Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Please show me where Christ taught that care for the poor was to be done by the government no the church?
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England was killed by an idea
- Thread starter Truth in love
- Start date
Please show me where Christ taught that care for the poor was to be done by the government no the church?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
England was great. It became weak. It actively discourages work by many by paying them to not work.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Every person spending money they did not earn means a person earned money they cannot spend. Therefore the more people not working the less money (food cloths etc) can be had. It leads to less freedom and less prosperity.
I love helping the poor, I love education, but the methods matter.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It's interesting how people strongly tie him to the Soviet Union and China, but Ulyanov himself wrote Marx was not that much of an influence on how he approached things.
But, then again, Marx didn't really write much on how to get from here to his ultimate goal of an anarchy guided by the proletariat.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Are you assuming the recipients of welfare don't work?
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Hmm… I’ll try this one final time:
1. During which historical period did the England that Smoot described as “great”, exist?
2. What did that “great” version of England (back then, not now) do with its “weak, indolent and profligate” people?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Show me where he said the government is to provide food and drug safety standards? Where did he say the government should enforce medical licensing? Tell me where he said the state gets to dictate marriage. Tell me where he says the government gets to allow discrimination on the grounds of a religious belief?
Jesus was a religious teacher, not socio-political philosopher. And we don't live in a theocracy. The state is not obligated or mandated to be ran in accordance to your religious views.
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How does a 'classless society' have élites?
Power in the hands of a few élites is what we have now, it's what capitalism is -- power in the hands of the factory and business owners and a largely powerless workforce unable to alter the rules imposed by the owner class.
No! In socialism the state is the individual. There is no ruling élite. "The State" is a co-op.
Nobody is bankrupted by medical bills.
These are not Marxist states. They are totalitarian states, with a small ruling élite and a massive impoverished and repressed population -- exactly the opposite of the socialism we're talking about.
Socialism is democracy, not totalitarianism. Socialism is égalitarian and co-operative. There is no "state" separate from the people.
Again, what you're calling "communist" is not what any of us is advocating. It's not the socialism we're talking about.
You seem stuck in this 1050's idea of communism/socialism as totalitarian repression. Socialism is freedom, opportunity and democracy.
But the examples you call communist were never communist! They may have called themselves communist or socialist, but they did not conform to the definitions of these systems.
The people never chose or voted for their misery and death, therefore, not socialist!
Socialism is égalitarian democracy -- by definition. People choose their siuations.
Socialism is all about the human rights of the individual; its family values, with everyone having input and everyone pulling together for the common good. It's about ensuring noöne goes without basic needs. That's what defines "social."
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I know exactly what it is, what it's based on, and how it's implemented because I've studied it in depth. You simply do not know what you're talking about and using, not Jesus' words, but secular right-wing propaganda.
You are not telling the Truth that Jesus insisted we must do, and I don't like dealing with people who just talk-the-talk but don't walk-the-walk. Thus, this is our last discussion.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It can be done by both since the government is an extension of us in a representative democracy like we and the Scandinavian countries have. Plus, I posted earlier that part of the key to this understanding is the Parable of the Widow' Mite that you obviously just blew off.
Goodbye.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
No, in some cases they work, in some cases they are limited in what work they can do. However every dollar of goods they have that they did not work for is more than a dollar of goods that someone else worked for and does not have.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
The widows might was not about forced government welfare.
You keep making clams, but you can't show me any Biblical source for socialism.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
I don't know the exact era he was referring to.
what was done to the people is they were placed in housing units, told they did not need to put in effort to support themselves and many have lost sight and hope of providing for their own needs.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Most of what you mentioned above are not the job of the government.
We are not supposed to have a theocracy. That is my point. The government should stop trying to run a church (Welfare marriages etc.)
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
In capitalism people can get a lot of power. I as a person always have the options to not take part in their system. In Socialism the power is held by a monopoly and if I don't want to play their game I'm going to prison or some other serious punishment.
If the factory owner can be a abusive jerks whats to stop those in power of the state?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Funny. It seems that people can't afford their care even there. (link below). I've spoken to many people the medical care is limited and when the fund runs out you often don't get a big bill AND you don't get medical care.
When the Stars of <em>Titanic</em> Helped Pay the Bills for the Last <em>Titanic</em> Survivor
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Socialism is control. It has some nice lipstick, buts its still a pig.
When is the state not invested in growing its own power?
If the state wants me to X and I do Y what happens?
So where is this greet utopia running? I already pointed out that Sweden is not it. You reject Russa and China. Denmark has very low wealth per capita vs freeer states. Last I looked nearly every European nation greatly limited access to colleges and guns. So where is it working well?
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
The laws in Leviticus 25 were given by god. They weren't voluntary.