Are you a liar?

Redemptionsong said:

That's the beauty of freewill. You get the chance to call John a liar, and the Bible a book of lies.

Jesus was very clear when he stated, 'He that is not with me is against me'.

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I can be for God and not some people who wrote a book, though. We must take pains not to turn the Bible into an idol.

Psalm23 said:

Reading this I also thought of how the Bible teaches all are liars( see Psalms 116:11 ). What do you think John means in 1 John 2:22 by calling them liars?

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If all are liars then so are the authors.

Redemptionsong said:

When a person has faith in one God, they have an authority above. This makes justice, and mercy, meaningful.

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God say around for 400 years while His people were enslaved. What meaning did they experience? I can accept maybe God doesn’t experience time in our scale but that doesn’t help people suffering in between His logins.

InChrist said:

This is a fallen world; meaning it is in a sin impacted condition. It is a deteriorated, degraded and dangerous state from the original beautiful, good, and safe state God made it to be. Evil, violence and abuse are rampant because for the most part humanity is in rebellion to their Creator and His wisdom for living peacefully with one another. Sadly, no one is immune to the harmful effects in this sin damaged world, but God offers a way and hope for a new life in a new heaven and new earth free of pain, abuse, violence, sorrow, and death.

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Maybe we need Gods who can do Their job?

InChrist said:

How so? If God specifically gives instructions to created beings against sinful behaviors, yet people chose to ignore God and harm others, why is it God’s fault and not the fault and responsibility of those committing the crimes and perpetuating the abuse?

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A manager who can’t manage should be fired.

Redemptionsong said:

You may be edging toward the lunatic fringe by claiming that Jesus never existed.

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Then it won’t be difficult for you to offer factual and objective evidence. Let’s see what you offer the group.

The NT is a compilation of numerous records that witness to Jesus' presence in lsrael. Furthermore we have non-Christians, such as the historians Tacitus and Seutonius, who add support to the belief he existed. We also have hundreds of thousands of Christians claiming to have received Holy Spirit baptism, promised by Jesus before his crucifixion. Where is this baptism coming from, if not from Jesus Christ?

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The New Testament is not credible as evidence. First there are no original materials. Second much of the content is non-factual and suspicious as being embellishment. Third the historians cited as evidence of Jesus existing are not writing with first hand sources but only repeating common lore.

Once we get over this little hurdle, we can begin a more rational discussion about the internal evidence of the scriptures.

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You only created more hurdles. You still haven’t demonstrated that Jesus exists, and now you need to demonstrate the scriptures are true. No one in history has ever done this. Can you?

As l have argued many times before, the NT is a natural continuation of the OT scriptures. The story centres on lsrael, both as a people and a land. To deny the existence of either also demonstrates a suspension of reason.

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If by “natural continuation” you mean religious people did what religious people do and add elements to an evolving cultural tradition, then yes.

Does this mean your religious beliefs are true? No.

F1fan said:

False. If this was true they wouldn't have been tempted.

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And God wasn’t trustworthy because He lied about what the fruit did.

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

I can be for God and not some people who wrote a book, though. We must take pains not to turn the Bible into an idol.

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If the prophets speak God's words then to deny the Bible is to deny God! A prophet is claiming to be no more than a mouthpiece for God.

InChrist said:

There is nothing said about the fruit being an “apple”. I think it’s better not to superimpose your own perceptions onto the scriptures, whether it be with regard to the fruit or the rest of your narrative claiming God manipulates or considers His creations mere playthings

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I agree. It’s like when people say that the serpent was Lucifer but he’s not in the story.

Redemptionsong said:

I, too, am a Gentile, like yourself. Nevertheless, I accept that God chose Abraham and his descendants (through Jacob / Israel) as his people. It was to this people that God's Law was revealed, and through whom the Messiah would come.

Is Krishna the Messiah promised through the Davidic line? Clearly not.

Another way of discerning the true Messiah is in the message and teaching of Christ. Does Krishna claim to be able to save from sin and death? Does Krishna baptise in the Holy Spirit?

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Krishna makes a better Jesus than Jesus. Jesus said you can move mountains with faith. He never does but Krishna used a mountain as an umbrella before he hit puberty. Kansa’s attempts to kill Krishna makes Herod look like an amateur. Baby Krishna could kill demons. He could bilocate. He had magic weapons. He was Vishnu incarnate. Yahweh could barely incarnate once and Vishnu’s up for His 10th. If you want a better divine character, Krishna is superior to Jesus.

Redemptionsong said:

What makes you think this video is manipulated?

The interesting part is not the fact of the conversion, but the manner in which God reached the individual.

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A random anonymous individual wearing safron robes with face greyed out, speaking an Indian language with video translations and smart cuts and editing... you really want me to believe that this is not being done by a few people who have been paid money to act that way? And dialogues were just so made up and artificial that it was just too funny.
Why do you believe such nonsensical videos?

F1fan said:

Like what happened to David Koresh?

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What do you mean?

Fallen Prophet said:

What do you mean?

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Well, David Koresh's Christian community didn't exactly thrive despite God being on their side.

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

God say around for 400 years while His people were enslaved. What meaning did they experience? I can accept maybe God doesn’t experience time in our scale but that doesn’t help people suffering in between His logins.

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I think l'm correct in saying that the children of lsrael were not slaves for the entire period of their sojourning in Egypt. They were growing in numbers and prosperity before a particular pharaoh decided to enslave them.

sayak83 said:

A random anonymous individual wearing safron robes with face greyed out, speaking an Indian language with video translations and smart cuts and editing... you really want me to believe that this is not being done by a few people who have been paid money to act that way? And dialogues were just so made up and artificial that it was just too funny.
Why do you believe such nonsensical videos?

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It's clear from the behaviour of the people that this was not a staged event. In fact, with a bit of research it shouldn't be hard to locate where it was filmed, or the identity of the robed man.

To suggest that people go to such lengths to deceive others is hardly a Godly thing to do. Why would a person undermine the very faith they hope to proclaim? Your argument makes no sense.

Redemptionsong said:

It's clear from the behaviour of the people that this was not a staged event. In fact, with a bit of research it shouldn't be hard to locate where it was filmed, or the identity of the robed man.

To suggest that people go to such lengths to deceive others is hardly a Godly thing to do. Why would a person undermine the very faith they hope to proclaim? Your argument makes no sense.

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I am not going to do the research. You linked the video and you will have to show the video to be
a) authentic
b) the person in question was indeed some Maharishi as claimed (highly unlikely given how he was speaking)
c) He did indeed became a Christian after that event

One of the primary goals of evangelical missions working in the developing world is to get funding for their missions. To attract funding from the faithful they need to make videos to show that a) they are indeed converting people and b) doing so in ways that demonstrate God is with them through miracles, visions etc. So they go to great lengths to develop and sustain narratives of this format to show to the faithful in the West. They are essentially ad propaganda and nothing else. (Also happens in other religions as well including more right wing Hindu movements). Further for every video you provide like this, I can provide a counter video for the other way round ...as I did. Did you watch it?

So the question is what do you want to do here? Do you want to post videos showing miraculous conversions of Hindus to Christians and I post counter videos showing inspirational conversions of Christians to Hindus. Such videos demonstrate very little and are practically useless as they are hard to fact check.

F1fan said:

So you're not a liar, and you are.

That clears it up.


Well I suspect the word "man" means human. Of course you are probably using a King James version of the bible and the Middle English it is written is can be confusing to those who learned modern English.


This illustrates why religion is irrelevant and absurd to critical thinkers.

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My preferred Bible translation is the Young's Literal Translation and that's what I used previously to show Scripture in Jude. Also use King James version. As close as possible to the original Hebrew and Greek Scriptures is the best.

Religion is not Irrelevant and Absurd to those with Power who Dominate the World.

Jude 1:4 from the mouth and illustration of those men:

Aleister Crowley:
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Fury Ending Credits

Redemptionsong said:

Yes, l do. I believe John was calling on sinners to repent, and prepare themselves for the coming of the Lord (in Spirit).

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Do you believe that we must be Born of Water? Is being Born of Water the First Covenant/Old Covenant?

sayak83 said:

I am not going to do the research. You linked the video and you will have to show the video to be
a) authentic
b) the person in question was indeed some Maharishi as claimed (highly unlikely given how he was speaking)
c) He did indeed became a Christian after that event

One of the primary goals of evangelical missions working in the developing world is to get funding for their missions. To attract funding from the faithful they need to make videos to show that a) they are indeed converting people and b) doing so in ways that demonstrate God is with them through miracles, visions etc. So they go to great lengths to develop and sustain narratives of this format to show to the faithful in the West. They are essentially ad propaganda and nothing else. (Also happens in other religions as well including more right wing Hindu movements). Further for every video you provide like this, I can provide a counter video for the other way round ...as I did. Did you watch it?

So the question is what do you want to do here? Do you want to post videos showing miraculous conversions of Hindus to Christians and I post counter videos showing inspirational conversions of Christians to Hindus. Such videos demonstrate very little and are practically useless as they are hard to fact check.

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The Biblical story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal is interesting because it's the story of a prophet who wishes to demonstrate to lsrael that his god is the one true God. The prophets of Baal (pl. Baalim, a god identified by some as Molech) take up the challenge and meet with Elijah at Mt. Carmel. The story is told in 1 Kings 18.

The outcome of the challenge was that Elijah's God shows himself to be powerful and true, and the people recognise that they've been deceived by the prophets of Baal.These prophets are then put to death.

I believe that it's still possible to distinguish the true God from false gods by the power that God manifests through His intervention in this world, particularly in the realm of deliverance and healing.

How can you tell that your gods are true?

Redemptionsong said:

The Biblical story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal is interesting because it's the story of a prophet who wishes to demonstrate to lsrael that his god is the one true God. The prophets of Baal (pl. Baalim, a god identified by some as Molech) take up the challenge and meet with Elijah at Mt. Carmel. The story is told in 1 Kings18.

The outcome of the challenge was that Elijah's God shows himself to be powerful and true, and the people recognise that they' ve been deceived by the prophets of Baal.These

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The story is also predictable as the main task of those who wrote the (different parts) of the Bible is to propagate Judaism/Christianity, so it is expected that they will show their prophets or God as emerging victorious over the prophets and God(s) of other religions.
Perhaps you should instead believe the stories from our scriptures instead which clearly establishes the Hindu God/Brahman as the supreme and correct over all others?
One good example of such a scripture is when Buddha confronts the Baka Brahma (literally: false Creator God) who has been deluded by Mara (lord of deceitful illusions: a Satan like figure who attends the court of this creator God) into believing that He is the supreme being, the creator of everything.

This is how Mara addressed this Baka Brahma

"For this Brahma, monk, is the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be."
He is a Creator being who rewards those who praise him and his divine attendants and give them a refined body (spiritual body) in his heaven after death. While those who deny him and his divine attendants are banished and given a coarser body in one of his lower realms. This God also believed that His realm is eternal and the final destination.

Perhaps the deity being referred to is the Abrahamic God?

Buddha disabuses this God of the above notion and shows himself to be much greater in power, knowledge and wisdom. He shows many greater and wiser Gods who are beyond his realm and the final state of unbounded consciousness that lies above even those.

"'Consciousness without surface, endless, radiant all around,
has not been experienced through the earthness of earth ... the liquidity of liquid ... the fieriness of fire ... the windiness of wind ... the allness of the all."

It is this which Buddha was and hence he was greater than the Creator God.
Brahma-nimantanika Sutta: The Brahma Invitation

So why not believe this?