Are you a liar?

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Of course not. The only rational thing to do is assume - for no particular reason - that an invisible magic god and his invisible magic son, along with their army of invisible magic angels, will fix all of our problems.

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I found that a magical, mythical god won’t and more like a placebo affect that is short lived but when a person has an encounter with the living God and is born again they are changed, standing on a firm foundation and that is Jesus Christ. That’s what happened to me, He did and does fix all my problems.
As far as the OP and my experience, makes sense that if a person denies Jesus is the Christ, wouldn’t they be anti-Christ? Isn’t that the spirit behind that mindset? Isn’t that spirit of anti-Christ a deceiving, lying spirit?

F1fan said:

With millions of Christians disagreeing about what it is. And all Christians think they are correct. And none can show us they are correct.

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John 7:16-17

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

You might ask how do I know what his will is given that the Truth has been lost. What do you think is the answer to this Riddle?

Elihoenai said:

John 7:16-17

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

You might ask how do I know what his will is given that the Truth has been lost. What do you think is the answer to this Riddle?

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That religions are man-made, and they change over time due to opportunities by leadership, and also that follows the flow of society's attitudes. For example Christianity is split on whether believers accept evolution or reject it in favor of a religious view called creationism. Some Christians even mix the two as some sort of bad compromise. This is why there are some 44,000 sects under the umbrella of Christianity. Doesn't exactly suggests there is a "truth", does it?

Redemptionsong said:

Christ is the righteousness of God.

To receive Christ one must repent and believe in Jesus as Christ. Then one will be baptised in the Holy Spirit.

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"Christ", whose name is the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), represents the "Word of God", the Law and the prophets, being believed. One must "repent" of sinning, which is to say, not sin again after repenting, and first one must confess his sins, and then produce good fruit, or otherwise they will be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). If one is "baptized" in the "Spirit", "born of God", they will not be able to sin (1 John 3:9) for "His seed (Word) abides in him. The "righteousness" of Yeshua, has little to do with a sinners destiny, for "everyone will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). Believing the false prophet Paul, instead of heeding the message of Yeshua, is a wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13)

Redemptionsong said:

Correct.

If you read Ephesians 4 we are told that the Church should be equipped 'for the perfecting of the saints'.

In comparing Gentiles to the Church, Paul says, 'But you have not so learned Christ;
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness'.

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Keep in mind, that Ephesus is the home of the false apostle and his rants. (Revelation 2:2) As for Paul, he never "heard him", nor was he "taught by him" (Ephesians 4) and he and his followers apparently don't "heed" his message (Matthew 7:24-27) and they are destined to "fall", and be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:25). But then again, they are among the "deceived" as they "dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13), and are counted among the "many" following the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:13-15) on the way to "destruction".

F1fan said:

The “truth” is subjective then. Anything goes.

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The only Truth is through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. The only way to Reunion with God/Elohim is through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

F1fan said:

In what way do theists control atheist’s thinking? Give us some examples so we can be clear about what you are claiming.

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The Theistic Satanist destroy Real Christians and make Unbelievers (Atheists) in God/Elohim. Satan is a Supernatural Entity.

Theistic Satanism

Theistic Satanism, otherwise referred to as religious Satanism, spiritual Satanism, or traditional Satanism,[1] is an umbrella term for religious groups that consider Satan to be an objectively existing deity, supernatural entity, or spiritual being which is worthy of worship and supplication whom individuals may contact, convene with, and even praise, rather than just an archetype, a metaphor, a symbol, or an idea as in LaVeyan Satanism.

Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia

F1fan said:

You’d think would either make sure that didn’t happen or would renew the info to someone. That’s bad luck.

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That's making the assumption that those in charge want the Truth to get out. The confusion was deliberately created in the Churches.

F1fan said:

So you are an extremist?

Do you think your religious beliefs have authority over others?

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Yes, happy to say I'm an Ultra Extremist, although a non-violent one. Hopefully, the true Christian Religious beliefs has supreme Power and Authority over others.

Elihoenai said:

The only Truth is through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. The only way to Reunion with God/Elohim is through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

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That's what you say. I'm not convinced.

The Theistic Satanist destroy Real Christians and make Unbelievers (Atheists) in God/Elohim. Satan is a Supernatural Entity.

Theistic Satanism

Theistic Satanism, otherwise referred to as religious Satanism, spiritual Satanism, or traditional Satanism,[1] is an umbrella term for religious groups that consider Satan to be an objectively existing deity, supernatural entity, or spiritual being which is worthy of worship and supplication whom individuals may contact, convene with, and even praise, rather than just an archetype, a metaphor, a symbol, or an idea as in LaVeyan Satanism.

Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia

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Couldn't you be one of these people, as you claim an absolute truth but are just a fallible mortal prone to error, and you could be trying to deceive others.

If you were humble it would suggest you aren't being deceptive. So you sabotage your own assertions here.

That's making the assumption that those in charge want the Truth to get out. The confusion was deliberately created in the Churches.

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Yet those leaders claim to have the truth, just as you are. So with so many different Christians claiming they have the truth, who is correct? None of you can offer any test in reality, it's all just personal interpretation and opinion.

Yes, happy to say I'm an Ultra Extremist, although a non-violent one. Hopefully, the true Christian Religious beliefs has supreme Power and Authority over others.

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Extremism in religion is a liability. You are still a fallible mortal, not a God. So the more certain you are that you have the truth the farther away you get from humility. The more you claim absolute truth, and can't demonstrate you actually have it, the more deceptive your view becomes. So you trap yourself with your own extremism.

Redemptionsong said:

Correct.

If you read Ephesians 4 we are told that the Church should be equipped 'for the perfecting of the saints'.

In comparing Gentiles to the Church, Paul says, 'But you have not so learned Christ;
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness'.

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Do you know of any Church that has Saints? How do you become a Saint?

F1fan said:

What does this mean is simple terms?


What does a person "receive" exactly when they receive Christ? Explain this process and what happens.


And what does this mean? Baptizing is a physical ritual, so explain this claim.

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The righteousness of God is the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is holy.

In the OT, we get glimpses of the spiritual presence of God dwelling amongst men, as in the tabernacle and in Solomon's temple. There are also encounters with the Lord, had by Abraham, Moses and others. All these encounters confirm the holy nature and power of God.

When God gives men his law, the law is good because its author is good. But law is intended to discipline the behaviour of a man's outward actions, not his inner Spirit. For example, one of the Ten Commandments states that 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' [Exodus 20:14]. This is the law. To be righteous under the law, one must not commit adultery (or break any other commandment).

When Jesus appeared, he set an even higher standard. He said, 'whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her in his heart'. [Matthew 5:28]

Wow! Suddenly, people start asking, Well how can we possibly hope to be righteous if the bar is set so high?

Now you got it. You can't do it without the Spirit of Christ!

We're all sinners because we all fall short of the glory of God. No one is righteous in the sight of God except...Jesus Christ. Why? Because he was, and is, 'God with us'.

To be baptised in the Spirit means that you receive the righteous Spirit of Christ. It's not ours to boast about! It's grace, a free gift.

Elihoenai said:

Do you know of any Church that has Saints? How do you become a Saint?

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A saint in NT parlance is a 'born again' believer. It's someone who is being sanctified by the work of the Spirit.

2ndpillar said:

"Christ", whose name is the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), represents the "Word of God", the Law and the prophets, being believed. One must "repent" of sinning, which is to say, not sin again after repenting, and first one must confess his sins, and then produce good fruit, or otherwise they will be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). If one is "baptized" in the "Spirit", "born of God", they will not be able to sin (1 John 3:9) for "His seed (Word) abides in him. The "righteousness" of Yeshua, has little to do with a sinners destiny, for "everyone will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). Believing the false prophet Paul, instead of heeding the message of Yeshua, is a wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13)

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When we repent we are repenting of self-righteousness. How can you repent of sin if you are incapable of fulfilling your repentance? It's only God that can save you from sin. You cannot save yourself.

Instead, we repent of self-righteousness, and we ask for the righteousness of God by faith!

If everyone dies for their own iniquities then we are all doomed. However, if we live by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, who did no sin, what hold does sin have over us? Christ becomes 'the resurrection and the life' in us!

Redemptionsong said:

When we repent we are repenting of self-righteousness. How can you repent of sin if you are incapable of fulfilling your repentance? It's only God that can save you from sin. You cannot save yourself.

Instead, we repent of self-righteousness, and we ask for the righteousness of God by faith!

If everyone dies for their own iniquities then we are all doomed. However, if we live by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, who did no sin, what hold does sin have over us? Christ becomes 'the resurrection and the life' in us!

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"Everyone will die" (Jeremiah 31:30). You suffer your illnesses because your sins remain with you. You can "ask for the righteousness of God by faith", but you will remain sick and still die. Death is held over everyone due to their sin. No one will escape death. One is to repent of their sin, which is transgression of the law. Self righteousness is believing what you think is righteous while nailing the righteousness of God, his Law, to the cross. If you want to be healed, you must first find someone who is righteous, and confess your sins, and ask them to pray to God for your forgiveness, because the prayer of the sinner is not heard by God. (James 5:16).

Redemptionsong said:

The righteousness of God is the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is holy.

In the OT, we get glimpses of the spiritual presence of God dwelling amongst men, as in the tabernacle and in Solomon's temple. There are also encounters with the Lord, had by Abraham, Moses and others. All these encounters confirm the holy nature and power of God.

When God gives men his law, the law is good because its author is good. But law is intended to discipline the behaviour of a man's outward actions, not his inner Spirit. For example, one of the Ten Commandments states that 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' [Exodus 20:14]. This is the law. To be righteous under the law, one must not commit adultery (or break any other commandment).

When Jesus appeared, he set an even higher standard. He said, 'whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her in his heart'. [Matthew 5:28]

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Yet God allows children to be born with genes that cause cancers. And many of these children die despite the best efforts of doctors. So I find all these strict religious rules pretty ridiculous if God won't even protect innocent children.

Wow! Suddenly, people start asking, Well how can we possibly hope to be righteous if the bar is set so high?

Now you got it. You can't do it without the Spirit of Christ!

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That is what the middlemen to God say and want you to buy into there dogma, so you will obey what they say. And of course, none of us know if any Gods exist, so it's a huge bluff. I'm not convinced.

We're all sinners because we all fall short of the glory of God. No one is righteous in the sight of God except...Jesus Christ. Why? Because he was, and is, 'God with us'.

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I'm not a sinner. I don't agree with what your dogma claims, so leave me out of it. Only Christians are sinners.

To be baptised in the Spirit means that you receive the righteous Spirit of Christ. It's not ours to boast about! It's grace, a free gift.

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This explains nothing. But why believe this at all? I notice more of your posts are highly abstract and detached.

2ndpillar said:

"Everyone will die" (Jeremiah 31:30). You suffer your illnesses because your sins remain with you. You can "ask for the righteousness of God by faith", but you will remain sick and still die. Death is held over everyone due to their sin. No one will escape death. One is to repent of their sin, which is transgression of the law. Self righteousness is believing what you think is righteous while nailing the righteousness of God, his Law, to the cross. If you want to be healed, you must first find someone who is righteous, and confess your sins, and ask them to pray to God for your forgiveness, because the prayer of the sinner is not heard by God. (James 5:16).

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Only when the law is fulfilled do you have the righteousness of God. The only man to fulfil the law is Jesus Christ.

You cannot fulfil the law without the Spirit of Christ.

This is why Paul says what he does in Romans 10:1-4.

F1fan said:

Yet God allows children to be born with genes that cause cancers. And many of these children die despite the best efforts of doctors. So I find all these strict religious rules pretty ridiculous if God won't even protect innocent children.


That is what the middlemen to God say and want you to buy into there dogma, so you will obey what they say. And of course, none of us know if any Gods exist, so it's a huge bluff. I'm not convinced.


I'm not a sinner. I don't agree with what your dogma claims, so leave me out of it. Only Christians are sinners.


This explains nothing. But why believe this at all? I notice more of your posts are highly abstract and detached.

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When God first created, He called his creation 'good'. It was not sick or diseased. Yet, after sin entered the world, all manner of evil is found.

Judged by the righteousness of God, we are all sinners. This should be obvious.

As John says, 'lf we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us'. [1 John 1:8]

2ndpillar said:

"Everyone will die" (Jeremiah 31:30). You suffer your illnesses because your sins remain with you. You can "ask for the righteousness of God by faith", but you will remain sick and still die. Death is held over everyone due to their sin. No one will escape death. One is to repent of their sin, which is transgression of the law. Self righteousness is believing what you think is righteous while nailing the righteousness of God, his Law, to the cross. If you want to be healed, you must first find someone who is righteous, and confess your sins, and ask them to pray to God for your forgiveness, because the prayer of the sinner is not heard by God. (James 5:16).

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Death is the punishment God promised on all who sin. We have all sinned, and will all experience death. But what about the soul? Will our souls experience the 'second death'? [Revelation 20:6]

If we repent and receive the baptism of Jesus Christ, then we receive of His 'resurrection life', and our souls are made alive. At His coming, the faithful will receive a new spiritual body and they will be drawn to Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Redemptionsong said:

When God first created, He called his creation 'good'.

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According to the Genesis myths.

It was not sick or diseased. Yet, after sin entered the world, all manner of evil is found.

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It wasn't found, it was created by the God. Unless you are suggesting it was an accident, and if so, this God is incompetent. If you suggest God is perfect or doesn't make mistakes, then how the universe was created is EXACTLY as intended.

If you build something with the intent of it lasting 100 years, and it starts falling apart after 10 years, you screwed up.

Judged by the righteousness of God, we are all sinners. This should be obvious.

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I don't accept this religious dogma, so it isn't applicable to me. I don't recognize the concept of sin, so I'm not a sinner.

If you decide to believe all these ideas are true, then you are a sinner, and you decide to deal with the consequences that your religions says.

As John says, 'lf we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us'. [1 John 1:8]

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And the Bible has no authority over me or anyone else who doesn't assign it authority or significance.

Do you agree?

Redemptionsong said:

Death is the punishment God promised on all who sin. We have all sinned, and will all experience death. But what about the soul? Will our souls experience the 'second death'? [Revelation 20:6]

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Or this is just a religious concept that was designed with the reality of people dying, like all other organisms.

If we repent and receive the baptism of Jesus Christ, then we receive of His 'resurrection life', and our souls are made alive. At His coming, the faithful will receive a new spiritual body and they will be drawn to Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

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Do you think this actually happens? If so, why? And what do you think this means in your belief system?

F1fan said:

If you build something with the intent of it lasting 100 years, and it starts falling apart after 10 years, you screwed up.

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And if someone doesn’t follow the instructions it’s that person that screwed up, why did you use regular gas for that Diesel engine? Plus it said to put oil in before using.

ElishaElijah said:

And if someone doesn’t follow the instructions it’s that person that screwed up, why did you use regular gas for that Diesel engine? Plus it said to put oil in before using.

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Good point. How well did A&E understand and know the full scope of the consequences? It's like some teenage girl who is ignorant about gas and diesel differences and makes a poor decision. She didn't know what she was doing because she lacked the necessary knowledge. To really make this analogy work the girl's parents have to make sure she didn't know about the difference of fuels, and sent her to a specific gas station that also had pink handles on the diesel spigots, as that would tempt her to use one of them. Then when she puts diesel in her car and it's ruined, you can't really blame her. You have to blame the parents who did not explain the fuel types, and who sent her to a specific place where she would be tempted to use a pink handled spigot.

Even if a teenage girl wasn't tempted and just made a random error, it's not as if the parents could foresee her error like God can, right? God can foresee what his creation does, or can't it?

Of course A&E got duped and tempted, and that's because they were created naive and didn't have the necessary knowledge of the consequences. Do you really think A&E would break the rules if they knew little children would get cancer as a result? No, they weren't told.

One way to save your God from this horrible scenario, and being held accountable for children dying of cancer, is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. That's on literalist Christians. These folks make an unprovoked error by adopting this type of interpretation. The irony is that this decision (to interpret Genesis literally) means they hold God accountable for the consequences of the Fall since that was God's design. A&E was God's design. It suggests God is either inept or corrupt. God either makes mistakes, or it doesn't. If God really, really wanted to make obedient people don't you you think God could pull it off?