Are you a liar?

[Redemptionsong]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

Perhaps this would be as good time as any to remind ourselves that only God may pass spiritual judgement and, that when Man thinks himself entitled to judge his brother, he himself is most likely committing a sin.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Rival]

My God is the true God since my God said so and everyone else is a liar.

Right...

 

[F1fan]

Being a "liar" in regards to what the Bible might promote depends on whether the person assumes the Bible is factual and truthful.

I don't assume the Bible is factual or truthful so I am exempt from this dilemma.

 

[Altfish]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

So, let me get this straight.
You are quoting from a book allegedly written by this god, that says if you don't believe in the author you are a liar.
Can I have a second opinion please

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ?

By assuming that he is correct and those that disagree with him are lying. That knife cuts two ways. I consider John and Christianity itself wrong. Shall I call him and his religion liars and lies as well?

Do you respect that comment from John? It's what I expect from people not able to do better to defend their beliefs than slander those who don't hold them - you know, the 'when they go low' stuff, we go higher?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim

No, the Christians have no foundation but an ancient holy book written by people who didn't know where the rain came from, and who didn't recognize that slavery, homophobia, and misogyny were moral failings. This is further evidence of Christian exceptionalism, the idea that if it comes from it's holy books, an idea is correct and just, which leads to many people assuming that their beliefs set some kind of standard that no other system of thought can achieve.

But why would a secular humanist agree with that when he has a rational system of ethics based in social justice that addresses problems ancient holy books don't address in their scriptures, scriptures which end up promoting injustices if believed, injustices humanism rejects. From where the humanist sits, it's the religionist with no legitimate basis to make claims at all about truth or justice based both the irrational method used to arrive at them and their failure to identify either truth or justice as the humanist defines them.

If you consider this reply hostile to religion, please note that it is a rebuttal to the idea that those who don't believe in Jesus are liars and have "no rock to stand on." It is kinder to religion than the religion is to outsiders because it merely disagrees without calling anybody a liar. Now that's a hostile judgment, and the basis for my wanting to demonstrate the inadequacy of both the Christian moral theory and its epistemology relative to the humanistic counterpart outside of its religion that it slanders, but cannot equal.

Treat that with respect, and get respect in return. Treat that with contempt and an unearned sense of moral and intellectual superiority, and receive answers that explain why the opposite is the case.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

Dosent really do much with something that only exists on paper.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Perhaps this would be as good time as any to remind ourselves that only God may pass spiritual judgement and, that when Man thinks himself entitled to judge his brother, he himself is most likely committing a sin.


Humbly
Hermit

I think you're quite right. The Word of God judges us all!

 

[Redemptionsong]

My God is the true God since my God said so and everyone else is a liar.

Right...

My God? Is there not one God? One truth?

 

[Rival]

My God? Is there not one God? One truth?

What you believe is true is not the same as what I believe.

I don't know why nearly everyone on RF manages to misconstrue 'your God' when I clearly mean 'the God you believe in'.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Being a "liar" in regards to what the Bible might promote depends on whether the person assumes the Bible is factual and truthful.

I don't assume the Bible is factual or truthful so I am exempt from this dilemma.

Are you? That all depends on whether God is truth, and whether Christ is 'God with us'!

Do you think that a denial of truth exempts you from judgment?

 

[Redemptionsong]

So, let me get this straight.
You are quoting from a book allegedly written by this god, that says if you don't believe in the author you are a liar.
Can I have a second opinion please

Only if there's an alternative judge!

 

[VoidCat]

Your God and your belief system is not mine. You can keep it.
Imma sit here with my multiple gods one of which is Lucifer but not the Lucifer of the bible.
Imma sit here denying your Christ cuz that's what a book I dont follow says about a deity I don't worship nor even know if I believe in.

You have not demonstrated to me im a liar cuz your proof is your belief system that I don't follow.

 

[Redemptionsong]

By assuming that he is correct and those that disagree with him are lying. That knife cuts two ways. I consider John and Christianity itself wrong. Shall I call him and his religion liars and lies as well?

Do you respect that comment from John? It's what I expect from people not able to do better to defend their beliefs than slander those who don't hold them - you know, the 'when they go low' stuff, we go higher?



No, the Christians have no foundation but an ancient holy book written by people who didn't know where the rain came from, and who didn't recognize that slavery, homophobia, and misogyny were moral failings. This is further evidence of Christian exceptionalism, the idea that if it comes from it's holy books, an idea is correct and just, which leads to many people assuming that their beliefs set some kind of standard that no other system of thought can achieve.

But why would a secular humanist agree with that when he has a rational system of ethics based in social justice that addresses problems ancient holy books don't address in their scriptures, scriptures which end up promoting injustices if believed, injustices humanism rejects. From where the humanist sits, it's the religionist with no legitimate basis to make claims at all about truth or justice based both the irrational method used to arrive at them and their failure to identify either truth or justice as the humanist defines them.

If you consider this reply hostile to religion, please note that it is a rebuttal to the idea that those who don't believe in Jesus are liars and have "no rock to stand on." It is kinder to religion than the religion is to outsiders because it merely disagrees without calling anybody a liar. Now that's a hostile judgment, and the basis for my wanting to demonstrate the inadequacy of both the Christian moral theory and its epistemology relative to the humanistic counterpart outside of its religion that it slanders, but cannot equal.

Treat that with respect, and get respect in return. Treat that with contempt and an unearned sense of moral and intellectual superiority, and receive answers that explain why the opposite is the case.

That's the beauty of freewill. You get the chance to call John a liar, and the Bible a book of lies.

Jesus was very clear when he stated, 'He that is not with me is against me'.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

A God of love? Not hardly. How could your loving God allow an estimated 11 million people (including 6 million of his own chosen people) to be murdered in cold blood by the Nazis and do nothing to stop it? How could your God of love allow countless people to be brutally murdered, sexually assaulted (rape, molestation), abused, and die of deadly diseases and viruses? Why does your God turn a blind eye to all the violence and human suffering in the world, and he does absolutely nothing to intervene and stop it?

Finally, where was your God of love when I was being abused (physically, psychologically, sexually) and often beaten to an inch of my life while I was growing up? And for the record, I believed in your God of love when I was a child, and I frantically prayed to him for years begging him to save me from the abuse and pain I was suffering. But your God of love obviously didn't care about me because I suffered all that horrific abuse for 13 1/2 years. The abuse didn't stop until I confronted my abusers face to face shortly after I turned 18. Your God of love couldn't be bothered to save me from being abused when I was growing up, and he's obviously not concerned about all the countless innocent children around the world who suffer abuse at the hands of human monsters.

Where is your (all-powerful, all-knowing, ever-present) loving and merciful God, and why does he allow all the brutal violence and immeasurable human suffering in the world? And please don't blame his creation (humanity or Lucifer). Don't you think that the all-knowing, all-powerful CREATOR is personally responsible? He has infinite power and infinite knowledge, and his creation does not.

 

[Psalm23]

Your God and your belief system is not mine. You can keep it.
Imma sit here with my multiple gods one of which is Lucifer but not the Lucifer of the bible.
Imma sit here denying your Christ cuz that's what a book I dont follow says about a deity I don't worship nor even know if I believe in.

You have not demonstrated to me im a liar cuz your proof is your belief system that I don't follow.

Out of curiosity, what Lucifer do you mean?

 

[Redemptionsong]

What you believe is true is not the same as what I believe.

I don't know why nearly everyone on RF manages to misconstrue 'your God' when I clearly mean 'the God you believe in'.

Do you believe in one God?

 

[Rival]

Do you believe in one God?

Yes.

 

[Psalm23]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

Reading this I also thought of how the Bible teaches all are liars( see Psalms 116:11 ). What do you think John means in 1 John 2:22 by calling them liars?

 

[Left Coast]

The evangelist John asks a very challenging question in his first epistle (1 John 2:22). He asks, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

He goes on to say, 'He is an anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:'

Strong words from a man who preached a God of love!

But, how does one arrive at the position that a man is a liar if he denies that Jesus is Christ? I guess the opening premise is that God is Truth [Deut. 32:4 etc]. From here one can reasonably deduce that God's Word is true, and that Christ, coming from God, is the Word of God [Rev. 19:13]. If this be the case, then a denial of Christ is a denial of truth [John 14:6]. To deny truth is to make truth a lie. Is this, therefore, the unforgivable sin?

Christ deniers really have no rock to stand on when 'truth' becomes a victim, as happens in war. Where is the hope of justice if there is no God to hear your cry? If your daughter is raped and murdered by soldiers, or your son tortured, tied and shot in the back of the head, how do you respond? Hate and seek revenge? Add your vitriol to the great hell of war? Seek justice from courts that may never provide justice? Give up on life itself, with no hope of glory?

I'm with Paul, who said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.' [Phil.1:21]

To lie means to intentionally, knowingly say something false. Many people in the world honestly do not believe Jesus is the Messiah. Even if they're wrong, that doesn't make them liars.

What kind of unjust deity would punish people for the thought crime of honestly believing/not believing something?