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If you think heaven is real, why are you still here?

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Ulfhednar
As the title says: If you think heaven is real, why are you still here? And I don't mean you should go kill yourself, I'm just wondering why you would work hard to extend your own life span if you think a perfect place is available to you after your life ends.

Here is an analogy to better explain the meaning behind my words:

You are living in a cardboard box. You have the clothes on your back, enough food to last until you gather your next meal, and every day you work hard to maintain the box you live in.

One day a man comes up to you and tells you that he lives in the golden palace at the end of the street. Everything in the palace is of the highest quality, every mod con is available to all that live there, the food is cooked by the best chefs, every vehicle is available to drive, ride, sail, and pilot, and the in house doctor knows all the best medical knowledge of every culture. There is even every pleasure you can enjoy, on tap, twenty four hours a day.

He offers you a place in the palace as soon as the box is no longer a viable living space and tells you that as soon as you walk up to the golden gates someone will take you to get you settled into your new home.

The question is this: Why would you continue to repair the cardboard box? Why would you resist the opportunity to live in the golden palace for even a second more?

Even if you can't actively destroy the box, just let it fail to be inhabitable as quick as is natural.

Any and all answers are welcome.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
...
The question is this: Why would you continue to repair the cardboard box? Why would you resist the opportunity to live in the golden palace for even a second more?

Even if you can't actively destroy the box, just let it fail to be inhabitable as quick as is natural.
Click to expand...
I think the "box" fails anyway, no matter what I would do. I think what I do, is more about making the waiting more pleasant.

But, I also don't know will I go to heaven. Bible promises eternal life for righteous only. It is possible that I am not righteous enough for that.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I don’t quite live in a box, I live in what Americans call an apartment; and I am quite content to do so for now. I’m in no hurry to move to more salubrious premises.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
As the title says: If you think heaven is real, why are you still here? And I don't mean you should go kill yourself, I'm just wondering why you would work hard to extend your own life span if you think a perfect place is available to you after your life ends.

Here is an analogy to better explain the meaning behind my words:

You are living in a cardboard box. You have the clothes on your back, enough food to last until you gather your next meal, and every day you work hard to maintain the box you live in.

One day a man comes up to you and tells you that he lives in the golden palace at the end of the street. Everything in the palace is of the highest quality, every mod con is available to all that live there, the food is cooked by the best chefs, every vehicle is available to drive, ride, sail, and pilot, and the in house doctor knows all the best medical knowledge of every culture. There is even every pleasure you can enjoy, on tap, twenty four hours a day.

He offers you a place in the palace as soon as the box is no longer a viable living space and tells you that as soon as you walk up to the golden gates someone will take you to get you settled into your new home.

The question is this: Why would you continue to repair the cardboard box? Why would you resist the opportunity to live in the golden palace for even a second more?

Even if you can't actively destroy the box, just let it fail to be inhabitable as quick as is natural.

Any and all answers are welcome.
Click to expand...

In the Christian context, there's the Parable of the Talents.

Translating this to your analogy: you'll get a room in the palace right away if your cardboard box fails, but you'll get a fancier room - and get to do more interesting stuff - if the man with the palace thinks you did a good job managing your cardboard box.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
And in a Hindu context:

The hankering for the highest quality, every mod con is available to all that live there, the food is cooked by the best chefs, every vehicle is available to drive, ride, sail, and pilot, and the in house doctor knows all the best medical knowledge of every culture, and even every pleasure you can enjoy, on tap, twenty four hours a day results in bondage to the cycle of rebirth (samsara).

A discriminating man is free from attachment to and desire for such things and is content in the cardboard box with the clothes on his back, enough food to last until he gathers his next meal, every day working hard to maintain the box he lives in, while remaining in bliss in the knowledge of his true nature.
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you don't make intention behind your action towards next world, yes, you are only deceiving yourself about believing in it.

وَهَٰذَا كِتَابٌ أَنْزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ مُصَدِّقُ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَلِتُنْذِرَ أُمَّ الْقُرَىٰ وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا ۚ وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ ۖ وَهُمْ عَلَىٰ صَلَاتِهِمْ يُحَافِظُونَ | Blessed is this Book, which We have sent down, confirming what was [revealed] before it, so that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they regarding their prayers are guarders. | Al-An'aam : 92

مَنْ كَانَ يُرِيدُ حَرْثَ الْآخِرَةِ نَزِدْ لَهُ فِي حَرْثِهِ ۖ وَمَنْ كَانَ يُرِيدُ حَرْثَ الدُّنْيَا نُؤْتِهِ مِنْهَا وَمَا لَهُ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنْ نَصِيبٍ | Whoever desires the tillage of the Hereafter, We will enhance for him his tillage, and whoever desires the tillage of the world, We will give it to him, but he will have no share in the Hereafter. | Ash-Shura : 20

The Quran considers the option of desiring both to be trickery of the soul. If you desire both, you probably don't really believe in the next, but have deceived yourself about that.
 
Wolf_Bloodbeard

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Ulfhednar
I think you all misunderstood my analogy. The box is your body, the palace is heaven, and the man is god. When your body fails you god has offered you a place in heaven, so why do everything to keep your body alive? That was the crux of the analogy.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
I think you all misunderstood my analogy.
Click to expand...

No, I got that.


Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
The box is your body, the palace is heaven, and the man is god. When your body fails you god has offered you a place in heaven, so why do everything to keep your body alive? That was the crux of the analogy.
Click to expand...

And the answer I gave from the Christian context gives the answer: there are lots of things that can get you "reward in Heaven."

If you get to choose between "Heaven Basic," "Heaven Plus," "Heaven Premium," "Heaven Platinum," etc., would it be a slam dunk that you'd just settle for "Heaven Basic"?
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
I think you all misunderstood my analogy. The box is your body, the palace is heaven, and the man is god. When your body fails you god has offered you a place in heaven, so why do everything to keep your body alive? That was the crux of the analogy.
Click to expand...
The analogy only works with the Abrahamic paradigm (and not even so with all the religions in that paradigm).

It fails in my and most Dharmic and contemporary Pagan religions.
 
Wolf_Bloodbeard

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Ulfhednar
9-10ths_Penguin said:
No, I got that.




And the answer I gave from the Christian context gives the answer: there are lots of things that can get you "reward in Heaven."

If you get to choose between "Heaven Basic," "Heaven Plus," "Heaven Premium," "Heaven Platinum," etc., would it be a slam dunk that you'd just settle for "Heaven Basic"?
Click to expand...
The golden palace is heaven premium: The best possible.
 
Wolf_Bloodbeard

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Ulfhednar
SalixIncendium said:
The analogy only works with the Abrahamic paradigm (and not even so with all the religions in that paradigm).

It fails in my and most Dharmic and contemporary Pagan religions.
Click to expand...
If the religious paradigm has a heaven: A place that is the best of all possible places, then this question is for those that believe in that paradigm. The question is not targeted at anyone else as they don't have a heaven in their religious paradigm.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
If the religious paradigm has a heaven: A place that is the best of all possible places, then this question is for those that believe in that paradigm. The question is not targeted at anyone else as they don't have a heaven in their religious paradigm.
Click to expand...
Oh, I certainly have heaven in my religious paradigm, but from my own perspective, heaven isn't a place.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
If you don't believe that you are "going to heaven" when you die then this questions is not targeted at you.
Click to expand...
You OP wasn't clear in that respect. It asked in heaven is real, not if it's a place you go when you die.

Heaven, in my experience, is real, at least in terms of what is considered to be real from the perspective of pragmatic reality.

So I ask again, more specifically this time, why, as someone who identifies as atheist, do you conceptualize heaven as a place?
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Wolf_Bloodbeard said:
I think you all misunderstood my analogy. The box is your body, the palace is heaven, and the man is god. When your body fails you god has offered you a place in heaven, so why do everything to keep your body alive? That was the crux of the analogy.
Click to expand...


I think most people understood your analogy perfectly well. Was your question rhetorical btw?
 
Wolf_Bloodbeard

Wolf_Bloodbeard

Ulfhednar
Clarifications:

1. When a religious person says they are "going to heaven" the subtext of the language is that they are travelling to a place they envision that they will be in.

2. When I'm talking about heaven I am talking about any level of heaven. To try and split hairs about which level of heaven, which package deal is on offer, or anything else, is just a way of trying to side step the conversation.

3. No, I am not being rhetorical. This is a genuine question that I would like an answer to.

4. I think I was clear about my target audience because of the phrasing of the question. If I asked for someone to describe what it's like being pregnant then I'm obviously not asking those that haven't been pregnant. The same goes for asking why someone chooses to postpone going to heaven for as long as possible.

5. In all iterations of heaven that organised religions have put forward it is a literal place that the "soul" goes to once the body is no longer able to sustain life. This is the heaven I am talking about.
 
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