Baha'i Vs. Christian Interpretation Of Gospels

PearlSeeker said:

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body." (1 Cor 6:19-20)

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I see we as humans are not the embodiment of the Holy Spirit, that was the birth right of Jesus who was the 'Christ, Jesus was born of that Holy Spirit.

We are human born of the Human Spirit and must be born again into the Acceptance of Jesus as Christ. Only In that way we can Mirror the Light that is Jesus Christ.

This is a warning given in scriptures, that we submit to God and do not think ourselves full of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:3, KJV: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 New Living Translation
For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

We are not the 'annointed ones', we are not a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Baha'u'llah has explained how He is the Temple Christianity awaits.

"Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words “Be and it is”.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

PearlSeeker said:

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body." (1 Cor 6:19-20)

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I believe that Jesus offered Himself for the sins and inequities of all mankind, not only Christians, but I do not believe they were "bought for a price."

I do not believe that the Holy Spirit literally "lives inside" anyone's body. Entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits. Intellectual subtleties and mental realities such as the Holy Spirit do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend into the body, but rather they have direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind while we are alive in the physical body.

Trailblazer said:

Son of God is a title that belongs exclusively to Jesus but Son of man is not a title that belongs exclusively to Jesus.

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That's true but in NT books the title Son of Man is used exclusively when Jesus is speaking about himself.

Trailblazer said:

Jesus was the Son of Man but Baha’u’llah was also the Son of Man because He was the return of Christ.

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That's what Baha'is believe. But in Christian scripture it is written that only Jesus Christ personally will return:

“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"

Seeker of White Light said:

They did not rely on digital gadget that remember for them nor did they have many books due to few knew how to write or read, so oral tradition was what they used to remember teaching.

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That's because human science wasn't being practiced. It's just a choice. Natural living not books owned life.

A humans scientific thesis is chosen exact by the humans who want to apply it.

Old human science were created theories as human men. Was already proven God earth incorrect.

So a new theist has to write data stories by using old human advice. Maths is direct. Life and natural evolution isn't.

As cosmic evolution owned all cold present held mass of its own type.

Science said God by type is gods. Multi. Energy owns variable types of forms.

So no one law about energy has ever existed. It was already advised human scientists are life's destroyer.

Hated was the Roman Empire for ego status claim...
my new type of technology owned an add on. Stonehenge. Which blew up too.

As did pyramids topple exploding and their temple of science.

Man's idea I can control by cooling. Nothing out of space owned cooling.

Is why he destroys life on earth.

PearlSeeker said:

That's what Baha'is believe. But in Christian scripture it is written that only Jesus Christ personally will return:

“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"

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Was he sacrificed? Baha'i terms.

No.

Did he own healed returned man's baby DNA returned health mind body conscious behaviour man healer...by a non practice nuclear science of men?

Yes.

At the same advice elsewhere had life of man shroud evidence returned as sacrifice fallen star of Romes cause? Life attacked.

Yes.

In the past were new human spiritual lives becoming aware as other human men died Sacrificed?

Yes. How else was the story known taught?

Ice the saviour causes. Melt water life body changed but saved advised.

PearlSeeker said:

That's true but in NT books the title Son of Man is used exclusively when Jesus is speaking about himself.

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That's true. Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man and the title Son of Man is connected with Jesus' earthly life and His sufferings.

I agree with the following article, except the part I highlighted in red, which is not about Jesus. It is about the Messiah of the latter days which was Baha'u'llah.

Don Stewart :: Why Did Jesus Call Himself the Son of Man?

Jesus' favorite designation, in referring to Himself, was the "Son of Man." The Gospels record some seventy-eight times that Jesus used this title for Himself. For example, when He asked His disciples the question about His identity, He said,

Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? (Matthew 16:13).

Though the Bible does not define its exact meaning, the title "Son of Man" probably refers to the fact that Jesus was perfect humanity. He, as God, came down and lived among us as the perfect human being. By doing this, He fulfilled the Law of Moses and did what no other human being was able to do. By using this title, He is identifying with the people He had come to save.

It Is Connected With His Earthly Life

The title is connected with the earthly life of Jesus.

But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - he said to the paralytic (Mark 2:10).

Jesus said.
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28).

Jesus also said.
And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head (Matthew 8:20)

Jesus gave the reason for His coming to earth.
For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost (Luke 19:10).

It Is Connected With His Sufferings

"Son of Man" is also connected with the sufferings of Jesus on behalf of humanity.

And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again (Mark 8:31).

This Speaks Of His Exaltation And Rule

The title "Son of Man" also has to do with his exaltation and rule over humanity.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory (Matthew 25:31).

Jesus said.
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born (Matthew 26:24).

It Is A Messianic Designation

The title "Son of Man" was a designation for the Messiah. The Book of Daniel predicted that the Son of Man would inherit God's everlasting kingdom.

And behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed (Daniel 7:13,14).

Jesus Employed The Designation At His Trial

When Jesus was on trial and was asked if He were the Messiah, He referred to this prediction:

It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming on the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64).

This statement infuriated the religious rulers. They accused Him of blasphemy for claiming equal authority with God. It was clear to them that Jesus referred to Daniel's prophecy and hence was claiming to be the Messiah.

The Title Emphasizes That He Was Human

It seems by using the title "Son of Man" Jesus wanted to convey the truth that He was entirely human.

Summary

The Son of Man is a title that was used exclusively by Jesus - His disciples never addressed Him as such. Jesus used it to emphasize His humanity. The title goes back to the Book of Daniel where the Son of Man would inherit the everlasting kingdom of God. It is a designation of the Messiah. At His trial Jesus acknowledged that He indeed was the Son of Man - the one who would bring in God's everlasting kingdom. When the religious leaders heard this they accused Him of blasphemy - making Himself equal with God. The purpose of the title seems to be Jesus' own emphasis on His humanity.

Why Did Jesus Call Himself the Son of Man?

PearlSeeker said:

That's what Baha'is believe. But in Christian scripture it is written that only Jesus Christ personally will return:

“Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"

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Jesus did not say “Surely I am coming soon.” The writer of Revelation said that.

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" is a supplication for Jesus to come, not Jesus saying He is coming.

Jesus said He was no more in the world and His work was finished here.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4)

no more

1. nothing further.
   "there was no more to be said about it"
2. no further.
   "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
3. exist no longer.
   "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
4. never again.
   "mention his name no more to me"
5. neither.
   "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"

Definitions from Oxford Languages

Definition of finished

1 : entirely done Are you finished yet? : brought to a completed state reviewing a finished manuscript a finished job To keep a finished drawing from being smeared or soiled, spray it with a fixative. —

Finished Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Fact.

A human man adult as a human man is a human man. Use truth only.

If that man says I'm a son of man it means he was born as a human baby is hence a son of man.

Now if you ask a scientific Theist what does the lettered science name JESUS mean to you. As you say God number code letter yourself i.e. YHWH. Etc.

Yourselves. Ask yourself what you mean in science terms only.

I.e. in old terms also meant j.e.
An example.

Sus in Satanism science beast secrecy was pig snout scrofia.

Aligned to Sanskrit animal God term symbolism. Wild boar. All AI old life attack UFO causes fallout.

So in fact you think your conversation is what satanist science is reviewing. When It's not. They own other intentions. They give letters numbers use it as data maths.

∆ science term as it's secret snout.

Ask why they don't tell the truth? As they hid their deceit in secret writing's whilst data inferring it.

Therefore as natural human science isn't science its healer terms. All life is equal.

Man's theist self idolisation gets removed when you tell just human truth.

Don't use titles they are false. As the story is about all life sacrificed. As it still is all life sacrificed.

Bushes nature burnt evicted
Animals before and now UFO attacked.
Humans attacked. The same ALL.

Men said I knew pyramid science caused fallout above. Attacking mans plus garden life. Which you also do not reference..

As no human man was ever special.

Science of man however began when King's owned then built civilisation on slavery. King lord was also the baby adult scientist man high priest of science technology.

Ignored. Teaching false preachers sacrificed their own baby man life. Why they use king and lord memory theirselves. Looking back making testimonial.about themselves

Once a holy mans life like their human spiritual father.

Natural man is equal no title whatsoever.

As in life equal no human was actually poor. No human was a king or a lord.

They were human and equal.

If you don't keep that advice in mind when interpreting a testimonial you don't interpret correctly.

Father's advice. Knowing him as a mans spiritual perfection as compared to man sacrificed not yet healed life now.

Is exact.

2012 life conscious healing didn't occur. Nuclear was chosen instead.

I mourn his non presence in our life. I stated crying hearing his human daughters conscious advice already crying. It's real.

Our brothers mind was changed.

Brain burnt star fall did it.

Father said think about natural history. All bio life had died. Nature trees owned underground roots. End dinosaurs life.

Ice.

Then end ice age.

When ice naturally melted as atmosphere was in fact hot. Tree growth grew now stunted.

Ice existed and ice had melted.

Before humans reowned life. No thesis.

Star fall hence melted ice too. ICE shifts mass then re snap froze. Advice. In the moment.

Affected everything you believed as a man theorising. Saviour ice taught. Non presence of ice in mass was when he owned life.

His human contradicted advice was about Ice.

Why men taught only ice by mass presence had saved life. As star melted it again.

Man was the ice by terms saviour.

How it was taught is how you misconceived being advised.

Therefore if a man is a man first he is.

If first man was unnaturally sacrificed conscious changed by Satan star God. He was.

Then man theoried non existing science. As he wasn't copying natural.

The theist in science was a king. Was rich first. Was a lord of science technology and trade.

So the theme I could retheory my own memory man scientists theist. The memory would own all human civilization titles. Proving you did it to yourself.

As men back in those times pretended they were a man God on the throne owning all earths riches himself.

Is exactly taught. I remembered what I did to myself. Bible. My own confession. A legal testimony.

TransmutingSoul said:

This is a warning given in scriptures, that we submit to God and do not think ourselves full of the Holy Spirit.

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No, Paul's warning is that we don't think of ourselves without sin or able to attain justification by ourselves - through our works.

Trailblazer said:

That's true. Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man and the title Son of Man is connected with Jesus' earthly life and His sufferings.

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... and as the King coming at the judgment day and fully take over his kingship.

"And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead." (Acts 10:42)

31“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.

34“Then the King will say to those on His right... (Mt 25)

"For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done." (Mt 16:27)

"Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne..." (Mt 19:28)

Again the high priest was questioning Him, and *said to Him, “Are You the [ai]Christ, the Son of [aj]the Blessed One?” 62And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63Tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? 64You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned Him as deserving of death. (Mr 14)

PearlSeeker said:

... and as the King coming at the judgment day and fully take over his kingship.

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Jesus never claimed to be a King, He disclaimed it and then He explained the reason He came into the world.
John 18

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

PearlSeeker said:

"Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne..." (Mt 19:28)

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Jesus sits on His glorious throne in heaven, not on earth.

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.”
Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

Bible prophecies unequivocally prove that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ.
How the prophecies were fulfilled is explained in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

Some of those prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are depicted in the following 10 minute video.


As the return of Christ, Baha’u’llah is sitting on the throne of David and ruling over earth.

“The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

Trailblazer said:

Jesus sits on His glorious throne in heaven, not on earth.

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... until judgement day.

PearlSeeker said:

... until judgement day.

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Baha'is believe Judgement Day has already come. We are living in it now and it will continue during this world cycle.


Christ spoke much in parables about a great Day of Judgment when “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father … and … shall reward every man according to his works” (Matt. xvi, 27). He compares this Day to the time of harvest, when the tares are burned and the wheat gathered into barns:—

… so shall it be in the end of this world [consummation of the age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.—Matt. xiii, 40–43.

The phrase “end of the world” used in the Authorized Version of the Bible in this and similar passages has led many to suppose that when the Day of Judgment comes, the earth will suddenly be destroyed, but this is evidently a mistake. The 220 true translation of the phrase appears to be “the consummation or end of the age.” Christ teaches that the Kingdom of the Father is to be established on earth, as well as in heaven. He teaches us to pray: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” In the parable of the Vineyard, when the Father, the Lord of the Vineyard, comes to destroy the wicked husbandmen, He does not destroy the vineyard (the world) also, but lets it out to other husbandmen, who will render Him the fruits in their season. The earth is not to be destroyed, but to be renewed and regenerated. Christ speaks of that day on another occasion as “the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory.” St. Peter speaks of it as “the times of refreshing,” “the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” The Day of Judgment of which Christ speaks is evidently identical with the coming of the Lord of Hosts, the Father, which was prophesied by Isaiah and the other Old Testament prophets; a time of terrible punishment for the wicked, but a time in which justice shall be established and righteousness rule, on earth as in heaven.

In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.

Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 219-220

PearlSeeker said:

... until judgement day.

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Welcome to that day.

Regards Tony

Trailblazer said:

The 220 true translation of the phrase appears to be “the consummation or end of the age.” Christ teaches that the Kingdom of the Father is to be established on earth, as well as in heaven. He teaches us to pray: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” In the parable of the Vineyard, when the Father, the Lord of the Vineyard, comes to destroy the wicked husbandmen, He does not destroy the vineyard (the world) also, but lets it out to other husbandmen, who will render Him the fruits in their season. The earth is not to be destroyed, but to be renewed and regenerated.

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Agree. I think this is also the general Christian Interpretation.

Trailblazer said:

In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.

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TransmutingSoul said:

Welcome to that day.

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Some followed Jesus and some rejected him during his lifetime (on earth). Yes, you can see this already as judgement, because those who rejected Jesus already judged themselves (in GofJohn Jesus also said something like this). But Jesus (Bible) predicted also one final judgement and one judge/King over all. This will be Jesus himself. There is nothing about other/furhter Manifestations.

Why the final judgement is NOT now:
- there are still many governments in the world
- we don't have one King over all seating on his throne and judging all the living and the dead
- the wicked aren't being removed
- there are still wars
...

You can say we are in what Bible describes as "the end days" (the time right before the second coming/judgment day) but this can be a loooong time...

PearlSeeker said:

But Jesus (Bible) predicted also one final judgement and one judge/King over all. This will be Jesus himself. There is nothing about other/furhter Manifestations.

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That is Baha'u'llah, the Judgement is unfolding. Personally I see you have misinterpreted the scriptures to think you will see the flesh of Jesus again.

But Jesus has sent the Spirit of Truth with a new Name in the Station of the Father as promised.

Regards Tony

PearlSeeker said:

Continuation of this debate:

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Messianic saviors came into the Hebrew culture in 500BC when the Persians took over. The Persians were kind to the Hebrews and allowed the leaders to return from exile. Many elements from the Persian religion were added to or helped form Christianity. Revelations, God vs Satan, messianic saviors and other theology.

The expert in the Persian religion is Mary Boyce:

Belief in a world Saviour

An important theological development during the dark ages of 'the faith concerned the growth of beliefs about the Saoshyant or coming Saviour. Passages in the Gathas suggest that Zoroaster was filled with a sense that the end of the world was imminent, and that Ahura Mazda had entrusted him with revealed truth in order to rouse mankind for their vital part in the final struggle. Yet he must have realized that he would not himself live to see Frasho-kereti; and he seems to have taught that after him there would come 'the man who is better than a good man' (Y 43.3), the Saoshyant. The literal meaning of Saoshyant is 'one who will bring benefit' ; and it is he who will lead humanity in the last battle against evil.c and so there is no betrayal, in this development of belief in the Saoshyant, of Zoroaster's own teachings about the part which mankind has to play in the great cosmic struggle. The Saoshyant is thought of as being accompanied, like kings and heroes, by Khvarenah, and it is in Yasht r 9 that the extant Avesta has most to tell of him. Khvarenah, it is said there (vv. 89, 92, 93), 'will accompany the victorious Saoshyant ... so that he may restore 9 existence .... When Astvat-ereta comes out from the Lake K;tsaoya, messenger of Mazda Ahura ... then he will drive the Drug out from the world of Asha.' This glorious moment was longed for by the faithful, and the hope of it was to be their strength and comfort in times of adversity.

Just as belief in the coming Saviour developed its element of the miraculous, so, naturally, the person of the prophet himself came to be magnified as the centuries passed. Thus in the Younger Avesta, although never divinized, Zoroaster is exalted as 'the first priest, the first warrior, the first herdsman ... master and judge of the world' (Yt 13. 89, 9 1), one at whose birth 'the waters and plants ... and all the creatures of the Good Creation rejoiced' (Y t 13.99). Angra Mainyu, it is said, fled at that moment from the earth (Yt 17. 19); but he returned to tempt the prophet in vain, with a promise of earthly power, to abjure the faith of Ahura Mazda (Vd 19 .6


Zoroastrians-Their-Religious-Beliefs-and-Practices-MaryBoyce

PearlSeeker said:

Agree. I think this is also the general Christian Interpretation.

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Yes, but the difference is that Christians believe that Jesus is going to bring the kingdom of God to earth, despite the fact that Jesus said his work was 'finished' here and He was 'no more' in the world.