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If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?

TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
Since there were doubters back then.....

I think you can see what my conclusion is.
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That is the nature of the Revelations given by God.

It is called 'Judgement Day' for a reason. We are judged against our response to the God given guidance in the age we live.

The judgement becomes heaven or hell. Heaven is nearness to God, embracing the Message, living the morals, virtues and guidance and hell is all the levels of the rejection of that guidance.

The health of our entire world is balanced by our choices.

One way we know Christ is a about to return is the spiritual health of humanity, if they are actually practicing the past advice given, as God's Covenant is that we will not be left without guidance.

Regards Tony
 
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Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
1213 said:
I had to read it again. Sorry, I was wrong, it seems to be speaking about Jerusalem.

For Zion's sake, I will not be silent; and for Jerusalem's sake, I will not rest; until her righteousness goes forth as brightness, and her salvation as a burning lamp. And nations shall see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. And you shall be called by a new name which the mouth of Jehovah shall name. You also shall be a crown of beauty in the hand of Jehovah, and a royal diadem in the palm of your God. You no longer shall be called Forsaken; nor shall your land any longer be called Desolate. But you shall be called, My Delight is in Her; and your land, Married. For Jehovah delights in you, and your land is married. For as a young man marries a virgin, so shall your sons marry you. And as a bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so your God shall rejoice over you. I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem. All the day and all the night they shall not always be silent; you who remember Jehovah, do not let a pause be to you. And give no pause to Him until He sets up and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
Isaiah 62:1-7
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So you think the verses are saying that Jerusalem will be called by a new name?
I can understand why you might think that since it says: You no longer shall be called Forsaken; nor shall your land any longer be called Desolate.

However I think the new name belongs to a man since only a man can be righteous.
And nations shall see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. And you shall be called by a new name which the mouth of Jehovah shall name.
1213 said:
Sorry, I understand it was him in his new body.
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It might very well have been the spiritual body of Jesus that was seen going up to heaven, but the spiritual body of Jesus cannot come back in the same way he was seen going up into heaven because spiritual bodies exist in heaven, not on earth.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
1213 said:
I believe it is already here, in the people.
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The kingdom of God is in some people, but not in all people. If it was in all people, the world would not be such a mess!
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
1213 said:
I would emphasize the, it will not go unnoticed. But, I don't know what exactly it will look like. I am just sure, you wont miss to see it.
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If it was going to be so easy to see, why are we told to be watchful, so as not to miss it?

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
PearlSeeker said:
Luke 24
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
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You cannot have a Jesus who rose with a physical body and ascended to heaven in that physical body, since physical bodies do not exist in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
PearlSeeker said:
1 John 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
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I acknowledge that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
Assuming this christ is the all-powerful creator of the universe, I'ld say that there will be no room for doubt.
So IF there is ANY reason for doubt, then that alone would be conclusive evidence that he's not that all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe and all it contains.
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Christ is not the all-powerful creator of the universe. God is the all-powerful creator of the universe.

There would be no room for doubt of God showed up, but there would be room for doubt of Christ showed up.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
PearlSeeker said:
Nope.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
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Here's some more from Acts 2. This is Peter speaking....

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him...​
​
31 he (David) spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.​
​
I'm no Bible scholar, but it seems clear. The Gospels and Acts are making the claim that Jesus was physically alive.

Do I believe that claim? No, I doubt it. But I also doubt what Baha'is are saying that it was all "symbolic."

But what's also going on here is Peter saying how Jesus proved himself to be from God... signs and wonders. And then, ultimately, rising from the dead. And he proved himself to the disciples after the resurrection by showing them the wounds.

There are ways that Jesus can prove that it is really him. And he'll have to, if he expects to prove himself to me. Baha'u'llah makes the claim that he is the Christ, so far, I'm not convinced.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
But what's also going on here is Peter saying how Jesus proved himself to be from God... signs and wonders. And then, ultimately, rising from the dead. And he proved himself to the disciples after the resurrection by showing them the wounds.
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Even if that did happen, it happened in the days when Jesus was still alive, so it was proof to the disciples because they witnessed it personally.
CG Didymus said:
There are ways that Jesus can prove that it is really him. And he'll have to, if he expects to prove himself to me. Baha'u'llah makes the claim that he is the Christ, so far, I'm not convinced.
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If you had seen Baha'u'llah when He walked on earth you might believe He was who He claimed to be, but people living today don't have that luxury. All we have are His Writings and what was written about Him, just as all Christians have is the Bible.
 
S

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Altfish said:
How do you know all this?
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?? -- What kind ofd question this ? like a blind musician asking for sheet music. How do I know what song they gonna sing when I come through pearly gates ? --- cause I chose the song friend. Now .. you could say .. what if they trick you and play a different song ... then I guess we didnt' know after all .. then did we .. in the land of existential merry go round.

You know what that is right .. ? EM - Existential merry go round .. down town to the fallacy grill.

How do you not know "Da Trut" .. when you hear it .. Do you really think God want you blowing smoke up the royal backside all day long .. day after day .. night after night .. 365 days a year .. every minute every hour .. nothing but robots doing nothing but praising the Creator ? Although I may joke from time to time .. that was a serious question .. you can pass on the EM .. lest we not expect too much on the first day of apprentice-ship.

Is that what you thought ... and why would you think such a thing ... some desperate desire for supplication .. will you be stricken to find out it is so ?

The Truth came at the end of a Bat .. that was very Fat .. the Fatter the Bat .. the more Truth be hat .. You know what a "Fat Bat" is right !
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Sargonski said:
?? -- What kind ofd question this ? like a blind musician asking for sheet music. How do I know what song they gonna sing when I come through pearly gates ? --- cause I chose the song friend. Now .. you could say .. what if they trick you and play a different song ... then I guess we didnt' know after all .. then did we .. in the land of existential merry go round.

You know what that is right .. ? EM - Existential merry go round .. down town to the fallacy grill.

How do you not know "Da Trut" .. when you hear it .. Do you really think God want you blowing smoke up the royal backside all day long .. day after day .. night after night .. 365 days a year .. every minute every hour .. nothing but robots doing nothing but praising the Creator ? Although I may joke from time to time .. that was a serious question .. you can pass on the EM .. lest we not expect too much on the first day of apprentice-ship.

Is that what you thought ... and why would you think such a thing ... some desperate desire for supplication .. will you be stricken to find out it is so ?

The Truth came at the end of a Bat .. that was very Fat .. the Fatter the Bat .. the more Truth be hat .. You know what a "Fat Bat" is right !
Click to expand...
But I know I am right, I know the truth. And it is the total opposite of what you are saying.

Why am I wrong and you right?
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
InvestigateTruth said:
Are you saying that, the purpose of the verse that says "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come", is, to say, to look after your hearts, because, otherwise when Christ comes, they cannot recognize Him?
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No. Those who don't watch will get the short end of the stick when judgement comes. God "commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by" Jesus. This is supposed to happen:

2 Thessalonians 1
... when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day ...
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
When I said "Baha'is could have a physically risen Jesus and it would not change anything, since that Jesus would still die eventually, just like the rest of us" I meant that the physical body of Jesus would die eventually. The physical body of Jesus was perishable, it is the spiritual body of Jesus that is imperishable.

1 Corinthians 15:42 is true, but it is completely out of kilter with the Christian belief that Jesus rose from the dead in a physical body.

Christians who say that Jesus rose in a body that was both physical and spiritual have no leg to stand on, since no such body exists.
There are only two kinds of bodies, physical bodies (natural bodies) and spiritual bodies. There is no such thing as a hybrid body that is BOTH physical and spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!.
Click to expand...
Yes, the resurrected (spiritual) body is a body - not a ghost or spirit (as you said).
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
So you think the verses are saying that Jerusalem will be called by a new name?
Click to expand...
That is how I understand it.
Trailblazer said:
However I think the new name belongs to a man since only a man can be righteous.
And nations shall see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. And you shall be called by a new name which the mouth of Jehovah shall name.
Click to expand...
I think a city can have something that is called it's righteousness. It could be for example Jesus the king.
Trailblazer said:
It might very well have been the spiritual body of Jesus that was seen going up to heaven, but the spiritual body of Jesus cannot come back in the same way he was seen going up into heaven because spiritual bodies exist in heaven, not on earth.
Click to expand...
I don't see any Biblical reason why Jesus and spiritual body could not be back on earth. And to me it is clear from the Bible, that Jesus will return.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
InvestigateTruth said:
Matt 24:


42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
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Ok, thank you. I don't think that means we should watch how he returns, but watch our life that we are prepared for that day, because that day will come surprisingly, when people least expect it.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
CG Didymus said:
But what's also going on here is Peter saying how Jesus proved himself to be from God... signs and wonders. And then, ultimately, rising from the dead. And he proved himself to the disciples after the resurrection by showing them the wounds.

There are ways that Jesus can prove that it is really him. And he'll have to, if he expects to prove himself to me. Baha'u'llah makes the claim that he is the Christ, so far, I'm not convinced.
Click to expand...
Agree. Apostle Thomas is my hero.

Baha'u'llah doesn't convince me because he sucks at exegesis of NT. But so did authors of gospels as well (regarding OT - virgin birth, suffering servant). Karma?
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
Yes yes, any day now

...as people have been saying for the past 2000 years.
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And that's one problem I have with the claims of the Baha'i Faith... "Christ" came, according to them, over 150 years ago and things are worse. The Messiah, Jesus, the Madhi, Kalki, Maitreya... If any of these people have really come or are coming, they're supposed to make things better, not worse.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
PearlSeeker said:
No. Those who don't watch will get the short end of the stick when judgement comes. God "commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by" Jesus. This is supposed to happen:

2 Thessalonians 1
... when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day ...
Click to expand...
There is also the belief of some Christians that the ones doing God's will, the believers in Jesus, will be "raptured" out of here. And when Jesus returned, they return with him.

I'd like to hear how InvestigateTruth and the other Baha'is think about that Christian belief.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
And that's one problem I have with the claims of the Baha'i Faith... "Christ" came, according to them, over 150 years ago and things are worse. The Messiah, Jesus, the Madhi, Kalki, Maitreya... If any of these people have really come or are coming, they're supposed to make things better, not worse.
Click to expand...
Things are worse? That is all a matter of perspective, because many things are better, scientific discoveries and modern medicine, for example.

Where are the verses that say WHEN things were supposed to get better or within any given time frame after Christ returned?

Things are just as they were prophesied to be.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

These verses describe what happened around the time that Baha'u'llah came (as a sign of His coming) and after He came.
The rumors of wars were heard before Baha'u'llah came, as a sign of His coming.
Actual wars, where nation arose against nation (WWI and WWII), as well as famines, pestilences, and earthquakes have happened since Baha'u'llah came.
 
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