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Sinners in the hands of an angry God

Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Since this is what many of the debates here are about I thought it would make sense to put a thread about this sermon here instead of comparitive religion,- this is the sermon by Jonathan Edwards- http://edwards.yale.edu/images/pdf/sinners.pdf , this is a pretty classic sermon, I even remember reading some of it in a literature book in school which was anything but Christian, but here is the whole thing, what are you're thoughts on it?
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I think it does a great disservice to the meaning of Christianity, blaspheming the Gospel itself by associating it with this man's fear and hatred, and calling out and appealing to the most banal sort of egotism.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
Interesting article, but this website. :eek:

Full of hate if you take of the /sinners.htm part of it.
 
Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Wandered Off said:
It's an amoral message of threats: "Behave or else."
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If he knew that it was true then it wouldn't be amoral, whoever believes there really is a hell is obligated to tell others, otherwise they don't really believe or they are implying that they don't really care about that other person.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
doppelgänger;882356 said:
Yikes. I can see why the author of the site likes this particular sermon and keeps a copy of it around though . . .. :eek:
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I've encountered the website before, it is a scary piece of work and what scares me is that so many people believe that way! :run:
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
** MOD POST **

To get this topic back on track, I changed the link in the OP to another site that has the same sermon text.
​
 
Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
I'm not really worried about the website, but I do worry about what Jonathan Edwards said about people- they are not planning on going to hell but will one day find themselves there and wish they could go back, It's not something I like to bring up but I also don't want anyone to go there.
 
Bishka

Bishka

Veteran Member
doppelgänger;882368 said:
** MOD POST **

To get this topic back on track, I changed the link in the OP to another site that has the same sermon text.
​
Click to expand...

Thanks dopp.
 
Wandered Off

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
Sonic247 said:
If he knew that it was true then it wouldn't be amoral, whoever believes there really is a hell is obligated to tell others, otherwise they don't really believe or they are implying that they don't really care about that other person.
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I didn't mean that messenger is amoral, but that the message itself is an amoral appeal to consequences. I view morality as looking beyond your own self interest in your choices. This, on the other hand, is aimed directly at our basest instincts. As a method of ensuring obedience, it's tyranny. "Rule through fear" is an ethically bankrupt system.
 
Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
And what is scary about it is that every breath that every person has is given by God, all God has to do is let go and aperson will fall.

Another thing implied is, that they are liable to fall of themselves, without being thrown down by the hand of another; as he that stands or walks on slippery ground needs nothing but his own weight to throw him down.
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On the one hand I wish I wasn't born into sin in the first place, on the other I know I have in fact sinned and that it would serve me right to be punished by God.
 
joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
The sermon that began the Great Awakening! Men gripped their pews as if Hell were pulling them in, and cried allowed for mercy. Wails and cries for mercy could be heard throughout the town all that night and 500 people were saved, igniting a revival that ushered thousands into the Kingdom. Of all the sermons Edwards wrote, only a dozen were of this type, and he never rose his voice or gestured with his arms, but spoke calmly and evenly and let the Spirit convict the lost. Edwards was a brilliant man, I put a post about him in the thread about Hell being eternal or not. The website I got was The Jonathon Edwards Center from Yale, is that not correct? What's so bad about Yale? Oh, well, good sermon though.

Jude 1:23
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
 
Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Wandered Off said:
I didn't mean that messenger is amoral, but that the message itself is an amoral appeal to consequences. I view morality as looking beyond your own self interest in your choices. This, on the other hand, is aimed directly at our basest instincts. As a method of ensuring obedience, it's tyranny. "Rule through fear" is an ethically bankrupt system.
Click to expand...
But if it is something that in reality should be feared then the consequences would come despite moral objections, the catch in this is that the things to fear are caused by ourselves, even though we are born with a sin nature we have made the choice ourself to do what is wrong, and because we judge others and don't forgive them for what they do when we consider it wrong God is fair to judge us by our own standard.
 
Buttercup

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Sonic247 said:
And what is scary about it is that every breath that every person has is given by God, all God has to do is let go and aperson will fall.
Click to expand...
Why did he create us? For his own sadistic amusement? To see how many of us stupid ants he can fry up with his collossal sized magnifying glass?

I'm thinking the Christian god portrayed by some has an enormous inferiority complex. He needs counseling immediately.
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Sonic247 said:
But if it is something that in reality should be feared then the consequences would come despite moral objections, the catch in this is that the things to fear are caused by ourselves, even though we are born with a sin nature we have made the choice ourself to do what is wrong, and because we judge others and don't forgive them for what they do when we consider it wrong God is fair to judge us by our own standard.
Click to expand...

Except, of course, that it is the concretization of mythology. There's no reason to think it's anything other than metaphor mistakenly stuck in people's faces.

I have concluded the Great Mickey Von Stubring is going to eat your flesh if you don't stop worshiping the false Christian "God" and Jesus. I am now morally obligated not to respect anything you have to say about your own life or your own perspective.

Bleccch . . . .

The method of chanting a revenge fantasy to people who don't ape a particular dogma, doctrine or worship some other creation of images or words is "faith" at its most base, delusional and disgusting in my opinion . . . it does far more to blaspheme its would-be subject, and create defensiveness and divisiveness, than it does to share the meaning of the faith.
 
Sonic247

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
Why did he create us? For his own sadistic amusement? To see how many of us stupid ants he can fry up with his collossal sized magnifying glass?

I'm thinking the Christian god portrayed by some has an enormous inferiority complex. He needs counseling immediately.
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He doesn't want people to go to hell, but do you think heaven is a place of theives, murderers, adulterers ect. Hell is their naturaul habitat, and their own weight pulls them down into it. Like I said I wish I wasn't born into it, but I know I have sinned and done wrong and that their is judgement for it. It's peoples own destruction that they fall into, they dig a pit and then fall into it, they are angry at God and others and eventually God's wrath comes to them. Jesus took the wrath of God upon himself on the cross that is why anyone can be forgiven, but if they don't believe then they only have themselves and every day we are closer to death.
 
Buttercup

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Sonic247 said:
He doesn't want people to go to hell, but do you think heaven is a place of theives, murderers, adulterers ect. Hell is their naturaul habitat, and their own weight pulls them down into it. Like I said I wish I wasn't born into it, but I know I have sinned and done wrong and that their is judgement for it.
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I understand your thinking Sonic, I was in the same place for years myself. :)

No thief deserves eternal punishment. That's just plain mean.

No adulterer deserves eternal torment. That's overkill big time.

You sincerely believe that's appropriate punishment from a God that claims to love us unconditionally?
 
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