PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Then all ways must lead to God, and we are left wondering why Christ needed to show us how to live and worship.
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Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Then all ways must lead to God, and we are left wondering why Christ needed to show us how to live and worship.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
There might be many ways to God yes. Christianity is just one way, one teaching out of many that could hold the truth.
A believer would benefit from only follow one teaching, but what that teaching is, should be up to each person to deside, not be told by people who dont believe or has a different belief them self.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Warning people of errors in one set of belief is a good thing unless it does not matter what you believe. If it does not matter then any belief is as good as any other and there is no truth and God does not care what we believe.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
But what is error?
Just because you or I believe differently does not mean one is automatically wrong.
Human beings are different in the way we understand life or spiritual teaching, so it is not strange different sets of teachings exists. All of them could be from God directly or indirectly
Brian2
Veteran Member
There are plenty of teachings about right and wrong and how to treat others etc which are similar in many religions. There are many teachings in each religion which contradict the teachings in other religions.
The Gospels for example say that Jesus is the Son of God and died to take the results of our sins onto Himself and in Islam Muhammad said that Jesus is not the Son of God and did not die on the cross for our sins.
Muhammad wants to straighten out errors that Christians believe and so teaches against what Christians believe. So Muhammad does what you think we should not do.
Also these teaching in Christianity are the centre of the Christian faith and very important if they are right or wrong.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Yes the Christian teaching is for Christians, Islam is for muslims and so on, all have a chance to gain wisdom in the way they understand.
This is only how I understand it, others will have a different answer
Brian2
Veteran Member
Are you saying that God teaches lies to some people and truth to others?
Are you saying that Jesus death on the cross does not matter or did not happen?
Of course you don't need to answer these questions.
There are differences and the differences are important.
Do you believe in Satan and that he wants to deceive people?
You don't have to answer that.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I already told you, the only reason I'm saying there is anything wrong with the Jehovah's witness faith is because it believes that every Christian Church on Earth, for over 1500 years, was preaching that it's okay to pray to demons, practice idolatry, worship idols, and every Christian Church on Earth was teaching that it's okay to do wicked practices.
If Jehovah's witnesses would stop condemning all those other Christian churches on Earth, and all of those people, I would respect Jehovah's witnesses faith.
I told you why I'm going after the Jehovah's witnesses. It's not because they think something differently.
Why do you keep saying that I have a problem with them for thinking something differently? I've said it many times. I respect people who think differently than me, as long as they don't judge and condemn or persecute other people. I only judge and condemn another religion, if it is to defend the people that they are judging and condemning.
I've already told you, any religion that is willing to respect other religions, and not condemn the people, and not oppress anybody, is a religion I will never say is wrong about anything.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Why would I say something like that?
The Christian teaching is for Christians, hindu teaching is for hinus, Jesus was there for the Christian people
Nimos
Well-Known Member
But do you see my point?
JWs clearly disagree with that and what exact excuse they will use I don't know, maybe that the Christians got it wrong or they corrupted it or maybe Satan mislead them or whatever. Its basically no different than a Bahai claiming that Baha'u'llah is the right one, the Muslims will claim that Muhammed and the Quran is etc. Im not taking sides here, because again, I don't think anyone have managed to even remotely establish their claims as being true. But I just don't think there is a valid point to be made against JWs in particular, that one couldn't make against all the other religions as well.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
what do you mean by I'm not interested in learning?
I'm actually extremely interested in learning, and I pray to the holy Spirit every day diligently for understanding. The holy Spirit has simply told me very clearly that the Jehovah's witnesses do not have the truth.
And I would respect that, and respect what the Jehovah's witnesses believe and preach, but when they start judging and condemning, and persecuting other denominations of christianity, and saying every Christian Church on the face of the Earth for over 1500 years was a false pagan religion that worshiped idols and prayed to demons, I find that very harsh, bigoted, mean, divisive, arrogant, and hypocritical.
I criticize Jehovah's witnesses faith, to defend the other Churches that witnesses condemn as false!
If Jehovah's witnesses had a religion that was not so judgmental harsh and condemning, I would respect it even if I disagreed with it.
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For me a Christian means a disciple of Jesus. And a disciple of Jesus is a person who is loyal to Jesus.
Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32
I think Jehova’s Witnesses are in some issues more loyal to Jesus than other so-called Christians. For example Trinity is not Biblical teaching, nor idea from Jesus.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of potential in you Spiderman. In fact when I read your OP it reminded me a lot of a classmate I had back in High School. He was different than a lot of my other schoolmates because he was zealous for God and the Bible. And he was really vehement on the fact that the Trinity was taught in the Bible and he was offended when he learned Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus is God, we believe what the Bible teaches, that Jesus is God's son (John 10:36). My twin brother and I shared with him a few scriptures from the Bible and when he read them he was incensed and said it was because we had a fake Bible and that he was going to bring his King James Version to school.
Do you know the scripture that opened his eyes? When he brought his King James Version to school the very next day and set it before us and told us to read to him what we read in the New World Translation John 14:28:
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
He had never seen that scripture before. But he stopped in his tracks and actually started listening to what we were teaching him. And before long he was a baptized Witness of Jehovah God. And he grew up in a very divided house and had a lot of problems at home. But we had some great conversations and became very good friends.
Paul when he was known as Saul was a fierce opposer of the truth and persecuted the Christians with a wicked zeal mistakenly thinking he was doing what was right. But he too changed. God saw he had the right heart, it was just focused on what wasn't true. Later on he admitted:
"To me, a man less than the least of all holy ones, this undeserved kindness was given, so that I should declare to the nations the good news about the unfathomable riches of the Christ."-Ephesians 3:8.
And because he was ignorant, even though zealous for God, though in a wrong way, he was able later to empathize with others who were in ignorance, not according to accurate knowledge, trying to serve God, though in a wrong way:
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.
Interestingly enough you made me remember an experience I had after that. At an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses some years later, while I was walking with my wife during intermission and talking with friends, I heard my name called, and turned to see who it was and a brother approached me and asked if i remembered who he was, he remember myself and my twin brother very well. And he introduced me to his wife. He said that he would sit at the table with David and I when we would discuss the Bible at lunch in school and he listened in on our conversations, and after graduating from High School he always remember what we had talked about and he found the Witnesses and started a Bible study and came into the truth.
In fact now that reminds me of an interview I heard a famous movie actor give once. I looked it up and found it, when you get the time take a listen:
Do you know the scripture that opened his eyes? When he brought his King James Version to school the very next day and set it before us and told us to read to him what we read in the New World Translation John 14:28:
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
He had never seen that scripture before. But he stopped in his tracks and actually started listening to what we were teaching him. And before long he was a baptized Witness of Jehovah God. And he grew up in a very divided house and had a lot of problems at home. But we had some great conversations and became very good friends.
Paul when he was known as Saul was a fierce opposer of the truth and persecuted the Christians with a wicked zeal mistakenly thinking he was doing what was right. But he too changed. God saw he had the right heart, it was just focused on what wasn't true. Later on he admitted:
"To me, a man less than the least of all holy ones, this undeserved kindness was given, so that I should declare to the nations the good news about the unfathomable riches of the Christ."-Ephesians 3:8.
And because he was ignorant, even though zealous for God, though in a wrong way, he was able later to empathize with others who were in ignorance, not according to accurate knowledge, trying to serve God, though in a wrong way:
"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.
Interestingly enough you made me remember an experience I had after that. At an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses some years later, while I was walking with my wife during intermission and talking with friends, I heard my name called, and turned to see who it was and a brother approached me and asked if i remembered who he was, he remember myself and my twin brother very well. And he introduced me to his wife. He said that he would sit at the table with David and I when we would discuss the Bible at lunch in school and he listened in on our conversations, and after graduating from High School he always remember what we had talked about and he found the Witnesses and started a Bible study and came into the truth.
In fact now that reminds me of an interview I heard a famous movie actor give once. I looked it up and found it, when you get the time take a listen:
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Jesus was a man incarnate with human weaknesses for a time. It doesn't mean he was not Divine. If all the early Christian Churches on earth had councils , and determined that Jesus was Divine, and defined the Trinity, I believe the Holy Spirit was present to guide those councils and decisions!
- “In the beginning was the Word.”The Greek text here employs the imperfect form of the verb to be, indicating a past, ongoing reality. So, according to the text, the Word already existed in the beginning, meaning he had no beginning. Thus, he is God. And by the way, John 1:14 makes clear who “the Word” is when it says, “And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.”
- The Word—Jesus—is also referred to as the creator. Notice, all things that were created were created through him. Genesis 1:1 says, “In the beginning God created . . .” Jesus is plainly said to be God, the Creator. This necessarily follows when we consider Isaiah 44:24 emphatically and unequivocally declares that it is God alone who is the creator:
- The text plainly says, “… and the Word was God.”
There are three main problems with this line of reasoning:
- The predicate nominative in Greek does not normally take the definite article. The definite article is used in these cases to distinguish the subject from the predicate; thus, the lack of the definite article would be grammatically expected in this verse in expressing “and the Word was God.”
- JWs translate the word theos (God) as Jehovah (or the God) numerous times when it doesn’t have the definite article when it refers to the Father (see Matthew 5:9, 6:24; Luke 1:35, 2:40; John 1:6, 12, 13, 18; just to name a few from their New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures).
- Jesus is referred to as theos with the definite article many times elsewhere in Scripture (see Titus 2:13; John 5:17-18, 8:57-59, 10:30-38. 20:28; Revelation 22:6).
St. Paul tells us:
[T]he Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:10-11).
Paul makes clear in Romans 11:34 that no created intellect can “know the mind of the Lord.” Why not? In order to comprehend the thoughts of God, which are infinite, one would have to possess infinite power. The fact that the Spirit of God is here revealed to comprehend “the thoughts of God” would mean necessarily that he is, in fact, God.
One must be careful not to interpret this text literally. Some might say this would eliminate the eternal Son from being understood to “comprehend the thoughts of God” because the text says “no one . . . except the Spirit of God” comprehends the thoughts of God.
That is not St. Paul’s point at all. With this sort of interpretive principle one would also have to say God would not know the thoughts of man because St. Paul said no “person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of man which is in him.” Well, God is three persons, so I guess the persons of the Trinity would not know the thoughts of man?
Of course God knows the thoughts of man—he knows everything. The point here is that no human person knows the thoughts of another human person. Analogously, no person apart from the Godhead can know the thoughts of God. Only God has the power to comprehend that which is infinite.
Here are only three of the several Scripture passages that support this point (see also Jeremiah 31-33-34, Hebrews 10:15-17):
1 Cor. 6:19: “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God?”
According to the Summa Theologiae (part I, q. 27, art. 1), Thomas Aquinas says it is the prerogative of God, and God alone, to have a temple; therefore, the Holy Spirit is revealed here to be God and our bodies are his temple.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I agree. They don't worship the real Jesus.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
That is actually true! I don't know if you meant to say it as a serious statement or not, but you speak the truth nonetheless!
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
How do you know?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm not answering him, and I know you were addressing him, but what I will say is, the Jesus that Jehovah's witnesses worship, is a different Jesus, because the Bible speaks very clearly of who Christ is and was.
The Jehovah's witness faith is built upon a Sola scriptura doctrine, that is a man-made unbiblical, invented teaching, that was not the belief of Christians, virtually no Christian Church on Earth embraced such a belief , for many centuries.
Also, Jesus said " Upon this Rock I will build my church, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it".
And Jesus said if people do not listen to the church, let them be unto you as a pagan or a tax collector.
Jehovah's witnesses believe the whole church fell into a great apostasy, and that Jesus had to reinvent a new religion.
That is the opposite of what Jesus Christ said would happen. He promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his church!
And that means that Jesus Christ was essentially a liar, if that is the case that witnesses are right.
Also, Jehovah's witnesses changed the bible, made their own Bible, and they deny that Jesus Christ meant what he said in John chapter 6 , and in virtually every last supper account.
Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus failed to guide and Shepherd the Christian churches that were on Earth for over 1500 years, so they create an extremely depressing story, they judge and condemn other Churches as false and Satanic, and the only reason I don't respect certain religions, is when they start condemning and persecuting other religions.
If Jehovah's witnesses would show some respect and stop saying all the other Christian churches were demonic for over 1500 years, I would respect Jehovah's witnesses and their religion.
I only disrespect their religion, in order to defend the religions that they demonize!
Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus Christ was Michael the archangel. That is a false Jesus Christ right there!
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Yo
You stomping on every JW in RF.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Im stomping only on the way jws at RF have told me that Catholics are Idolaters who pray to Demons!
I didn't start the stomping. I'm just defending Catholics, where Jws get their Bible from.
Jws need to respect other religions, and then I will respect theirs!