The Trinity - What on Earth is it?

I have mentioned in various posts why I parted from Christianity. However, one thing just continues to bug me -the Trinity. It is to me the weirdest thing imaginable, but it is accepted by millions, most of whom I believe are as puzzled as me if they were honest.

It is a big subject so let us start with one factor. Son of God.
Son has biological, legal and social meanings, but what does it mean here? Why would it be considered as making any sense at all?

rocala said:

I have mentioned in various posts why I parted from Christianity. However, one thing just continues to bug me -the Trinity. It is to me the weirdest thing imaginable, but it is accepted by millions, most of whom I believe are as puzzled as me if they were honest.

It is a big subject so let us start with one factor. Son of God.
Son has biological, legal and social meanings, but what does it mean here? Why would it be considered as making any sense at all?

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I think it means that that Jesus is the king that God told David would be one of his descendants. God said “I will be his father and he shall be my son.”

Niatero said:

“I will be his father and he shall be my son.”

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What does that mean? Was sperm involved or an adoption procedure? I ask again what does son of God mean.

rocala said:

What does that mean? Was sperm involved or an adoption procedure? I ask again what does son of God mean.

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It’s an analogy. The son of a king becomes a king. Jesus is in that same kind of relationship with God.

It means that when God talks to David about Jesus, he calls Jesus “my son.” again after Jesus is baptized by John, God calls Jesus “my son.” Do you think God is wrong or mistaken to call Jesus His son, just because it doesn’t make any sense to you?

To broaden the discussion a bit, what puzzles me is the idea that God is three and one at the same time. I have never heard an explanation from a believer that makes sense to me.

Niatero said:

The son of a king becomes a king.

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Which has always involved sperm or adoption, Stop dodging the question, what does "son of God" mean?

Alien826 said:

To broaden the discussion a bit, what puzzles me is the idea that God is three and one at the same time. I have never heard an explanation from a believer that makes sense to me.

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To me it just means that in the Bible, sometimes the word “God” means the father, sometimes it means the son, and sometimes it means the holy spirit.

rocala said:

Which has always involved sperm or adoption, Stop dodging the question, what does "son of God" mean?

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So you’re saying that God doesn’t have a right to call Jesus His son, just because you personally think it can only mean sperm or adoption? Next you’ll be saying that He was wrong to call the teachings of the Pharisees “leaven.”

You’re also disagreeing with Merriam-Webster when you say it can only be by sperm or adoption.

“: a person closely associated with or deriving from a formative agent (such as a nation, school, or race)”

rocala said:

I have mentioned in various posts why I parted from Christianity. However, one thing just continues to bug me -the Trinity. It is to me the weirdest thing imaginable, but it is accepted by millions, most of whom I believe are as puzzled as me if they were honest.

It is a big subject so let us start with one factor. Son of God.
Son has biological, legal and social meanings, but what does it mean here? Why would it be considered as making any sense at all?

Click to expand...

I don’t know if sense can be made of it as such. In Revelations Jesus appears as issuing warnings from heaven, but also pre Jesus the man as a sacrificial lamb stepping up to ‘fill the gap’, and later as a vengeful warrior. He appears to be part of a kind of heavenly court, the son of the god who is the ruler of that court. References to him as the son of the most high, the son of man, and the divine logos by which the universe was created seem to juxtapose an eternal existence (in the heavenly court, a son of god but without a mother - although the Holy Spirit is grammatically feminine) with him being actually born on earth as a human. So god (the father) acts through him but he also has some autonomy. Although he is portrayed in some sense as perfectly united with the father god, he doesn’t know everything the father knows, but he does always seem to use his autonomy to perfectly enact the will of the father.

So I suppose it’s a kind of fantasy about perfection in behaviour and union between father and son, or something like that. I don’t think there can be any realistic expectation of it making sense. Christian explanations either accept that it’s just a big mystery or provide inadequate analogies.

rocala said:

Which has always involved sperm or adoption, Stop dodging the question, what does "son of God" mean?

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Oh, I see. You’re talking about what do Christians mean by it. I think it means different things to different people, but maybe mostly they don’t know what it means, except thinking, maybe mostly unconsciously, that it’s something physical. It’s just words that they tell themselves they believe because they think that’s what Christians believe.

If they have any picture of it, it might be however they picture the Holy Spirit hovering over Mary (without any actual physical contact of course), and magically Jesus begins growing inside her, without going any farther into details about how that makes him the son of God. “It’s a mystery,” “beyond human understanding.”

Tomef said:

I don’t think there can be any realistic expectation of it making sense. Christian explanations either accept that it’s just a big mystery or provide inadequate analogies.

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Niatero said:

I think it means different things to different people, but maybe mostly they don’t know what it means, except thinking, maybe mostly unconsciously, that it’s something physical. It’s just words that they themselves they believe because they think that’s what Christians believe.

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Wow, glad I am not a Christian. So far the outlook is not very good.
All those believers for all these centuries, is this the best that you can come up with?

rocala said:

Wow, glad I am not a Christian. So far the outlook is not very good.
All those believers for all these centuries, is this the best that you can come up with?

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Well, that’s it looks to me. I’m not saying that they can’t do any better but if they can, I haven’t seen it or heard of it. But weren’t you a Christian once? What did you think it meant, or didn’t you ever believe it? If you did believe it, how were you able to do that?

Niatero said:

But weren’t you a Christian once? What did you think it meant ?

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Yes, but only as a child. Adulthood made me think for myself and that led to this conversation.

rocala said:

Yes, but only as a child. Adulthood made me think for myself and that led to this conversation.

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Well, as a child, what did you think it meant? Did you have a picture in your mind (please don’t go into details), or was it just words to you?

It’s possible that many Christians see it the way I do. God calls Jesus His son and that’s all I need to know. I don’t need to know what He means by it. I do have a theory about it but hasn’t told me if I’m right or wrong.

Maybe some other people who used to believe that Jesus was the son of God but don’t any more can remember how they were able to believe it. I can’t remember if I ever believed it or not as something the Holy Spirit did to Mary. As a child, did you think it was something the Holy Spirit did to Mary?

Niatero said:

Well, as a child, what did you think it meant? Did you have a picture in your mind (please don’t go into details), or was it just words to you?

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It meant nothing. It was one of those things that (even then) the less observably bright adults mentioned to children. Stuff such as Father Christmas and the tooth fairy.

Always thought the Trinity made things unnecessarily complicated.
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what "The Son of God" himself taught and yet is often considered to be of central importance for many Christians.

rocala said:

I have mentioned in various posts why I parted from Christianity. However, one thing just continues to bug me -the Trinity. It is to me the weirdest thing imaginable, but it is accepted by millions, most of whom I believe are as puzzled as me if they were honest.

It is a big subject so let us start with one factor. Son of God.
Son has biological, legal and social meanings, but what does it mean here? Why would it be considered as making any sense at all?

Click to expand...

Most religions conceptualize "God" is several ways at once.

There is "God" the over-arching omni-deity that we humans cannot comprehend.

There are any number of individual ways this omni-god can be expressed within the world around us. Through sexuality and procreation, through gathering sustenance and finding shelter, through healing injury and disease, and through visions and manifest destiny. Many religions give these individualized expressions of the omni-god or "godhead" their own names and stories and personalities to help people understand those particular expressions better.

In Christianity there is the 'omni-god' that is beyond our comprehensions (God the "father"), there is the expression of that omni-god's spirit and intention for us in the form of a specific human being (Jesus the Christ), and there is the expression of that omni-gods spirit within each of us (the "holy spirit").

It's not that there are three Gods. It's that there is one God with three different and distinct manifestations within our experience and understanding of the world. There is the God above and beyond humanity, God as a human being come to and for humanity, and the God that dwells within each of us.

This is how I understand it, anyway.

rocala said:

It is a big subject so let us start with one factor. Son of God.

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I have another idea , how about to start with 'Son of Man'?

Dimi95 said:

I have another idea

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So start a thread then.