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Meloni's assault on Italy abortion clinic

Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Ok...it's my fault because I was taking for granted that you guys knew that a woman, before the medical procedure (whether it's through abortion pill or surgery) must (by law) undergo a psychological visit.
Click to expand...

What could possibly be coercive?

You told us:

Estro Felino said:
... regional governments will have the possibility (so it's not compulsory) to hire volunteers, that is pro-life associations professionals, that will try to assist the pregnant woman in the choice. They will not try to dissuade women from having an abortion. [emphasis added - JS]
Click to expand...

We now hear:

Estro Felino said:
The original law was meant to discourage abortion by pushing women to use as many contraceptive methods as possible, because the procedure is complex and not pleasant at all (I mean the psychological visit).
These pro-life associations, I guess, will push women to think again, and show them that they can give their baby for adoption. [emphasis added - JS]
Click to expand...

So, is summary, these (presumably Catholic and presumably professional) pro-life associations
  • will not try to dissuade, but
  • will push women, reinforcing
  • a mandatory psychological visit, which was already
  • not pleasant at all
prior to Meloni and her Brothers of Italy enabling additional intimidation.

Again, what could possibly be coercive?
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
What could possibly be coercive?

You told us:



We now hear:



So, is summary, these (presumably Catholic and presumably professional) pro-life associations
  • will not try to dissuade, but
  • will push women, reinforcing
  • a mandatory psychological visit, which was already
  • not pleasant at all
prior to Meloni and her Brothers of Italy enabling additional intimidation.

Again, what could possibly be coercive?
Click to expand...
It's complex because there are so many gynecologists who are conscientious objectors, so they will not perform an abortion due to moral or religious grounds.
A woman knows that in this country it's not something easy and pleasant, also because of the preventive psychological visit.

Honestly I don't know how much, to what extent these pro-life volunteers will "advise" the patients.

What I think is that abortion is a right and if a woman deliberatedly chooses, she shouldn't be hindered by anyone.

On the other hand, given that we have free universal healthcare, a woman can also have tube ligations or any other kind of sterilization, so she will live her sex life in a much more healthy and serene way, without needing to undergo the nightmare of the abortion procedure.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
2. Because the law on abortion clearly says that abortion is not a contraceptive method, so it cannot be used irresponsbly and numerous times. A woman is supposed to use contraception and to do anything to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. If she gets pregnant despite the contraception, then she can have an abortion. Or in very peculiar cases like risky pregnancy or rape. These professionals will ascertain that.
3. I don't disapprove of it. I mean...most Italian women use contraception. I guess it's foreign women (migrants) that rely on abortion the most.
Click to expand...
Returning to the above:
  1. ...
  2. Why introduce pro-life volunteer "professionals" to ascertain critical medical and legal matters?
  3. Do you have evidence demonstrating that the problem is mostly those "foreign women (migrants)"?
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Ok...it's my fault because I was taking for granted that you guys knew that a woman, before the medical procedure (whether it's through abortion pill or surgery) must (by law) undergo a psychological visit. A professional will show her the available options and will investigate on the pregnancy.
How it happened. Whether there was rape, or not (so the perpetrator will not get away with it) and whether she used contraceptives, or not.

A girl confessed on national TV that these visits are very traumatic. She had to have an abortion and a woman in her sixties, with big, green eyes asked her the most embarassing and private question on the sexual act. And why she hadn't used a contraceptive.

I guess there will be pro-life associations who will have the chance to work in this pre-abortion procedure.
Click to expand...
Which other medical procedures there require a psychological visit?
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
crossfire said:
Which other medical procedures there require a psychological visit?
Click to expand...
For the sex reassignment surgery you need to undergo a psychological therapy and after that, you need to present a documentation to the judge which will authorize that medical operation.
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
For the sex reassignment surgery you need to undergo a psychological therapy and after that, you need to present a documentation to the judge which will authorize that medical operation.
Click to expand...
Anything else? I'm surprised that women requesting sterilization weren't mentioned. Here, it can be difficult for a young woman who hasn't had any children to find someone who will tie her tubes.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Excellent point, especially when we recognize that, while "psychological inquisition" might be too harsh, "visit" is clearly euphemistic.
Click to expand...
Thanks to the psychological inquisition, we can expose rapists who get their own family member pregnant, and then they make them have an abortion to destroy the evidence of the horrific act.

Thanks to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, so many rapists in the US get away with the horrible acts they do, because the genetic evidence is eliminated, as soon as they kill they fetus, through abortion.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Thanks to the psychological inquisition, we can expose rapists who get their own family member pregnant, and then they make them have an abortion to destroy the evidence of the horrific act.
Click to expand...
And torture has been know to yield useful information from time to time. Therefore?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Thanks to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, so many rapists in the US get away with the horrible acts they do, because the genetic evidence is eliminated, as soon as they kill they fetus, through abortion.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?
"Don't ask. Don't tell." was a
military policy about being gay.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Estro Felino said:
Thanks to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy,
Click to expand...
That was a military policy that gave gays some wiggle room to serve in the military. "Don't ask" about someone's sexual orientation and "don't tell" if anyone does was military policy.
Obama did away with it when he let gays openly serve, so it's not even a thing anymore.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
What are you talking about?
"Don't ask. Don't tell." was a
military policy about being gay.
Click to expand...
It's the same mechanism as when a teenager goes to the gynecologist and the latter performs an abortion on her, without asking how it happened and who got her pregnant.
If her father got her pregnant, nobody will ever know.
 
Last edited:
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
It's the same mechanism as when a teenager goes to the gynecologist and performs an abortion on her, without asking how it happened and who got her pregnant.
Click to expand...
Confidentiality in health care is not
labeled as "Don't ask. Don't tell"
military policy.
Estro Felino said:
If her father got her pregnant, nobody will ever know.
Click to expand...
You don't know what health care here
is like. Even for hand surgery, I filled
out many forms asking multiple times
about any & every possible personal
& family difficulty I might endure.

One ought not be so preachy about
things one has no experience with.

Also, watch your pronoun usage. I got
the impression that you meant the
teenager was giving the gynecologist
an abortion.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
Confidentiality in health care is not
labeled as "Don't ask. Don't tell"
military policy.
Click to expand...
...confidentiality which doesn't exist here. I recall that when I had that surgery, anyone in the hospital knew. It bothered me at first. Very much.
Nobody keeps any secret...here. I got used to that.
But thanks to this attitude, crimes are exposed because there's no privacy.

Revoltingest said:
You don't know what health care here
is like. Even for hand surgery, I filled
out many forms asking multiple times
about any & every possible personal
& family difficulty I might endure.

One ought not be so preachy about
things one has no experience with.
Click to expand...
That's reassuring.
Revoltingest said:
Also, watch your pronoun usage. I got
the impression that you meant the
teenager was giving the gynecologist
an abortion.
Click to expand...
Yes, I meant he, the gynecologist. Sorry.
 
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