PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Christians believe it and they wrote it. That's why they can't accept what you think it says.
How do you know what Jesus said or didn't say?
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If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
Christians believe it and they wrote it. That's why they can't accept what you think it says.
How do you know what Jesus said or didn't say?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Who wrote it? Not any Christians living today.
Allegedly John the apostle wrote it and he was speaking for Jesus.
It is not what I think it says. It says what it says.
the world seeth me no more.
I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now I am no more in the world,
How does anyone know that? All we have to go on is what is recorded in the NT.
InChrist
Free4ever
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perspective. I don’t think there is much point in continuing to discuss this, though. I do not consider any writings of Baha’u’llah to be valid or truth.
My hope and trust is in Jesus Christ alone and His Word, the biblical scriptures.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
As if Baha'is believe what the Bible and the NT say is correct. If Baha'is don't like what it says they say, "That might be what it says, but that's not what it means." Can't win... If they like what it literally says, then that's what is true. If they don't like what it literally says, then that is being symbolic.
Whatever. If I had a dollar for every time TB has posted those verses from John, I'd probably have more than twenty-bucks by now.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
It's been good having you here. I've enjoyed reading your posts. What's sad is that Baha'is are supposed to be the unifiers... They are supposed to be the ones that believe all religions are one. Obviously, that's not literal.
InChrist
Free4ever
“…Baha'is are supposed to be the unifiers... They are supposed to be the ones that believe all religions are one. Obviously, that's not literal.”
I hadn’t looked at that aspect, but you are right.
I have also enjoyed your posts tremendously, plus learned a lot.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am more tired of posting those verses than you can even imagine, but I will keep posting them as long as I live.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Because I learned about the Baha'i Faith before I read the NT, this is how I was thinking.
I thought it all made perfect sense. Why wouldn't all religions be one? They are all teaching people to love one another. But the religious leaders got people to distrust the other religions. They wanted an exclusive to God and religious truth.
Now was the time when the world can become united under one religion, one truth... No more war... all people living as one family.
It still sounds good, but will it work? Do the Baha'i teachings really get us to a place where the whole world can be united? Yes... in a way. It all depends on everyone or at least a majority of the world to believe in it.
But if they don't get a majority, then all they are doing is adding one more religion that thinks its "truth" is better than the "truths" taught in the other religions. There is no unity as long as the other religions keep believing that what they teach is the truth. Because what they teach contradicts the teachings of the Baha'i Faith.
The Baha'i Faith has had divisions and could easily have some more. I think they tend to be authoritarian and need to get their people to obey the rulings of their Universal House of Justice, whose rulings are as if they are the infallible Word of God. How are they going to get all the people to obey those rulings without people out there enforcing them?
Even with their "lessor peace" a World Tribunal is supposed to settle the disputes between nations. What if one of those nations is the U.S. or China? Why would they abide by any ruling that goes against them. How are they going to enforce their rulings? They are going to have a military. And supposedly all nations have supposedly already disarmed. So, the Tribunal can force it will on all the nations? Or, along with the rich and powerful nations, impose its ruling on the less powerful, unarmed nations? Sounds a lot like the one world government that the Christians are worried about.
Anyway, who knows what's going to happen. And Baha'is don't know either. But, since it is in their teachings, they believe everything will work out fine.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The majority Baha'i is not going to happen for a very long time. Meanwhile all the Baha'is can do is work to create a better world.
And therein lies the problem. The Baha'i Faith is not going to the the majority as long as the older well-established religions refuse to relinquish those religions. And that my friend is the REASON there can be no unity, at least not right now. It is not the fault of the Baha'is if people who adhere to the older religions don't want to relinquish their religions. That is a choice they make just as it has to be a choice to join the Baha'i Faith.
The Baha'i Faith has no divisions. Those other groups are Covenant-breakers.
You are correct. Nobody knows what is going to happen, nobody but God. The future is not here yet, so why worry about it?
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InChrist
Free4ever
You bring up some good points and thought provoking questions. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perspectives.
I spent several years trying religions and/or different spiritual paths hoping and searching for the “true” one, only to continue seeing drawbacks, hypocrisies or be disappointed in one way or another. My perspective; I have come to realize that religion can never bring personal peace or world peace and unity.
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MelancholicPotatoChip
Member
Why not?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it is because with God all things are possible so the tree should have had figs for Jesus even out of season simply because God wanted them.According to what fetish is it "perverted" for a fig tree to not have figs when it isn't the season for figs?
If that's perverted, then I shudder what you'd think of the smutty apple orchards around here. It's early spring, so - shock! - none of the trees have any apples on them.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I went back looking for something else, but I found this statement of yours. Baha'is have their favorite "cherry-picked" verses. Like where it says that when he the spirit of truth comes, it is talking about Baha'u'llah and not the Holy Spirit. Then the "Three Woes" being Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, especially because it says that the second Woe has ended, and the third Woe comes quickly.
But of all the other overly used quotes, those verses from the gospel of John that are used to claim that Jesus is never coming back, are for me the least credible.
In John 16:16 it says, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
If "no more" meant no more forever, then how can Jesus then say in a while they will see him? And of course, John goes on to have them see the resurrected Jesus.
Now how literal do Baha'is take any of the gospel stories? In Matthew's gospel it says, "4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
But Baha'is don't take that literally. They don't believe Satan, the devil is real.
The story about Lazarus is another one. "John 11:43 ...Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out... Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”
Do Baha'is take that literally? If not, they have zero credibility to be taking any verses as being literal. They can't cherry-pick verses and then claim they are literal.
Ok + are there not already science fiction films out like that - I've seen many. The thing is the Old Testament was written thousands of years before scientific films came into existence and the New Testament at 1700 years before sci-fi films. So it seems sci-fi films got their Intel from the Bible.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
God wanted the tree to have figs, but the tree refused? Why didn't Jesus go to a "believing" tree?
But actually, that's one of the problems with pretty much all Scriptures, especially the Bible and the NT... They have things happening in them that are physically impossible. Yet, because for God anything is possible, a person is expected to believe it.
Like those Christians that expect to be "raptured" away and meet Jesus in the air... sounds nuts. But that's what Paul said was going to happen.
But in Mark it says the believers will be able to drink poison and handle snakes... Are those verses literal? That's supposedly Jesus that said those things.
Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
The Spirit of Truth
The Spirit of Truth
First InvestigateTruth, are you a believer or an atheist? If you are the latter, you will not believe unless He has holes in his hands and feet. However, why would Jesus want to prove anything to you, unless you already fit the standard provided by The Comforter. The Comforter, i.e., The Holy Ghost, came five days after Hitler, the last host of satan, attempted to finish the annihilation of God's people in 1945, which he began around 30,00 years ago with his disciple, Ham, believing that God's incognito army in reserve, the Christians, would not come to their aid if he did. Why would God want to convince the likes of you, that Jesus is back; that is why the Branch growing out of the Rod, i.e., Jesus for the unread, came as the Holy Ghost. Those who love God will know that He is back by the prophesies He fulfills. God does not want the rest and has no intention of proving to you that the Saviour is back; He only wants volunteers, not pressmen. It is still not too late for you to accept The Way, now The Truth, without the proof you demand. However, it will now only be by accepting the forgiveness provided by the Man Jesus and then living your life to the best your conscience will allow. May God give you the wisdom to find the way. Regards JC2
The Spirit of Truth
The Spirit of Truth
Yes Didymus, you are right there. The New Testament is full of ridiculous claims, such as walking on water, feeding 5,000 and turning water into wine. However, if you want to know why God allowed Paul, who never walked with Jesus or anyone who did, to adulterate the message of Jesus and by doing so, alienate the Jews, then I suggest you visit my web 'Gerald Calvert' or "The Papacy Can Now End" using inverted comas. Incidentally, the only miracles Jesus really performed, were healing miracles, which could then easily be claimed as just coincidence by the Pharisees. You will Find out why, God came to the Jew first and then to the Gentile; Jesus was only The Way, but His descendant is here now as The Truth. Know The Truth and the truth will set you free. May God give you wisdom to believe. JC2
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
@InvestigateTruth is a Baha'i, so he is a believer.
Do you actually believe that the physical body of Jesus is in heaven with holes in His hands and His feet? Physical bodies do not exist in heaven (1 Cor 15:50) so Jesus is in heaven with a spiritual body. Spiritual bodies do not exist on earth, so Jesus cannot return to earth in a spiritual body.
There is no such thing as a glorified physical body that exists in heaven. There are only natural human bodies on earth and spiritual bodies in heaven.
1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation
35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
Apparently not, because Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ in the mid-19th century and not many people who claim to love God recognized Him for who He was.
The prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are all explained in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears.
Baha'is already believe in Jesus because He was glorified by Baha'u'llah, but we do not believe that Jesus is coming back to earth.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
The Spirit of Truth
The Spirit of Truth
Good for you, Salixincendium, I suspect you are a Jew who has converted to Christianity, as you will all soon be called to do, by The Branch Growing out of the Rod in Isaiah 11:11,12, i.e., your long-awaited Messiah. However, The Branch growing out of The Rod, will not be calling Jews to Jerusalem or to Israel, it would never hold all of the descendants of Shem and Japheth, who have been martyred in the fight against satan for thousands of years; they will be called to Nazarene Christianity. Catholicism has served God's purpose and must now accept what Jesus really taught, not the adulterated message He allowed Paul to call the Gentiles of Japheth with. The descendants of Noah's second son Shem will live in the tents of Japheth in Europe, the most beautiful continent on earth. Jerusalem will become a shrine to the martyrs of both Shem and Japheth, who gave their lives for God in His fight to render the spirit of satan, grounded, i.e., no longer relevant. Please go to my web 'Gerald Calvert' or "The Papacy Can Now End", using inverted comas, for an uplift of your spirit. God bless you. The Spirit of Truth.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
What about the reference to "my new name"? This refers, I believe, to a Messenger having a different name than Jesus.