Ajax
Active Member
OK fair enough, but may I ask you, If - touch wood as they say - you fall ill again, will you go to the scientists doctors, or will you pray as the Bible says and wait to be healed?
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Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation
- Thread starter 74x12
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So you and I agree there was no Great Flood as described in Genesis, and that the bible contains folktales presented as facts, then?
On the contrary, I think the study of humans and how they think is capable of greatly illuminating why virtually all of them/us have invented gods at some time or another.
As you'll have noticed, in the early part of the Tanakh, it's taken for granted that there are many gods, as shown (amongst many examples) in the command, Thou shalt have no other gods before me ─ instead of Ain't no other gods! That's called henotheism, as you doubtless know. God only becomes the sole God after the Babylonian captivity, say by Isaiah.
And of course God continues to evolve. The Christian version of [him] splits off in the first century CE, renounces the covenant of circumcision, shifts the seventh day to Sunday, and as a matter of political necessity adopts the Trinity notion and thus officially raises Jesus to God status around the 4th century, though the pressure had been there since the 2nd century.
Then the Christian God splits into east and west, then the west splits into Catholic and Protestant, then the Protestant splits into high and low, then the low fragments split into literally thousands of pieces. We also find Jesus in the Mormon church and the Rastafarian church.
So the effort of a bit of study is well repaid with some understanding.
So the perfect God has chosen to communicate via imperfect messengers then?
If [he]'s trying to communicate with humans in good faith, that's just dumb of [him], no?
Or does [he] enjoy jerking people around?
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
That's correct.
I guess that depends on what you know of God's purposes, plans, methods, provisions, knowledge, etc. Using the framework of your understanding, I'm guessing the answer would be "yes."
Your question isn't compatible with the framework of my understanding, so I can't offer an answer that belongs to me.
Same as above.
But surely included in your framework of understanding must be the observation that there are thousands of versions of Christianity around the planet, not to mention the Mormons and the Rastafarians. no?
And that must tell us something about God as a communicator, no?
And as an additional question, what is God doing about getting [his] message, whatever that is, across to the Hindus, the Confucians, the Buddhists, the Shinyoists, the followers of the Great Spirit or the Rainbow Serpent, and so on?
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
It is, yes.
The fact alone? No, it's simply a fact. We could make assumptions about causes, but if that's as far as we go before we start drawing conclusions, how would we know if we'd arrived at the truth of the matter?
From within whose framework of understanding are you asking me to respond?
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
What are the options?
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
That depends on whether one wants an intelligible, or at least an informed, response, or whether one simply wants to have his own understanding reflected back to himself in the response (very common).
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Why not simply list the available options?That depends on whether one wants an intelligible, or at least an informed, response, or whether one simply wants to have his own understanding reflected back to himself in the response (very common).
For example:
- Intelligent
- From Christian PoV
- Baptist
- Methodist
- Mormom
- Catholic
- Etc.
- From Muslim PoV
- Sunni (without Hadith)
- Sunni (with Hadith)
- Shia (without hadith)
- Shia (with Hadith)
- Etc.
- From Hindu PoV
- Vaishnavism
- Smartism
- Shaktism
- Shaivism
- etc.
- From Christian PoV
- Informed
- From Christian PoV
- Baptist
- Methodist
- Mormom
- Catholic
- Etc.
- From Muslim PoV
- Sunni (without Hadith)
- Sunni (with Hadith)
- Shia (without hadith)
- Shia (with Hadith)
- Etc.
- From Hindu PoV
- Vaishnavism
- Smartism
- Shaktism
- Shaivism
- etc.
- From Christian PoV
- Etc.
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
If you are able to respond within the framework of all of those systems in an expert, informed manner, you know a whole lot more than I do. I only know what I know.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I merely presented an example of a manner in which you can list the options.
Not that you had to present options that you are unable to do.
Never mind me, I got an answer to my curiosity.
Carry on.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Disagreement results from human imperfection, not from failure on the messenger's part.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So you believe that Jesus was imperfect? I don't.
As a mirror image of a perfect God, Jesus was also perfect.
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
No, I don't believe that, and never said that.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Good.
The world as it is. The Hindus, Buddhists, and so on, have been around longer than Christianity, and they're still going. That would appear to mean that what they believe is no less valid (albeit no more valid) than what Christians believe, no? The Muslims haven't been around as long, but I seem to recall a survey showing that in terms of numbers they'll overtake Christianity shortly.
Is the omnipotent Christian God going to take that lying down, or should we expect some cataclysm to reduce the opposition to ashes or whatever?
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I’m asking you personally. From your posts it appears that you believe there is some way to know you are being guided by the spirit, however it is also the case that many people who believe the same thing disagree about what the spirit is telling them. You believe that any disagreement is due to human failings. So, what is it you mean exactly? The question is quite straightforward, this is a belief you have so my assumption is that you have some justification for it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is no omnipotent Christian God, there is only God, the God of all those religions you mentioned, who is also the God of Christianity.
Esteban X
Member
I thought I was a Christian but it was studying the Bible t.hat led me to Agnostic Atheism. The partisan nature of the Old Testament and the absurdity of it all among other things.I didn't lose my faith by reading but by thinking.