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“I and the Father are one” proves the Trinity?

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
How does Jesus saying that he and the Father are one in agreement , in unity, prove the trinity ideology?

The theme of the saying from Jesus is that the desire that the people of God should also be in agreement, in unity with each other.

If Jesus and God make a trinity, what does that make the millions of people of God?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
to all,

I and the Father are "ONE" is true. yes, in the ECHAD of ONE Person. people u need to Learn the ECHAD of One if you will ever understand God as One. else you will be deceived. the ECHAD of God answer all biblical question concerning God.

101G.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
If anyone actually has any real interest in the Catholic teaching, understanding of the Trinity,
it may be found here;

The creed likewise repeats this baptismal and doxological order of the divine persons. The Church professes her faith in the same way that she renders glory: “We believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church (§249) explains:

From the beginning, the revealed truth of the Holy Trinity has been at the very root of the Church’s living faith, principally by means of Baptism. It finds its expression in the rule of baptismal faith, formulated in the preaching, catechesis and prayer of the Church. Such formulations are already found in the apostolic writings, such as this salutation taken up in the Eucharistic liturgy: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Cor 13:13; cf. 1 Cor 12:4–6; Ep 4:4–6).​
It is necessary here, however, to recall this: to explore the witness of the revelation of the Trinity in the New Testament does not consist in a simple inventory of biblical verses. It is necessary first and foremost to survey the profound movement of revelation, understood as a whole in its various harmonies. The New Testament offers many complementary “paths” for understanding the revelation of the Trinity. We will briefly consider two of them here.

St. Peter explains that “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst . . . God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death” (Acts 2:22–24); and a little further on: “This Jesus God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the Holy Spirit who was promised, he has poured out this which you see and hear” (Acts 2:32–33). St. Peter concludes: “Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified” (Acts 2:36).

In this preaching, St. Peter begins with the man Jesus (“this Jesus”) and with what Jesus accomplished, then he recalls his death on the cross, in order to lead to the proclamation of his glorious resurrection. The life of Jesus culminates in his exaltation. St. Peter underscores the newness that this exaltation brings. The resurrection is an event in which three agents act: Jesus, God (ho Theos, identified as the Father), and the Holy Spirit. The Three are named in their distinction. The paschal exaltation of Jesus places in full view his vivifying power and his unity with the Father: “God has made him both Lord and Christ.”
 

101G

Well-Known Member
St. Peter explains that “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst . . . God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death” (Acts 2:22–24); and a little further on: “This Jesus God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the Holy Spirit who was promised, he has poured out this which you see and hear” (Acts 2:32–33). St. Peter concludes: “Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified” (Acts 2:36).
if this is the ... "best guide to understanding the Trinity". I have a question concerning the segment above. if God raised up the Lord Jesus body, why then did the Lord Jesus said he will raise up his own body? see John 2:18-22

101G.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I have a question concerning the segment above. if God raised up the Lord Jesus body, why then did the Lord Jesus said he will raise up his own body? see John 2:18-22

* [2:17] Ps 69:10, changed to future tense to apply to Jesus.

* [2:19] This saying about the destruction of the temple occurs in various forms (Mt 24:2; 27:40; Mk 13:2; 15:29; Lk 21:6; cf. Acts 6:14). Mt 26:61 has: “I can destroy the temple of God…”; see note there. In Mk 14:58, there is a metaphorical contrast with a new temple: “I will destroy this temple made with hands and within three days I will build another not made with hands.” Here it is symbolic of Jesus’ resurrection and the resulting community (see Jn 2:21 and Rev 21:2). In three days: an Old Testament expression for a short, indefinite period of time; cf. Hos 6:2.

The Gospel according to John is quite different in character from the three synoptic gospels. It is highly literary and symbolic. It does not follow the same order or reproduce the same stories as the synoptic gospels. To a much greater degree, it is the product of a developed theological reflection and grows out of a different circle and tradition. It was probably written in the 90s of the first century.

Other difficulties for any theory of eyewitness authorship of the gospel in its present form are presented by its highly developed theology and by certain elements of its literary style. For instance, some of the wondrous deeds of Jesus have been worked into highly effective dramatic scenes (Jn 9); there has been a careful attempt to have these followed by discourses that explain them (Jn 5; 6); and the sayings of Jesus have been woven into long discourses of a quasi-poetic form resembling the speeches of personified Wisdom in the Old Testament.

The fourth gospel is not simply history; the narrative has been organized and adapted to serve the evangelist’s theological purposes as well. Among them are the opposition to the synagogue of the day and to John the Baptist’s followers, who tried to exalt their master at Jesus’ expense, the desire to show that Jesus was the Messiah, and the desire to convince Christians that their religious belief and practice must be rooted in Jesus. Such theological purposes have impelled the evangelist to emphasize motifs that were not so clear in the synoptic account of Jesus’ ministry, e.g., the explicit emphasis on his divinity.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
If anyone actually has any real interest in the Catholic teaching, understanding of the Trinity,
it may be found here;

The creed likewise repeats this baptismal and doxological order of the divine persons. The Church professes her faith in the same way that she renders glory: “We believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church (§249) explains:


It is necessary here, however, to recall this: to explore the witness of the revelation of the Trinity in the New Testament does not consist in a simple inventory of biblical verses. It is necessary first and foremost to survey the profound movement of revelation, understood as a whole in its various harmonies. The New Testament offers many complementary “paths” for understanding the revelation of the Trinity. We will briefly consider two of them here.

St. Peter explains that “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst . . . God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death” (Acts 2:22–24); and a little further on: “This Jesus God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the Holy Spirit who was promised, he has poured out this which you see and hear” (Acts 2:32–33). St. Peter concludes: “Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified” (Acts 2:36).

In this preaching, St. Peter begins with the man Jesus (“this Jesus”) and with what Jesus accomplished, then he recalls his death on the cross, in order to lead to the proclamation of his glorious resurrection. The life of Jesus culminates in his exaltation. St. Peter underscores the newness that this exaltation brings. The resurrection is an event in which three agents act: Jesus, God (ho Theos, identified as the Father), and the Holy Spirit. The Three are named in their distinction. The paschal exaltation of Jesus places in full view his vivifying power and his unity with the Father: “God has made him both Lord and Christ.”
How does Jesus act in the resurrection?

You rightly say that GOD is identified as the Father - which kills all other arguments about GOD as a trinity!!

God commands for Jesus to be resurrected and HIS Spirit ACTS to PUT BACK the spirit of Jesus into the body of Jesus: a resurrection!

Jesus plays no active part in the resurrection, ‘He’ is acted upon: ‘God raised up this Jesus to which we are witnesses’!! (Act 2:32)

Then GOD raised Jesus into Heaven. Jesus did not raise himself into Heaven.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
* [2:17] Ps 69:10, changed to future tense to apply to Jesus.

* [2:19] This saying about the destruction of the temple occurs in various forms (Mt 24:2; 27:40; Mk 13:2; 15:29; Lk 21:6; cf. Acts 6:14). Mt 26:61 has: “I can destroy the temple of God…”; see note there. In Mk 14:58, there is a metaphorical contrast with a new temple: “I will destroy this temple made with hands and within three days I will build another not made with hands.” Here it is symbolic of Jesus’ resurrection and the resulting community (see Jn 2:21 and Rev 21:2). In three days: an Old Testament expression for a short, indefinite period of time; cf. Hos 6:2.

The Gospel according to John is quite different in character from the three synoptic gospels. It is highly literary and symbolic. It does not follow the same order or reproduce the same stories as the synoptic gospels. To a much greater degree, it is the product of a developed theological reflection and grows out of a different circle and tradition. It was probably written in the 90s of the first century.

Other difficulties for any theory of eyewitness authorship of the gospel in its present form are presented by its highly developed theology and by certain elements of its literary style. For instance, some of the wondrous deeds of Jesus have been worked into highly effective dramatic scenes (Jn 9); there has been a careful attempt to have these followed by discourses that explain them (Jn 5; 6); and the sayings of Jesus have been woven into long discourses of a quasi-poetic form resembling the speeches of personified Wisdom in the Old Testament.

The fourth gospel is not simply history; the narrative has been organized and adapted to serve the evangelist’s theological purposes as well. Among them are the opposition to the synagogue of the day and to John the Baptist’s followers, who tried to exalt their master at Jesus’ expense, the desire to show that Jesus was the Messiah, and the desire to convince Christians that their religious belief and practice must be rooted in Jesus. Such theological purposes have impelled the evangelist to emphasize motifs that were not so clear in the synoptic account of Jesus’ ministry, e.g., the explicit emphasis on his divinity.
Nonsense. the language is clear, Listen, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." now his explanation, John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." this is plain and clear.

now the deciding factor, John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

if they REMEMBERED WHAT HE SAID, "why say Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."
this is the same Language, "The God of our Father", that Ananias of Damascus said about the Lord Jesus, listen. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

"The God of our Fathers?", which he was referring to JESUS. because it was the Lord Jesus who "Chose" Saul, later Paul on the road to Damascus. for the term "chosen" here in Acts 22:14 is the Greek term, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

and this same term was used in Paul's third account of the same even on his way to Damascus before king Agrippa, listen to Paul's account.
Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me." Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

the term "Make" here is the exact same Greek word us by Ananias, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

see, this word G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v. can be translated as "choose" or "Make". and the bible said, concerning what Ananias said, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee".

so without a doubt according to the bible, JESUS is the God of our fathers, meaning just as Peter said, Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."

JESUS is the God of OUR FATHERS.

101G.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Nonsense. the language is clear, Listen, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." now his explanation, John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." this is plain and clear.

now the deciding factor, John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

if they REMEMBERED WHAT HE SAID, "why say Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."
this is the same Language, "The God of our Father", that Ananias of Damascus said about the Lord Jesus, listen. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

"The God of our Fathers?", which he was referring to JESUS. because it was the Lord Jesus who "Chose" Saul, later Paul on the road to Damascus. for the term "chosen" here in Acts 22:14 is the Greek term, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

and this same term was used in Paul's third account of the same even on his way to Damascus before king Agrippa, listen to Paul's account.
Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me." Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

the term "Make" here is the exact same Greek word us by Ananias, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

see, this word G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v. can be translated as "choose" or "Make". and the bible said, concerning what Ananias said, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee".

so without a doubt according to the bible, JESUS is the God of our fathers, meaning just as Peter said, Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."

JESUS is the God of OUR FATHERS.

101G.
So you think ‘The God of our fathers’ raised up Jesus.

And Jesus is therefore ‘The God of our Fathers’?

And Jesus is the one who said to Jesus:
  • ‘You are my Son, this day I have become your Father!’
You are saying that Jesus is his own Father?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
So you think ‘The God of our fathers’ raised up Jesus.
GINOLJC, to all.
Not think, but 101G believe that JESUS, raised up his own body. do you?
And Jesus is therefore ‘The God of our Fathers’?
he is the God of our fathers as the Ordinal First in the ECHAD... (smile), don't you?
And Jesus is the one who said to Jesus:
  • ‘You are my Son, this day I have become your Father!’
Jesus as "LORD"/Father, the Ordinal First, in the ECHAD said to the EQUAL Share of himself in flesh, (as the ARM of God), the "Lord"/Son, YES, now listen carefully, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

DID YOU SEE IT? if not look again...... (smile).
You are saying that Jesus is his own Father?
is that biologically speaking NO, Spiritually YES. ......... (smile) ... Oh dear,,,, when will they learn.

let 101G school you naturally, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord." NOW, WAS PAUL TIMOTHY FATHER? .... BIOLOGIALLY? NO, SO PLEASE TELL US WHY PAUL CALLED TIMOTHY HIS SON?

1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel." DID PAUL HAVE SEX WITH ALL THESE PEPOLES MOTHER IN OIRDER TO BE BEGOTTEN BY HIM?

don't be silly.

101G.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
GINOLJC, to all.
Not think, but 101G believe that JESUS, raised up his own body. do you?

he is the God of our fathers as the Ordinal First in the ECHAD... (smile), don't you?

Jesus as "LORD"/Father, the Ordinal First, in the ECHAD said to the EQUAL Share of himself in flesh, (as the ARM of God), the "Lord"/Son, YES, now listen carefully, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

DID YOU SEE IT? if not look again...... (smile).

is that biologically speaking NO, Spiritually YES. ......... (smile) ... Oh dear,,,, when will they learn.

let 101G school you naturally, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord." NOW, WAS PAUL TIMOTHY FATHER? .... BIOLOGIALLY? NO, SO PLEASE TELL US WHY PAUL CALLED TIMOTHY HIS SON?

1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel." DID PAUL HAVE SEX WITH ALL THESE PEPOLES MOTHER IN OIRDER TO BE BEGOTTEN BY HIM?

don't be silly.

101G.
You are very clever. I dop my hat to your ingenuousness.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
You are very clever. I dop my hat to your ingenuousness.
just truthful... you need to try it. 101G just believe the Lord Jesus, (who cannot LIE), at what he say and how he say it.

anyone who deny his teaching is anti Christ.

101G.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
just truthful... you need to try it. 101G just believe the Lord Jesus, (who cannot LIE), at what he say and how he say it.

anyone who deny his teaching is anti Christ.

101G.
Amazing!
 

101G

Well-Known Member
101G believe that many misunderstand that God is one person who is Spirit, who was shared in a body of Human flesh. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

here "the express image of his person" means the exact character or the exact same characteristics. for the term "Son" means character G5207, huios. this is why we who are of God, (born of him), are called sons of God because of our character or the exact same characteristics of him in us.

a son of God is not biological nature, but in character. this is why God is called the Holy Spirit, for Holy is his character, and Spirit is his NATURE.

we ... who are born of God, is destine for the same...like God, meaning his sons. for every son should be like his FATHER.

101G.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Nonsense. the language is clear, Listen, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." now his explanation, John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." this is plain and clear.
Keep in mind the entire NT is composed within post resurrection faith. What the authors claim is to happen has already happened.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Other references to 3:13 ;
i. [3:13] 1:18; 6:62; Dn 7:13; Rom 10:6; Eph 4:9.
Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

now a little something for YOU from Daniel
Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

now the Ancient of days, description.
Daniel 10:5 "Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:"
Revelation 1:13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."

Daniel 7:9 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."
Revelation 1:14 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;"

Daniel 10:6 "His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude."
Revelation 19:12 "His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself."
Revelation 1:15 "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters."

Ancient of days is the Lord JESUS.
just a side note for your edification.

101G.
 
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