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Revelations; Book of Prophecy or Historical Cryptography?

Is Revelations a book Of prophecy or historical cryptography?

  • Book Of Prophecy

    Votes: 12 36.4%

  • Historical Cryptography

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • Total voters
    33
M

may

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
May, while I agree that the time of the end is drawing near, I still contend that none of the Seal Judgements have yet begun, especially the sixth hasn't happened yet, so the 144,000 are not yet sealed:

Rev. 6: 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; andevery mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
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Yes, these critical last days have been a time of earthquakes—literal and figurative. (2 Timothy 3:1) But not one of these quakings is the final great shaking that John sees at the opening of the sixth seal. The time for advance tremors is ended. There now comes a great earthquake that is totally new to human experience. It is so great an earthquake that the upheavals and convulsions it causes cannot be measured by the Richter scale or by any other human gauge. This is no mere local shock but a cataclysmic shaking that devastates the entire "earth," that is, all depraved human society.
the opening of the sixth seal appears to disclose the culmination of all shakings of this earthly system of things—the great earthquake in which all humans opposed to Jehovah God’s sovereignty are destroyed., when the great earthquake strikes, this entire world system will be engulfed in the despair of total darkness. The bright, shining luminaries of Satan’s earthly system will send forth no ray of hope. Already today, earth’s political leaders, especially in Christendom, are notorious for their corruption, lying, and immoral lifestyle. (Isaiah 28:14-19) No longer can they be trusted. Their flickering light will go into total eclipse when Jehovah executes judgment. Their moonlike influence on earth’s affairs will be exposed as bloodied, death dealing. Their worldly superstars will be extinguished like plunging meteorites and scattered like unripe figs in a howling windstorm. Our entire globe will quake under a "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matthew 24:21)
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
May, while I agree that the time of the end is drawing near, I still contend that none of the Seal Judgements have yet begun, especially the sixth hasn't happened yet, so the 144,000 are not yet sealed:


quote]
Dramatic events unfold as the Lamb opens six of the seals. (6:1–7:17) As the first seal is opened, Christ appears on a white horse, receives a crown (in 1914), and goes forth conquering. So it has all been happening since 1914
Evidently, when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 19:7) The entire membership will be complete!—Romans 11:25, 26.
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joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
may said:
joeboonda said:
May, while I agree that the time of the end is drawing near, I still contend that none of the Seal Judgements have yet begun, especially the sixth hasn't happened yet, so the 144,000 are not yet sealed:


quote]
Dramatic events unfold as the Lamb opens six of the seals. (6:1–7:17) As the first seal is opened, Christ appears on a white horse, receives a crown (in 1914), and goes forth conquering. So it has all been happening since 1914
Evidently, when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 19:7) The entire membership will be complete!—Romans 11:25, 26.
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Here again I disagree. The white, red, black, and pale horses of the first four Seal Judgements are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, none of which is the Lord Jesus. Jesus does not come forth to defeat Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet and their followers until AFTER all the Seal, Bowl, and Trumpet Judgements, until after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at the END of the Great Seven Year Tribulation.
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M

may

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
may said:
Here again I disagree. The white, red, black, and pale horses of the first four Seal Judgements are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, none of which is the Lord Jesus. Jesus does not come forth to defeat Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet and their followers until AFTER all the Seal, Bowl, and Trumpet Judgements, until after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at the END of the Great Seven Year Tribulation.
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the ride has been ongoing since 1914 when Jesus recieved his kingship , and yes he is the one on the white horse , white denoting righteous warfare , yes its all happening in these the last days , and the ride goes on , we are well and truely in the Lords day since 1914, and the first thing that Jesus did when he was given great aurthority was to cast satan out of the heavens and his rebel followers ,( angels ) were cast out as well . yes Jesus is a warrior king and the ride goes on . make no mistake about it , many things in the book of revelation have been happening since 1914 especially when it comes to Gods people . But the son of man (Jesus christ) has not yet come on the clouds with his angels in glory . to judge the sheep and the goats on the earth this will happen after the tribulation starts , but the great tribulation is very close now , and the start of that great tribulation will be the end of babylon the great .(the worldwide empire of false religion). revelation 18;4 the other horses in the ride denote famine, war ,pestilence, death ,
 the red horse is manmade war, Not the righteous, victorious warfare of Jehovah’s conquering King but cruel, man-made, international warfare with needless bloodshed and pain. How appropriate that this rider is mounted on a fire-red horse! yes its all happening and the pale horse is ridden by DEATH this is what manmade warfare brings about , the same as famine and pestilence .
And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Hades was closely following him." (Revelation 6:8a) The rider of the last horse has a name: Death. He is the only one of the four horsemen of Apocalypse to reveal his identity so directly. Fittingly, Death rides a horse that is pale, since the word pale (Greek, khlo·ros´) is used in Greek literature to describe faces that are blanched, as if by disease. Also fittingly, Death is closely followed in some unexplained manner by Hades (gravedom), since Hades receives to itself the greater number of those who fall victim to the ravages of the fourth horseman. Happily, for these there will be a resurrection, when ‘death and Hades give up those dead in them.’ (Revelation 20:13)
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joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
may said:
joeboonda said:
the ride has been ongoing since 1914 when Jesus recieved his kingship , and yes he is the one on the white horse , white denoting righteous warfare , yes its all happening in these the last days , and the ride goes on , we are well and truely in the Lords day since 1914, and the first thing that Jesus did when he was given great aurthority was to cast satan out of the heavens and his rebel followers ,( angels ) were cast out as well . yes Jesus is a warrior king and the ride goes on . make no mistake about it , many things in the book of revelation have been happening since 1914 especially when it comes to Gods people . But the son of man (Jesus christ) has not yet come on the clouds with his angels in glory . to judge the sheep and the goats on the earth this will happen after the tribulation starts , but the great tribulation is very close now , and the start of that great tribulation will be the end of babylon the great .(the worldwide empire of false religion). revelation 18;4 the other horses in the ride denote famine, war ,pestilence, death ,
the red horse is manmade war, Not the righteous, victorious warfare of Jehovah’s conquering King but cruel, man-made, international warfare with needless bloodshed and pain. How appropriate that this rider is mounted on a fire-red horse! yes its all happening and the pale horse is ridden by DEATH this is what manmade warfare brings about , the same as famine and pestilence .
And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Hades was closely following him." (Revelation 6:8a) The rider of the last horse has a name: Death. He is the only one of the four horsemen of Apocalypse to reveal his identity so directly. Fittingly, Death rides a horse that is pale, since the word pale (Greek, khlo·ros´) is used in Greek literature to describe faces that are blanched, as if by disease. Also fittingly, Death is closely followed in some unexplained manner by Hades (gravedom), since Hades receives to itself the greater number of those who fall victim to the ravages of the fourth horseman. Happily, for these there will be a resurrection, when ‘death and Hades give up those dead in them.’ (Revelation 20:13)
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Ok, I guess we must simply agree to disagree. I do not believe the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalyps have been released yet nor in an invisible kingdom that started in 1914. I do believe we are very close to these things, though.
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M

may

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
may said:
Ok, I guess we must simply agree to disagree. I do not believe the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalyps have been released yet nor in an invisible kingdom that started in 1914. I do believe we are very close to these things, though.
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the bible does tell us that the kingdom will be heavenly Daniel 2;44
and it also tells us that it will be set up in the days of those kings ......... in other words it will be established in the heavens while human kings and rulers are STILL ruling ..........
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; Daniel 2;44 the reason it is not passed on to other people is because Jesus will be the ruler of it . and he will not die , human rulerships pass from person to person but this kingdom will last and stand forever. that is why Jesus will have 144,000 others with him who also will have immortality. but this kingdom will have subjects to reign over , and they will be a great crowd revelation 7;9-10
The apostle Peter summed up the wonderful hope of true Christians when he wrote: "There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." (2 Peter 3:13) The "new heavens" here promised refer to the new governing authority, the Messianic Kingdom. "The things in the heavens" mentioned by Paul in his letter to the Ephesians are to be gathered "in the Christ." They are the limited number of humans chosen to rule with Christ in the heavens. (1 Peter 1:3, 4) These 144,000 anointed Christians are "bought from the earth," "bought from among mankind," to be joint heirs with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom.—Revelation 5:9, 10; 14:3, 4; 2 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:11; 3:6. but of course they have to die first .
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wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Rev 16:13
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (John), and out of the mouth of the beast (Paulinsanity), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (Simon the stone [peter])....

 
joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
Rev 16:13
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (John), and out of the mouth of the beast (Paulinsanity), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (Simon the stone [peter])....
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bullfrogaloney
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
There is a big problem with Revelation; when Jesus spoke in the gospels, He spoke clearly and to the point. Even His parables were clear and concise. He did not speak in heavy symbolism. So then why would He give us Revelation, which is unclear, full of symbolism and makes very little sense? Sure, I can see how that symbolism could be translated, anyone could. But sometimes I wonder if it is even supposed to be there. It is probably the only book in the New Testament that leaves me more confused while the others clear up confusion. Are we 100% sure that John even wrote it?(I doubt we are). If John did write it, then why is it so different from his other writings?
I have read many times.
As to the question, my answer: I don't know.
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
ChristineES said:
If John did write it, then why is it so different from his other writings?
I have read many times.
As to the question, my answer: I don't know.
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As i might have said earlier it is a different John; if it is even written by a John, as the additions are where the name is added....
The style of writing is different, the teachings are against the gospel of John, as I just mentioned, as the gospel of John Nicodemus (Nicolaitans) is the doctrine of Balaam spoke of and it teaches like a dragon….which Yeshua also spoke against, with do not go after any who say “(I) EGO (AM) I-mee (Christ)”…

You might feel Yeshua spoke clearly, i do not, reason being i am using super computer with E-sword and many Bible translations to uncover symbiotic links, that are placed very cleverly together by Yeshua....

Revelations is the same as the rest of the Bible in symbolism, yet to understand this, you must first understand Balaam means God would not sacrifice.

Have you ever watched a film with a twist at the end, this is what is happening to you and the snare is placed to snap….so watch the whole thing again and you will see the points….
 
slabbey06

slabbey06

Bond-Servant of Christ
ChristineES said:
There is a big problem with Revelation; when Jesus spoke in the gospels, He spoke clearly and to the point. Even His parables were clear and concise. He did not speak in heavy symbolism. So then why would He give us Revelation, which is unclear, full of symbolism and makes very little sense? Sure, I can see how that symbolism could be translated, anyone could. But sometimes I wonder if it is even supposed to be there. It is probably the only book in the New Testament that leaves me more confused while the others clear up confusion. Are we 100% sure that John even wrote it?(I doubt we are). If John did write it, then why is it so different from his other writings?
I have read many times.
As to the question, my answer: I don't know.
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Revelation, like the rest of the Bible, needs to be interpreted in the context of the book itself, but also in the context of all of Scripture. The book makes SO much more sense and is actually very clear when one understands the OT and NT and the prophecies in it. For example, if one is familiar with the information God gave us on things to come in Daniel and Ezekiel, Revelation makes a lot more sense. I do believe 100% that the apostle John wrote the book, and that it is suppose to be there. As part of God's special revelation to us, I think it's important that we seek to understand what it is the Lord is communicating to us.
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
Rev 16:13
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (John), and out of the mouth of the beast (Paulinsanity), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (Simon the stone [peter])....
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Satan’s "unclean inspired expressions," clearly symbolizing propaganda designed to maneuver all human rulers, "kings," into opposition to Jehovah God. ............... its all happening in these the last days . since 1914 when Jesus took up his kingship Daniel 7;13-14
and those kings will be firmly on Satan’s side when "the war of the great day of God the Almighty" begins.
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
ChristineES said:
There is a big problem with Revelation; when Jesus spoke in the gospels, He spoke clearly and to the point. Even His parables were clear and concise. He did not speak in heavy symbolism. So then why would He give us Revelation, which is unclear, full of symbolism and makes very little sense? Sure, I can see how that symbolism could be translated, anyone could. But sometimes I wonder if it is even supposed to be there. It is probably the only book in the New Testament that leaves me more confused while the others clear up confusion. Are we 100% sure that John even wrote it?(I doubt we are). If John did write it, then why is it so different from his other writings?
I have read many times.
As to the question, my answer: I don't know.
Click to expand...
the reason why is because it is revealed to his slaves .
"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place." (Revelation 1:1a) So it was the resurrected Jesus Christ who received this weighty message from God. Far from being part of a mystic Trinity, Jesus is here shown to be subject to his Father. In the same way, the "slaves" making up the Christian congregation are subject to Jesus Christ, so that they ‘keep following him wherever he goes.’ (Revelation 14:4; Ephesians 5:24) But who today are truly "slaves" of God, ..................... matthew 24;45-47 As we can see they are faithful ones who have passed the test of faithfulness, and these are the ones that Jesus is revealing or uncovering many things in the book of revelation to. its all happening in this the time of the end . looking to the right channel brings understanding indeed . Jesus only reveals to one faithful channel , and it is up to us as individuals to find that channel ....................... and yes i have found it :)
God had a channel for communicating Revelation in John’s day, and John was the earthly part of that channel. Likewise, God has a channel for giving spiritual nourishment to his ‘slaves’ today. In his great prophecy concerning the conclusion of the system of things, Jesus identified the earthly part of this channel as "the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time." (Matthew 24:3, 45-47) He uses this John class in unlocking the meaning of the prophecy.................. and it is thrilling indeed .
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
The war is already won before it started and you have lost my peace with you....you are full of your own Ego (Satan).
1) Mother of all harlots is something that doesn’t worship God, and drinks blood (wine) of dead prophets….
2) Its children are all the churches that learned from them frogs (Paul, John, Simon), that is the beast, as it is the same metal empire (Rome).
3) All nations follow it….Microchips are being implemented to trade with, yet National insurance number is a mark….the other mark is from angels or life, and those who have crows feet have let the worries of this world effect them, and so lost the child within them…..eagles brows have a chance.
4) According to scripture it will be burned (1/3 removed) and Christ, who is the instigator of this idea to remove people, who are unclean to shorten the days of ungodliness (Also this is explained clearly in the apocalypse of Abraham, like in Zechariah or Isaiah).
5) Revelation chapter 10 is me and the small book is the Tao Te-Ching. So when we speak of many nation and kings as one....where are you going??....by the way the new name of Christ is Sananda….
Please don’t post your lies at us May, some of us want enlightenment, not war!
Armageddon = Megiddo = “those who shout out”

So if you want war May fight scripture with me, it is what is written to happen….yet it is soft clay and you have no foundations….if the law comes out of Zian, didn’t you notice that some of us would be born? :angel2:
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
Please don’t post your lies at us May, some of us want enlightenment, not war!


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those in opposition say that Gods people speak lies , even though Gods people speak truth inline with the bible . those who really want to be enlightened will hear Jesus voice and respond to the GOODNEWS of the kingdom matthew 24;14 Daniel 2;44 but many say they want to be enlightened but really they want it on their terms. but Jesus sheep respond and become a GREAT CROWD REVELATION 7;9-10 Yes its all happening in this time of the end . do not put your trust in manmade things that will never bring true peace , because it will be a counterfiet thing . follow the right channel and enlightenment will be abundant matthew 24;45-47 Daniel 12;4 :)
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
may said:
those in opposition say that Gods people speak lies , even though Gods people speak truth inline with the bible .
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Yeh there is one God...you use multiple???
How can you argue with an angel, who can verify globally his place in heaven.....best not argue with him else you might already be removed for being naked.....so lets start again, will give you one last chance to be nice and will help you understand the law out of Zian.....
Otherwise i will have to ignore you, as your behaviour is unacceptable....
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
So if you want war May fight scripture with me
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Daniel 2;44............. matthew 24;14 the heavenly kingdom has been established, and this is GOODNEWS indeed , and Jesus has recieved his kingship Daniel 7;13-14 and those who are inline with the purpose of God are making it known ,REVELATION 7;9-10
​
(Matthew 6:10) Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.
(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,.......................... ITS ALL HAPPENING
(Isaiah 52:7) How comely upon the mountains are the feet of the one bringing good news, the one PUBLISHING PEACE the one bringing GOODNEWS of something better, the one PUBLISHING SALVATION the one saying to Zion: "Your God has become king!"
(Revelation 12:10) And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!
 
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