Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Rex_Admin said:I'm a little confused on the views that one can be punished for the actions of their ancestors (I.E. Original Sin (Adam & Eve).
Would someone care to explain to me the thought line on this?
Rex
That's how I was first taught it too, but I don't think that's what it really means.Rex_Admin said:I'm a little confused on the views that one can be punished for the actions of their ancestors (I.E. Original Sin (Adam & Eve).
Would someone care to explain to me the thought line on this?
Rex
But a "fault" tree was stuck in the middle of Eden?lilithu said:
When God created the world, He said "it is good," meaning that it was without fault.
The tree itself is not faulty. What was created was the potential for fault, not the actuality of it.Rex_Admin said:But a "fault" tree was stuck in the middle of Eden?
Why not start another.Jensa said:Deuteronomy 23:2 A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD
Is this on-topic enough to be explained in this thread, or should I start another thread for it?
Well there are better arguments against God's complete goodness than the story of the Fall. The existence of suffering is kinda hard to brush asside. In the book of Job, the God speeches kind of hint at the idea that God is beyond good and evil. And Dr. No recently quoted from Isaiah about God and evil in response to the tsunami.Rex_Admin said:And Lilith I was merely trying to argue the "God is all good" argument and the problems with that.
Cool, No*s. I think you've mentioned this before but I forgot. (Too many religions to keep straight!) I will remember next time.No*s said:In Orthodoxy, we don't believe Adam and Eve were created perfect, just innocent. When they had matured enough, they would have been given to eat of the Tree (or whatever it represents). However, they took the fruit early and began a rebellion against God.
It wasn't so much that God put it in there simply to test them, but it was meant to help them mature, and when they had reached maturity, it would be "legal," so to speak. That isn't the only reading, but it is the reading in Orthodoxy .
You assume I have sinned. :tsk:NetDoc said:There is no such thing as original sin as it's all been done before!
But really... you don't find the words "original sin" in the scriptures. Let's face it Rex, you didn't need any help to screw things up. You did it all by yourself and didn't need any help. Sin is like that. So are we.
Well I certainly have!Rex_Admin said:You assume I have sinned. :tsk:
Looking at the Alter translation ...SOGFPP said:It is not a "punishment", but a condition: ...
"I will terribly sharpen ..." This is a sentence, not the explanation of a consequence. YHWH's willingness to victimize the descendants is similarly reflected in Exodus 20:5; 34:7; Numbers 14:18; and Deuteronomy 5:9.Genesis 3:16-19
To the woman He said,"I will terribly sharpen your birth pangs,
in pain shall you bear children.
And for your man shall be your longing,
and he shall rule over you."And to the human He said,Because you listened to the voice of your wife
and ate from the tree that I commanded you,
'You shall not eat of it,'
Cursed be the soil for your sake,
with pangs shall you eat from it all the days of your life..
Thorn and thistle shall it sprout for you
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow shall you eat bread
till you return to the soil,
for from there were you taken,
for dust you are
and to dust shall you return.
There is sin and then there is original sin. Sin is the actions that each of us do against God's will. For our sins, each of us will be punished (according to Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs), and that is what God was doing to Adam and Eve in the verses that you quote. But original sin is not a punishment; it is an inherited state or condition.Deut. 32.8 said:Looking at the Alter translation ...
"I will terribly sharpen ..." This is a sentence, not the explanation of a consequence. YHWH's willingness to victimize the descendants is similarly reflected in Exodus 20:5; 34:7; Numbers 14:18; and Deuteronomy 5:9.
lilithu said:Cool, No*s. I think you've mentioned this before but I forgot. (Too many religions to keep straight!) I will remember next time.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. Your "inherited state or condition" is God's (continuing) punishment for what Eve did.lilithu said:But original sin is not a punishment; it is an inherited state or condition.