Was Jesus A Gnostic?

A. Ben-Shema said:

You don't seem to understand the difference between 'Jesus' (i.e. the 'man', who lived & died 2,000 yrs ago), and the 'Logos' (the Divine & Eternal Spirit of Truth which entered the 'man' Jesus at his Baptism / Initiation, and which thus made him a CHRIST = a 'Spiritually' Anointed One).

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Jesus was always the Christ and always has been there is no other, the Christ spirit did not enter him at His baptism - look at the words of an angel:

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Thanks for your generosity. I wonder what you would call them?

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Wrong.

And who is blind? :cover:

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one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. (John 9:25)

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
He is blind who has not believed the glorious Gospel of Christ

The true and original etymology is precisely as I have previously explained (i.e. Israel = 'those who see/know God' = genuine Gnostics). If you prefer to believe the 'orthodox' worldly ('Pharisee') etymology, that is your business.

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It makes the most sense from scripture, I am bound by my conscience to the Word of god.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The first century Jewish Mystic Philo Judaeus of Alexandria (a contemporary of Jesus) points this out in his writings.

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I would take anything that comes out of alexandria with a pinch of salt.

Gen 32:30 "because I (Jacob, thus renamed 'ISRAEL') saw God face to face, my life was spared.”
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

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A. Ben-Shema said:

Sonic, I am still awaiting your reply.

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A. Ben-Shema said:

What ARE you saying? The Spirit NEVER changes - it is ETERNAL and CHANGELESS - it is TRUTH!



This is the false teaching of Paul - the author of Christianity. The religion would be better called Paulism.

Jesus had authority to forgive sins while living, without the necessity of His death:
Matt 9:5-6 "Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ."

It seems also that Jesus bestowed this authority to His initiated disciples:
John 20:22-23 "And with that he [Jesus] breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

What say ye?

Peace & Love

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Yəhošafat;881444 said:

Gnostics were a Christian problem, not a Jewish problem. Jesus was seen as a radical Jewish Rabbi, and a flase messiah by the Jews- never a gnostic.

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Yəhošafat;881444 said:

The Gnostic Jesus is the product of the early Christian gnostics twisting the story of Jesus.

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UnityNow101 said:

You absolutely MUST seperate his human nature from the Deity. There is really no way around it. There is a reason why people say that He is a 50/50 split between human and Divine. Jesus had to grow in knowledge and in favor with God. He did not begin His mission until He was around 30 years old. This was by the Will of God, not His own will. If He was God, would He have begun His mission a little earlier? Or did He have to grow in favor with God and learn the things which He taught to humanity? Chances are He had to learn such things, whether from the religious teachers or God.

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UnityNow101 said:

He also did not come to be worshipped, but to turn the people's hearts towards God, His Father. Jesus was a man, the Christ, or annointed of God, who taught the people of Israel the true faith of Judaism where the Law is written upon the heart. He freed the people from the dogmas of the time and taught that love is the basis of the Law. The people of that time were wise in the Law of Moses, but ignorant of true love. They ridiculed those sent to them by God, including Jesus. They put the body of Jesus to death, for they seen Him as a threat to their power. He rose, whether spritually or phyically to Heaven. Which one really makes no difference. The Christ Spirit was not put to death upon the cross.

That in no way lowers Jesus unless you believe that Jesus is God Almighty. Otherwise, it is simply a teaching that Jesus came to GLORIFY God, not to glorify Himself. He taught the things of God, not the teachings of His own creation.

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Popeyesays said:

To believe in the Son of Man is not an act of worship.





Thomas said, My Lord and My God as an exclamation, not to worship Jesus as God. How many times does one say "My Lord!" in amazement? It's not worship, nor a claim that the object of amazement is God in person.





Darby:
"50And he led them out as far as Bethany, and having lifted up his hands, he blessed them.

51And it came to pass as he was blessing them, he was separated from them and was carried up into heaven.
52And *they*, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. "

Young's Literal:
"50And he led them forth without -- unto Bethany, and having lifted up his hands he did bless them,

51and it came to pass, in his blessing them, he was parted from them, and was borne up to the heaven;
52and they, having bowed before him, did turn back to Jerusalem with great joy, 53and were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

And this does not cover the concept that the object was worship of GOD, as the followers returned to the Temple and did just that.





Darby
8And going out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, they ran to bring his disciples word.

9And as they went to bring his disciples word, behold also, Jesus met them, saying, Hail! And they coming up took him by the feet, and did him homage. 10Then Jesus says to them, Fear not; go, bring word to my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there they shall see me.

Young's Literal:
"8And having gone forth quickly from the tomb, with fear and great joy, they ran to tell to his disciples;

9and as they were going to tell to his disciples, then lo, Jesus met them, saying, `Hail!' and they having come near, laid hold of his feet, and did bow to him. 10Then saith Jesus to them, `Fear ye not, go away, tell to my brethren that they may go away to Galilee, and there they shall see me.'

Main Entry: hom·age
Pronunciation: 'ä-mij, 'hä-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French homage, omage, from home man, vassal, from Latin homin-, homo human being; akin to Old English guma human being, Latin humus earth -- more at [SIZE=-1]HUMBLE[/SIZE]
1 a : a feudal ceremony by which a man acknowledges himself the vassal of a lord b : the relationship between a feudal lord and his vassal c : an act done or payment made in meeting the obligations of vassalage
2 a : expression of high regard : [SIZE=-1]RESPECT[/SIZE] -- often used with pay b : something that shows respect or attests to the worth or influence of another : [SIZE=-1]TRIBUTE[/SIZE] <his long life filled with international homages to his unique musical talent -- People>
synonym see [SIZE=-1]HONOR[/SIZE]







Young's Literal:

"

16And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them,
17and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver.
18And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, `Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;
19having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'

Darby:
"

16But the eleven disciples went into Galilee to the mountain which Jesus had appointed them.
17And when they saw him, they did homage to him: but some doubted.
18And Jesus coming up spoke to them, saying, All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth.
19Go [therefore] and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; 20teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined you. And behold, *I* am with you all the days, until the completion of the age. "


In short the Greek language distinguishes nuances between "worship", "bow down" and "homage" It's a shame the translators of the King James did not honor the nuance.

Regards,
Scott

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A. Ben-Shema said:

What ARE you saying? The Spirit NEVER changes - it is ETERNAL and CHANGELESS - it is TRUTH!



This is the false teaching of Paul - the author of Christianity. The religion would be better called Paulism.

Jesus had authority to forgive sins while living, without the necessity of His death:
Matt 9:5-6 "Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ."

It seems also that Jesus bestowed this authority to His initiated disciples:
John 20:22-23 "And with that he [Jesus] breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

What say ye?

Peace & Love

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