Maybe NATO should back down?

Aupmanyav · Mar 10, 2022

Putin says that he is ready to strike a deal with Zelenskyy and may not want his ouster.

oldbadger said:
If he can be captured then he'll be tried for war-crimes......no doubt.

It is as big an if as the existence of God.

Estro Felino said:
Who? Soros. I will.

I do not know Soros story and I am not interested in it. I do not think it is that important. I was talking about Putin.

oldbadger said:
He sent assassin's to murder folks in Salisbury, UK.

Oldbadger, many countries do that. I am sure USA also has done that or you think they are as white as milk?.

Revoltingest · Mar 10, 2022

Estro Felino said:
I will not discredit the NATO as organization.
I defend it as organization.
I just think it is instrumentalized by certain elites who sell a certain narrative.

The Jews again, eg, Goldman Sachs, Soros, Zelensky, eh.
For a small religious group, they sure do wield great power
over many nations.

I just heard today a conspiracy theory from a friend...
Soros pays USA prosecutors to go easy on criminal
defendants so that we'll have more criminals here.
Once again, the Jews are behind the evil.

Caution to mods: A wee bit'o sarcasm here.

Estro Felino · Mar 10, 2022

Revoltingest said:
The Jews again, eg, Goldman Sachs, Soros, Zelensky, eh.
For a small religious group, they sure do wield great power
over many nations.

I just heard today a conspiracy theory from a friend...
Soros pays USA prosecutors to go easy on criminal
defendants so that we'll have more criminals here.
Once again, the Jews are behind the evil.

Caution to mods: A wee bit'o sarcasm here.

Limitless economic power makes political power insignificant.

Revoltingest · Mar 10, 2022

Stevicus said:
We know that Putin is invading another country. The question is why. He's stated his reasons. The West doesn't seem to believe him, so they don't trust his public face either.

I've also noticed many others don't even care about the reasons, since the only salient fact in their eyes is that Putin is invading Ukraine, which is the beginning and the end of it, from that standpoint. Nothing else seems pertinent in the case against Putin.

However, the overall discussion is not just about Putin's invasion of Ukraine just by itself, but also projections about what Putin might do next. There are fears that he could attack NATO countries, or that he might even launch a global thermonuclear war.

On the other hand, maybe he just wants Ukraine and only Ukraine. If that's the case, then NATO countries would be safe from invasion.

It's useful to understand our enemies (& allies).
I think his real motives are clear....
Gain useful territory & resources.
Expand the Russian empire.
Entrench Russian culture & religion.

Estro Felino · Mar 10, 2022

Revoltingest said:
It's useful to understand our enemies (& allies).
I think his real motives are clear....
Gain useful territory & resources.
Expand the Russian empire.
Entrench Russian culture & religion.

4) Defend European Civilization from wildglobalism.

Revoltingest · Mar 10, 2022

Estro Felino said:
Limitless economic power makes political power insignificant.

Like this guy....
If Vladimir Putin Really Is Worth $200 Billion, He Just Became The Richest Person In The World… Thanks To His Own Chaos
Does this mean that Putin is part of the Jewish conspiracy with Soros & Goldman Sachs?

Revoltingest · Mar 10, 2022

Estro Felino said:
4) Defend European Civilization from wildglobalism.

I see no indications that he's defending Europe
against that....unless you claim he'll give the
Ukraine treatment to NATO countries &
Scandinavia too.

Estro Felino · Mar 10, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I see no indications that he's defending Europe
against that....unless you claim he'll give the
Ukraine treatment to NATO countries &
Scandinavia too.

If Sweden and Finland want to join the NATO, I guess NATO will welcone them with open arms.

I have heard the very long speech where Putin explains why he decide to put this military operation into action.
It lasts one hour.

oldbadger · Mar 10, 2022

Aupmanyav said:
Putin says that he is ready to strike a deal with Zelenskyy and may not want his ouster.
It is as big an if as the existence of God.I do not know Soros story and I am not interested in it. I do not think it is that important. I was talking about Putin.Oldbadger, many countries do that. I am sure USA also has done that or you think they are as white as milk?.

I live in UK, not USA .

oldbadger · Mar 10, 2022

Estro Felino said:
If Sweden and Finland want to join the NATO, I guess NATO will welcone them with open arms.
.

Do you believe in free will, or is that just your talk?

Stevicus · Mar 10, 2022

Revoltingest said:
It's useful to understand our enemies (& allies).

"Know your enemy" is a useful concept.

I think his real motives are clear....
Gain useful territory & resources.
Expand the Russian empire.
Entrench Russian culture & religion.

I remember when I was studying Russian history, there was a significant portion devoted to the Mongol Empire and their incursions into Russia and the rest of Europe. One of my professors likened the Mongols to the Mob. Similar to the Mob, the Mongols weren't really interested in micromanaging their empire or taking on administrative tasks. All they really wanted was "tribute" (of course) and respect. Once that requirement was satisfied, they were pretty laissez-faire about things.

Revoltingest · Mar 10, 2022

I wonder how much nostalgia inspires Russians
to wage war against Ukraine? Soviet flags have
appeared on invading vehicles.

Aupmanyav · Mar 10, 2022

oldbadger said:
I live in UK, not USA.

It does not matter. UK too has its M16. Though they need less of it, but if need be, they won't be averse to it. Much of what they want is probably already done by USA, because their interests are the same.

oldbadger · Mar 11, 2022

Aupmanyav said:
It does not matter. UK too has its M16. Though they need less of it, but if need be, they won't be averse to it. Much of what they want is probably already done by USA, because their interests are the same.

Oh please! All countries have 'home and away' intelligence networks.
I know that our countries have done bad things before, just like yours I expect.
Please stop telling me what a load of ****s we all are which is why it's ok to kill Ukrainians and smash up their country!

This mindset seems to be absolutely cranked........ it's a bit like telling a German girl who has got raped that she deserves it 'cos of what Hitler did!

Martin · Mar 11, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I wonder how much nostalgia inspires Russians
to wage war against Ukraine? Soviet flags have
appeared on invading vehicles.

Macho dreams of lost empire. Too much vodka has rotted their brains.

Aupmanyav · Mar 11, 2022

oldbadger said:
I know that our countries have done bad things before, just like yours I expect.
Please stop telling me what a load of s***s we all are which is why it's ok to kill Ukrainians and smash up their country.

No. We don't do that. That Pakistanis indulges in state terrorism, it by itself gets them international blame. We just try to save ourselves as much as we can. There have been two attacks in Kashmir markets in this week in which innocent civilians have died and been injured. The Kashmiri people are waking up to the truth that terrorism is foolishness and there have been demonstrations against terrorists. What we want is automatically being accomplished. It is a policy decision by the Indian governments. We do not lower ourselves to Pakistani standards.

No, it is not OK to kill Ukranians or destroy Ukranian property. My problem is with its President, who should have avoided the war. He will make adjustments now. Why he could not do that before the the situation erupted?
And, of course, the less that is said about NATO, the better it is. NATO had no purpose after collapse of USSR, unless USA and West wanted to keep the enmity alive and frighten other countries into joining NATO.
Of course, people have different views.

Stevicus · Mar 11, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I wonder how much nostalgia inspires Russians
to wage war against Ukraine? Soviet flags have
appeared on invading vehicles.

I haven't come across any news stories about Soviet flags.

The Soviet Union pretty much hastened its own demise by the attempted coup back in 1991, which brought Gorbachev down and accelerated the collapse. That's when Yeltsin came in.

muhammad_isa · Mar 11, 2022

Aupmanyav said:
..NATO had no purpose after collapse of USSR, unless USA and West wanted to keep the enmity alive and frighten other countries into joining NATO.
Of course, people have different views.

You're telling me we have different views!

It is very clear now that NATO is important for the security of Europe.
..and for the informed, we have known for a long time that Putin is a security risk.
Just look at his behaviour in Syria .. what's he even doing there?

Estro Felino · Mar 11, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I wonder how much nostalgia inspires Russians
to wage war against Ukraine? Soviet flags have
appeared on invading vehicles.

This tragic and destructive individual said these things seven years ago.
So I guess that now I know who started it.

Estro Felino · Mar 11, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
Just look at his behaviour in Syria .. what's he even doing there?

Well. .the 44th POTUS sided with the rebels ...which is a nice name to say ISIS.
At least Putin sided with Assad.

Maybe NATO should back down?

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