But that sounds like this "conditioned being" is the image of God (the Platonian demiurge), rather than God. Does that jive with what you understand?
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Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
It is the Pali Text I quoted, and the closest thing we have to what the buddha said. And the quote says that there is an Uncreated, Unconstrained or else nothing Created and constrained can exist.
Sounds like God (Creator) to me.
Regards,
Scott
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
What I understand is that in Buddhist scriptures, Brahma, who is the Creator deity in Hinduism, talks to the Buddha. It is Brahma that convinces the Buddha to go out and preach the Dharma, when the Buddha is uncertain that anyone will "get it." Brahma points out that "there are those with only a little dust in their eyes."
Beyond that, it gets tricky because the Brahma who talked to the Buddha is both the same as but also not the same as the Brahma that is the Creator part of the Hindu trinity now. What I mean is, just because the deity is still called Brahma and he is still considered the Creator doesn't mean that what people meant by Brahma back when the Buddhist scriptures were written is the same as what people mean by Brahma now.
It may be that at the time the scriptures were written, Brahma was like Zeus, clearly a conditioned being in that he had a beginning. But Brahma now is more like God the Father for some Hindus. Whereas for others, Brahman is like Tillich's ground of being. So would the Buddha now say that god is a conditioned being, or would he say that God is the Unconditioned? Honestly, I think he would say that there are more pressing matters to attend to than asking these questions.
Yes, you could argue that the Buddha warned against attachment to the image of God because it gets in the way of true "God." But one could also say that any concept of God at all is an image of God.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
You can interpret it however you want, just know that the Uncreated, Unconstrained, Unconditioned.... is not a being of any kind.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Well Rojse, this is not true if you analyze even other major religion such as Buddhism and Hinduism they do have god(s) and haven. Even though they have something in common such as reincarnation, they do claim haven and hell. As I said before Hinduism has contradictory thoughts on god, their old scriptures that they call Vedas say god is one but some claim it as several. If you see them, they have separated gods for each action, for creation, sustenance , destruction and so on. I have a doubt, perhaps they would have misunderstood, because Islam claims that god (allah) is having 99 other names. In that creator, sustainer, etc comes as separate names for Allah. Perhaps as time passed on people would have misunderstood teaching of earlier prophets (according to Islam more than hundred thousand prophet came after Adam to every nation till last prophet Mohamed- so Indian subcontinent certainly would have got prophets) and may be thought that these names were separate gods. Reincarnation is in fact getting the life back which is something like getting the life back on the day of judgment, Hinduism also claim about the Day of Judgment and clearly says the punishments on evildoers. The difference is Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not believe in rebirth in this world bud Buddhism and Hinduism believe in this. This is in fact take us to a confusion; it doesnt clearly say when people will be reborn here & when they will go to haven or hell. These are two different thoughts as both not possible at once. However the claims made by their main books (i.e Vedas) one god, haven and hell, day of judgments, last prophet (sage) are in fact coincide specially with Islam. In fact some Hindu scholar such as Prof. Pundit Vaid Parkash giving evidence on Hinduisms monotheistic thoughts and its direction towards Islam from oldest scriptures. Pundit Vaid Parkash is a Brahman Hindu and a well known Sanskrit scholar and research worker.
If you take Buddhism for instance, it also believes in god, if I put it right way -gods, but what their reference as gods are different from other religions referrence. It is similar to those who go to haven. The one who goes to hell is devil. In other words man having three option based on his deed. Again returning to this world as any kind of creature, second going to hell or haven, third attaining Nirvana (you can say disappearing as nothing). But only reincarnation & Nirvana is widely talked among Buddhist and other aspect is not widely spoken. If you read their scriptures its existence is clear. However about a creator its silent. But if you read their cycle form of explanation for birth, the need for a supernatural power (that we call god) exist. Take for example two person, one had done good deed and another done enough evil deed, after their death the one who did good will be born as a superior being than the evildoer, if so what decides their direction?, I mean directing the good to superior being and other to inferior being, who programmed such rules, these are not answered in it. On the other hand by looking at the things on our surrounding (let it be galaxy or atom) formation of such by chance is impossible, how they were created is not answered in Buddhism. By intellectual thinking we can conclude that a supernatural power is inevitable for such to occur.
Another point like most of the religion both Hinduism and Buddhism lacks integrity on its scriptures as they were written several hundred years after the original preacher (most believe first book is Suttanipata in pali thripitaka or pali canon) so there is a chance for information destruction from the originator, mean time both are evolving religion which means in-between addition is acceptable. This is the reason I see to have two different thoughts in them. Interesting to note in Hinduism and Buddhism it has told on last prophet, both claim on a person that will be coming in last days, in Hinduism the name given as Mahaaamad or kalki in their Vedas, and Buddha named him as Mythriya . I do see similarities with Buddhism and Hinduism with other religion once the contradictory part been removed. According to my knowledge all these contradictions are solved in the last religion that I believe i.e Islam.
So if you analyze them deeply you may arrive at more accurate list than you have submitted. The idea is to find the right one for the time that we live. I never say which is best religion; because teachings of religion make people good in their deeds. The point is which religion the creator accepts right now is the question to be answered. We see by the complexes engineering of our nature some supernatural power should exist to create it. If There is a creator certainly his message should be there, isnt?
Another point like most of the religion both Hinduism and Buddhism lacks integrity on its scriptures as they were written several hundred years after the original preacher (most believe first book is Suttanipata in pali thripitaka or pali canon) so there is a chance for information destruction from the originator, mean time both are evolving religion which means in-between addition is acceptable. This is the reason I see to have two different thoughts in them. Interesting to note in Hinduism and Buddhism it has told on last prophet, both claim on a person that will be coming in last days, in Hinduism the name given as Mahaaamad or kalki in their Vedas, and Buddha named him as Mythriya . I do see similarities with Buddhism and Hinduism with other religion once the contradictory part been removed. According to my knowledge all these contradictions are solved in the last religion that I believe i.e Islam.
So if you analyze them deeply you may arrive at more accurate list than you have submitted.
The idea is to find the right one for the time that we live. I never say which is best religion; because teachings of religion make people good in their deeds. The point is which religion the creator accepts right now is the question to be answered. We see by the complexes engineering of our nature some supernatural power should exist to create it. If There is a creator certainly his message should be there, isnt?Well, to answer these posts Ill write under following heading;
- Jesus is NITHER god NOR son of god
- Reason why I do not accept Pauls teaching
- Is comforter holy Ghost
- The reason why I believe comforter is Mohamed
1. Jesus is NITHER son of god NOR god
Jesus says about himself as son of man in several places for example
"when the son of man (Jesus pbuh referring to himself) shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye (the disciples) also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19: 28).
In another place
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the son of man (referring to himself) hath not where to lay his head. (Matthew 8: 20 also repeated in Luke 9: 58 )
the son problem arrived I think simply because Christianity accepts it in its literal sense due to foreign myth (Greek), the fact is the prophets and pious people called by the word son of god by people. In other words this indicate the close relationship with god due to their goodness.
This is clear from following.
And you shall say to pharaoh, thus says the lord, Israel is my first born son (exodus 4:22)
.for I am a father to Israel and ephraim is my first born (jeremiah 31:9)
This is clear from following.
And you shall say to pharaoh, thus says the lord, Israel is my first born son (exodus 4:22)
.for I am a father to Israel and ephraim is my first born (jeremiah 31:9)
There are so many other places like this, calling others also son; in fact peacemakers are called sons of god
Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called sons of god. (matthew 5:9)
I believe Jesus place him self to this meaning, that is he says he is a son as others, its clear in John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.
I believe Jesus place him self to this meaning, that is he says he is a son as others, its clear in John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.
Mean time during Jesus period Greek myth was dominating among people. Zeus and Hercules kind of relationship were well taken among people. The meaning was relaxed to get the attention of Romans and this can analyze with the historical evidences.
More than this God should be pure from all acts that bring limitation, by giving birth to a child god becomes limited (as this is an instinct belong to creation). He is pure from these acts. Anything limited with need cannot be a god.
On the matter Jesus is god. Lets see in little detail.
People might consider Jesus as god due to two reasons.
1. His ability to predict future
2. His miracles.
2. His miracles.
We know before Jesus so many prophets came and they made prophecies. This doesnt mean that they are gods, mean time because of those prophecies we call them prophets, and since they brought the message of god, we call them messengers.
The reason behind the claim also cant be his miracles. Even other prophets and people did this.
§ Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fishes.- Elisha fed 100 people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44)
§ Jesus healed lepers- Elisha cured Naaman the leper (II Kings 5:14).
§ Jesus caused the blind to see- Elisha caused the blind to see (II Kings 6:17&20).
§ Jesus raised the dead- Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22). So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Even Elishas bones could restore the dead (II Kings 13:21).
§ Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fishes.- Elisha fed 100 people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44)
§ Jesus healed lepers- Elisha cured Naaman the leper (II Kings 5:14).
§ Jesus caused the blind to see- Elisha caused the blind to see (II Kings 6:17&20).
§ Jesus raised the dead- Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22). So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Even Elishas bones could restore the dead (II Kings 13:21).
Moreover Jesus himself submitted that people who have faith could do such things.
And he says to it, let there be never more fruit of thee for ever. And the fig-tree was immediately dried up. And when the deciples saw (it), how immediately the dried up! and jesus answering said to them, verily I say unto you, if ye have faith and do not doubt, not only SHALL YE DO what (is done) to the fig-tree, but even if ye should say to this mountain, be thou taken away and thou cast into the sea, it shell come to pass. (Mathew 21:19-21)
Therefore the above cannot be taken as proofs to believe that Jesus is god, mean time there are crystal clear evidence to say Jesus is not the god almighty from events and his own words.
First of all he had meals with others as normal man, this is a need for survival and god should be free from needs. Because god should not feel the hunger as normal creatures, if he get so, he is needy, how come god is in need?
but early in the morning as he came back in to the city, he hungerered(mattew 21:18)
In the Gospel according to Mark 13:31-32, Jesus is also reported to have denied having knowledge of when the final hour of this world would be, saying: Heaven and the earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away, but of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in the heaven nor the Son but the Father. One of the attributes of God is omniscience, knowledge of all things. Therefore, his denial of knowledge of the Day of Judgment is also a denial of divinity, for one who does not know the time of the final hour cannot possibly be God.
Again If we look at his own words, crystal clear Jesus is not the god.
Its clear from bible god is one Jesus and his disciples do not claimed on trinity.
Hear Israel: the lord our god is one loard: (mark 12:29)
in Matthew 19:17, Jesus responded to one who addressed him as O good master, saying: Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God. If he rejected being called good, and stated that only God is truly good, he clearly implies that he is not God.
Its clear from bible god is one Jesus and his disciples do not claimed on trinity.
Hear Israel: the lord our god is one loard: (mark 12:29)
in Matthew 19:17, Jesus responded to one who addressed him as O good master, saying: Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God. If he rejected being called good, and stated that only God is truly good, he clearly implies that he is not God.
In John 14:28, Jesus was saying: The Father is greater than I. By stating that the Father is greater than himself, Jesus distinguishes himself from God. Also in John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell his followers: I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God. Jesus reference to God as my Father and your Father further emphasizes the distinction between himself and God. Furthermore, by referring to God as his God, he left no room for anyone to intelligently claim that he was God.
Further more, Jesus said unnecessarily he will be worshiped due to some peoples teaching
"But in vain they do worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9).
Its better to analyze this a bit. No place in the bible Jesus own word states that either as worship me or I am god. However at a place he says worthlessly people will worship me due to commandments of men. Isnt this clear evidence to say he is not worth worshipping?
"But in vain they do worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9).
Its better to analyze this a bit. No place in the bible Jesus own word states that either as worship me or I am god. However at a place he says worthlessly people will worship me due to commandments of men. Isnt this clear evidence to say he is not worth worshipping?
2. Reason why I do not accept st.pauls teaching
You have highlighted with Pauls writing (Hebrews), but I am not convinced on his writing, Reason behind this is not my dislike over him. its very clear out of the men Jesus prophesied in (mathew 15,9) Paul is one such, simply because this contradicts the oneness of god, Jesus teaching & he also had problem with others.
He brought the concepts, trinity, etc. in other word first man to go against teaching of Jesus hence diluted with Greek concepts.
If you see clearly Paul had problem with others, James the head of the church and younger brother of Jesus considered Paul nothing better than a renegade and a polluted person. That was why he advised Paul to go and cleanse himself according to the Law of Moses.
If you see clearly Paul had problem with others, James the head of the church and younger brother of Jesus considered Paul nothing better than a renegade and a polluted person. That was why he advised Paul to go and cleanse himself according to the Law of Moses.
do therefore what we tell you. Advised James, we have four men under a vow; take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses (act 21:22-24)
After all how come a person not seen Jesus in his lifetime differ in concept with those who seen him? I see much different on the concept of god between old testament and new testament, mean time other disciples sayings about Jesus with Pauls writings.
3. Is the comforter the Holy Ghost?
You have stated the following as a proof to say comforter is the holy ghost,
But the Comforter, Which is The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14: 26)
The first question is this Holy Spirit really means holy prophet or Holy Ghost, because spirit is used in the bible for people and prophets too.
Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they are of God; because many false Prophets are gone out into the World.( John 4: 1)
This question is solved by considering the other places that mentioned on comforter.
Comforter will come once the jesus depart,
Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)
but holy ghost has come while jesus was there.hence this holy spirite cannot be holy ghost.
... and the Holy Ghost was upon him (Simeon). Luke 2:26
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him (Jesus). Luke 3:22
When jesus was accused by his own people, the Jews, that he was working in league with Beelzebub (the chief of the devils) to work his miracles, Jesus (pbuh) rhetorically questions them, "How can Satan cast out Satan?" The Jews imputed that this spirit of holiness - the Spirit of God - which was helping him, was devilish. So he gives them a dire warning:
... but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it shall never be forgiven
(Matthew 12:31)
this shows that holy ghost helping him to do his miracles.
mean time from my earlier post i am convinced that jesus is a prophet not god, by looking at the following we can conclude futrer on comforter.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever. (John 14: 16)
Another means some one like him or people like him ( i.e prophets), so word another directs towards he is a prophet. Abide with him forever means his teaching will last with people for ever. So he is the last prophet.
Following two verses direct us to clear pricture in two ways to say comforter is a prophet
I have yet Many Things to say unto you, but Ye Cannot Bear Them Now. (John 16: 12)
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth! For He Shall Not Speak From Himself But Whatsoever He Shall Hear, That Shall He Speak. (John 16:13)
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth! For He Shall Not Speak From Himself But Whatsoever He Shall Hear, That Shall He Speak. (John 16:13)
From 12 its clear Jesus left an unfinished job and from 13 the comforter need to tell all truth, meaning complete. This shows us the need for a person to reveal this truth. It simply cannot be done by the wholy ghost as it cannot reach or proclaim publicly as a prophet. So comforter should be a prophet. If it can do so, there was no need for any prophet before Jesus. It shall not speak from himself means it will not speak from his own disre, only will speak what god tells. This is also directs him as a prophet. Beacause for you wholy ghost is part of god (trinity).
Another reason "He will reprove the world of sin": (see John 16: 8)
So he needs to act on the society (as a human being) to do this.
So he needs to act on the society (as a human being) to do this.
Furthermore it can be concluded from below event its not holy ghost.
The Jews sent priests and Levites to John the Baptist {yahiya (puh)} to ask who he really was. John 1:20-21: "And he [John the Baptist] confessed and denied not; but confessed, 'I am not the Christ.' And they asked him: 'What then? Art thou Elias? 'And he saith: 'I am not.' 'Art thou that prophet?' And he answered: 'No."'
The Jews sent priests and Levites to John the Baptist {yahiya (puh)} to ask who he really was. John 1:20-21: "And he [John the Baptist] confessed and denied not; but confessed, 'I am not the Christ.' And they asked him: 'What then? Art thou Elias? 'And he saith: 'I am not.' 'Art thou that prophet?' And he answered: 'No."'
It clear they were waited for three people Christ, Elias and a prophet. Christ and Elias were Jesus and John the Baptist, if so who is that prophet; isnt that comforter?
Finally Jesus told that the message or privilege of prophet hood will go out of Jews and will be given to another nation. So the need for a prophet from another nation exist it to become true. This needs to be the comforter.
Finally Jesus told that the message or privilege of prophet hood will go out of Jews and will be given to another nation. So the need for a prophet from another nation exist it to become true. This needs to be the comforter.
Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matthew 21: 45)
4. The reason why I believe comforter is Mohamed
*. "That he may abide with you for ever": As there was no need for another one to come after him, and he was the seal of all prophets. The teaching will abide forever and will remain intact. In fact, the Qurtan and all of the teachings of Prophet Muhammad remain as they were 1400 years ago.
Let see the Quran
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men but (he is) the Apostle of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things (holly quran 33:40)
So he is last .In another place Quran says
We have without doubt sent down the Message; and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption) (holly quran 15:09)
So his teachings will abide with us forever.
*. "He will reprove the world of sin": (see John 16: 8) All other prophets, even Abraham, Moses, David, and Solomon chastised their neighbors and their people for sin, but not the world as Muhammad did. He not only rooted out idolatry in Arabia within a twenty three year period, but also sent envoys to Heraclius, the sovereigns of the Persian and Roman empires, to Najashi (the king of Ethiopia), and to Muqauqis (the governor of Egypt). He reprimanded the Christians for dividing the unity of God into three portions, for having raised Jesus to a Son of God and then to God Himself.
*. "The Spirit of Truth" (John 16: 13). Since childhood, Prophet Muhammad was called al-Amin, i.e., the Honest or Truthful One by all. This person will also come and "he will guide you into all truth: ..." (John 16:13). Quran is complete and its clear god himself say so.
*. "For he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak" (John 16:13). The Qur'an is God's word. Not a single word from Prophet Muhammad or his Companions was included within it. The angel Gabriel read it to him, he memorized it, and it was written down by his scribes. His sayings and teachings (as explanations of Quran) were recorded in the hadith or (lit. tradition) literature.
Compare this with Deuteronomy 18:18: "... and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." These corresponds with surah 53:24: "Your companion [Muhammad] is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak of [his own] desire. It is only the inspiration that is inspired."
*. "And he will show you things to come" (John 16: 13). Many prophecies of Prophet Muhammad have already come to pass, and the rest will be fulfilled in the future.
*.Jesus (puh) said "He shall glorify me (John 16:14). And Mohamed (puh) did this.
*. Finally.
Bible states:-
He shell teach you all things and bring all things to your REMEMBERANCE, whatsoever I have said unto you (john 14:26)
Quran confirms:-
And REMEMBER Jesus the son of Mary said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!" (Quran 61:6)
Of course these are few reasons and there are many more
Of course these are few reasons and there are many more
I cannot agree with any of above. In fact it's clearly contradicts the facts that available in Islamic sources. It can be well understood by Islamic sources that mohamed is the last prophet.
It's clear by,
It's clear by,
1. Pure Arabic language that used in Quran and Hadeeth
2. By considering full verse of 33:40 in Quran and other verses, which supports it.
3. Hadith (saying) of prophet mohamed, which explains the Quranic meaning.
2. By considering full verse of 33:40 in Quran and other verses, which supports it.
3. Hadith (saying) of prophet mohamed, which explains the Quranic meaning.
1. Pure Arabic language that used in Quran and hadeeth
Seal that used to stamp or authenticate is in Arabic call khithm, this had originated from the root word khatm meaning final or end. Those days it was used at the end of the letters as stamping it.
Arabic language words are formed with the root word. Each word form directs its meaning not like in English where single word can be taken as several meaning.
For example another word that originated from root word khatm is Khathma which comes in following verse of Quran
Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment (2:7)
Here you cannot say its authentication,
Same way,
Mohamed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets and Allah ever all aware of everything (33:40).
The word used here khathame; exact meaning of this word is something that concluded firmly as closed that never be reopen. Even though it can be said as end or last, the nearest meaning in English is seal as it emphasis the meaning better.
2. By considering full verse of 33:40 in Quran and other suporting verses
Mohamed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets and Allah ever all aware of everything (33:40).
First of all sura (chapter) 33 does not deal only with the adopted son case, it deals with several other issues too, particular verse that deals the adopted son case is verse 37, Its true that verse 40 "Mohamed is not the father of any of your men" emphasis that zaid is a adopted son. But remaining verses gives the precise reason for why Mohamed not had any son. Simply he is the last, if there is a son, people could have claimed that he is the successor in prophet hood as we seen in the lineage of prophets in Jews. Allah aware of everything he knows whether mohamed need a son or not; if given what will happen. With his son in law (ali ) and grandsons (hassan & husain) people are/were claiming a lot that Islam never approved, if son is given what would be the situation. Certainly god is aware of everything. So it's important to understand full verse not partially.
Every religion foretold about a successor, prophet or a sage that will come after him or in last days. However Quran never says there will be another prophet after mohamed. In fact unlike other religion it claims that Islam is complete and any other religion will never be accepted by god after this.
. This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM. (5:3) and whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the loser (3:85)
This proves prophet Mohamed is last.
3. Hadith (saying) of prophet mohamed clearly states he is last
Please see the following hadith
When Ali described the Prophet (peace be upon him) he said: He was neither very tall nor excessively short, but was a man of medium size. He had neither very curly nor flowing hair but a mixture of both. He was not obese, he did not have a very round face, but it was so to some extent. He was reddish-white, he had wide black eyes and long eyelashes. He had protruding joints and shoulder-blades, he was not hairy but had some hair on his chest, and the palms of his hands and his feet were calloused. When he walked he raised his feet as though he were walking on a slope; when he turned round he turned completely. Between his shoulders was the seal of prophecy and he was the seal of the prophets. He had a finer chest than anyone else, was truer in utterance than anyone else, had the gentlest nature and the noblest tribe. Those who saw him suddenly stood in awe of him and those who shared his acquaintanceship loved him. Those who described him said they had never seen anyone like him before or since.(Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5791)
You can understand the meaning of seal of the prophets from above hadith as it has used the same wordings as Quranic verse (33:40). Seal of the prophecy is the mark that given in the prophet Mohamed's body which is the sign of the bearer of last revelation (people such as salman al farisi accepted islam after seeing this, as they were aware of this sign which should be there on the person who will come as last prophet)
Following hadith also confirm the word seal.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "I am the leader (qa'id) of the messengers, and this is no boast; I am the seal of the prophets, and this is no boast; and I shall be the first to make intercession and the first whose intercession is accepted, and this is no boast." (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5764)
Please note that somebody to be consider as proud & boast on something, he suppose to be the only one who gets that thing. This is the reason prophet repeated its not a boast as people may misunderstood the facts he revealed as boasting.
In this hadeeth it is very clear three things mohamed gets
1. Leader of messengers
2. Last of messengers,
3. First to make intersession and get acceptance.
With your explanation (authentication / approving) you cannot claim that he is the only person having that. Because; several prophets before him approved the earlier prophets.
In this hadeeth it is very clear three things mohamed gets
1. Leader of messengers
2. Last of messengers,
3. First to make intersession and get acceptance.
With your explanation (authentication / approving) you cannot claim that he is the only person having that. Because; several prophets before him approved the earlier prophets.
Furthermore there are several hadiths give the crystal clear picture on this matter.
The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs (rulers that rule as per Islamic law) who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship." (Sahih Al-Bukhari 4.661 )
Another one explaining it clearly with an example:
The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs (rulers that rule as per Islamic law) who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship." (Sahih Al-Bukhari 4.661 )
Another one explaining it clearly with an example:
Allah's Apostle said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets before me, is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick in a corner. The people go about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: 'Would that this brick be put in its place!' So I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets." (Sahih Al-Bukhari 4.735)
Please refer the hadith in al-bukhari 6.236, which is a long ahdith, here also its clear the mohamed is the last.
So its clear from above seal gives the meaning stamped and last, not authenticator.
With all these proofs from Islamic source another prophet is not possible in Islam. Claming such is like attempting to cover a big jackfruit by a single small strawberry.
With all these proofs from Islamic source another prophet is not possible in Islam. Claming such is like attempting to cover a big jackfruit by a single small strawberry.
This is not true! There is not even a single verse in Quran about Mahdi, in several places Allah is mentioning about Jesus but not mentioned anything about his returning to earth again.
But its true Muslims firmly believe in advent of Mahdi and Jesus return. This is because it has said in hadith (prophets sayings) that were confirmed as authentic.
About mahdi, he will be come as a Calip (Islamic ruler) not as prophet, hence he will not bring any revelation. He will rule and save the oppressed from oppressors. He will be a Califathur rashid (meaning just ruler) and unique among rulers.
About Jesus, he was already a prophet, his return will not going to give us a new prophet to claim him as last. However according to Islam even he comes, he going to rule by the law of Quran not injil ( law given to Jesus) meaning he also will not get any revelation. But he will have better understanding than anyone about the law of god.
Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur'an and not by the law of Injil.. (Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.658)
Please not that it doesnt mean that Mohamed is superior to Jesus, both Mohamed and Jesus enforcing the law of god. They are merely drivers of the car not the owners. So it doest matter who brings the car first from the factory!
about following clergy blindly, in fact I see Muslims are the only people do not follow the clergy as the way they say, they ask for the proof from Islamic sources that is Qur'an and Hadith.
in fact I see Muslims are the only people do not follow the clergy as the way they say, they ask for the proof from Islamic sources that is Qur'an and Hadith.This is the way god protects his final revelation.
As I pointed before in a hadith (eg: mohamed is the leader of prophets) Its true Mohamed is having some significant position, but this doesnt makes him best. Each prophet is significant to god in different ways, each had his own significant, eg: Abraham was Allah's friend, Moses was Allah's confidant, Jesus was His word.
If a Muslim says Mohamed is the best among prophet then he/she was mistaken, Islam prohibits saying so. Look at the Quran and hadith
If a Muslim says Mohamed is the best among prophet then he/she was mistaken, Islam prohibits saying so. Look at the Quran and hadith
Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. (3:84)
You can see it's clear from following in the hadith.
Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, "No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!" Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, "You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!" The Jew went to the Prophet and said, "O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?" The Prophet asked the other, "Why have you slapped". He told him the whole story. The Prophet became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said, "Don't give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah's Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah's Throne. I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me."(Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadit 4.626 )
Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, "No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!" Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, "You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!" The Jew went to the Prophet and said, "O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?" The Prophet asked the other, "Why have you slapped". He told him the whole story. The Prophet became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said, "Don't give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah's Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah's Throne. I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me."(Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadit 4.626 )
I have discussed following topics in my website
Understanding god from Islamic perspective
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/Allah.htm
Why I believe Jesus foretold about Islam
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/Jesus.htm
The common test to identify a prophet, his miracle and what prophet Mohamed did on this (out of many one proof given )
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/moon.htm
Understanding god from Islamic perspective
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/Allah.htm
Why I believe Jesus foretold about Islam
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/Jesus.htm
The common test to identify a prophet, his miracle and what prophet Mohamed did on this (out of many one proof given )
http://www.alislam.100megsfree5.com/Index_files/moon.htm
Booko
Deviled Hen
This is exactly what people said about the Messiah and why Isa was rejected by so many.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Message4you said: "This is not true! There is not even a single verse in Quran about Mahdi, in several places Allah is mentioning about Jesus but not mentioned anything about his returning to earth again."
But for that they broke their compact, and for their misbelief in God's signs, and for their killing the prophets undeservedly, and for their saying, 'Our hearts are uncircumcised,'- nay, God hath stamped on them their misbelief, so that they cannot believe except a few,- and for their misbelief, and for their saying about Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'Verily, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of God,'...but they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him, but a similitude was made for them. And verily, those who differ about him are in doubt concerning him; they have no knowledge concerning him, but only follow an opinion. They did not kill him, for sure! nay, God raised him up unto Himself; for God is mighty and wise!
And there shall not be one of the people of the Book but shall believe in him before his death; and on the day of judgment he shall be a witness against them.
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 4 - Women)
We've had long discussions here about what "last" and "Seal of the Prophets" actually mean.
To me it seems obvious that a "Day of Judgment" occurs each time a Prophet raises His call to mankind.
Moses created a day of judgment, as did Muhammad, Jesus, Zoroaster, the bab and Baha`u'llah.
Those who were spiritually alive answered that call, and those that were spiritually dead did not.
"THE Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event. Had they heard, they would not have believed, and thus they were not told!
When the Apostle of God [Muhammad] appeared, He did not announce unto the unbelievers that the Resurrection had come, for they could not bear the news. That Day is indeed an infinitely mighty Day, for in it the Divine Tree proclaimeth from eternity unto eternity, 'Verily, I am God. No God is there but Me'. Yet those who are veiled believe 79 that He is one like unto them, and they refuse even to call Him a believer, although such a title in the realm of His heavenly Kingdom is conferred everlastingly upon the most insignificant follower of His previous Dispensation. Thus, had the people in the days of the Apostle of God regarded Him at least as a believer of their time how would they have debarred Him, for seven years while He was in the mountain, from access to His Holy House [Ka'bah]? Likewise in this Dispensation of the Point of the Bayan, if the people had not refused to concede the name believer unto Him, how could they have incarcerated Him on this mountain, without realizing that the quintessence of belief oweth its existence to a word from Him? Their hearts are deprived of the power of true insight, and thus they cannot see, while those endowed with the eyes of the spirit circle like moths round the Light of Truth until they are consumed. It is for this reason that the Day of Resurrection is said to be the greatest of all days, yet it is like unto any other day. VIII, 9."
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 78)
Regards,
Scott
But for that they broke their compact, and for their misbelief in God's signs, and for their killing the prophets undeservedly, and for their saying, 'Our hearts are uncircumcised,'- nay, God hath stamped on them their misbelief, so that they cannot believe except a few,- and for their misbelief, and for their saying about Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'Verily, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of God,'...but they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him, but a similitude was made for them. And verily, those who differ about him are in doubt concerning him; they have no knowledge concerning him, but only follow an opinion. They did not kill him, for sure! nay, God raised him up unto Himself; for God is mighty and wise!
And there shall not be one of the people of the Book but shall believe in him before his death; and on the day of judgment he shall be a witness against them.
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 4 - Women)
We've had long discussions here about what "last" and "Seal of the Prophets" actually mean.
To me it seems obvious that a "Day of Judgment" occurs each time a Prophet raises His call to mankind.
Moses created a day of judgment, as did Muhammad, Jesus, Zoroaster, the bab and Baha`u'llah.
Those who were spiritually alive answered that call, and those that were spiritually dead did not.
"THE Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event. Had they heard, they would not have believed, and thus they were not told!
When the Apostle of God [Muhammad] appeared, He did not announce unto the unbelievers that the Resurrection had come, for they could not bear the news. That Day is indeed an infinitely mighty Day, for in it the Divine Tree proclaimeth from eternity unto eternity, 'Verily, I am God. No God is there but Me'. Yet those who are veiled believe 79 that He is one like unto them, and they refuse even to call Him a believer, although such a title in the realm of His heavenly Kingdom is conferred everlastingly upon the most insignificant follower of His previous Dispensation. Thus, had the people in the days of the Apostle of God regarded Him at least as a believer of their time how would they have debarred Him, for seven years while He was in the mountain, from access to His Holy House [Ka'bah]? Likewise in this Dispensation of the Point of the Bayan, if the people had not refused to concede the name believer unto Him, how could they have incarcerated Him on this mountain, without realizing that the quintessence of belief oweth its existence to a word from Him? Their hearts are deprived of the power of true insight, and thus they cannot see, while those endowed with the eyes of the spirit circle like moths round the Light of Truth until they are consumed. It is for this reason that the Day of Resurrection is said to be the greatest of all days, yet it is like unto any other day. VIII, 9."
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 78)
Regards,
Scott
Day of judgment is not taken up by prophets, its done by God, his creation do not have the rights to judge on this day. Even prophets will be judge on these days; this is what in Quran and hadith.
There will not be any prophet after Mohamed, hence the saying of others does not binding. If they say so, it should be justified according to Quran and hadith then they are call scholars. They cannot speak by their own words; they should justify what they say from Quran and hadith. So if anyone claims a prophet hood after Mohamed according to Islam he is certainly a false prophet. If you reads the article and my earlier quotes its clear all religion claim a prophet after their prophet hood but Islam clearly says there will not be a prophet and mahdi will be a guided ruler and Jesus also implement what Quran says as a ruler not as a prophet (with better understanding than any other)
Every religion including Quran claims that the truth can be understand with pure heart, mean time it clearly says us to understand and decided which to follow. So deep analysis is a must to understand the right religion. This is what most people lack.