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Is lust always a sin?

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
I think it depends on how we define lust. If it is an urge to fulfill our own sensual desires at the expense of, or irrespective of the desires of someone else, then I think it is 'sinful' by definition. But if we define it as the urge to fulfill a mutual desire with another person then it's just lust; but not 'sin'. Because the desire for sensual fulfillment is normal and healthy in it's proper (i.e., mutual) context.
As I see it, context is important even in marriage. One party could let their lust overwhelm there love and that would be at great potential expense.

There seems to be a binding theme about how lust is perceived here. One that my own views appear to reflect.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Human animals inherit the urge to mate from our animal antecedents. There is nothing one way or the other about that natural urge.

How that urge is expressed (or not) with whom and when is the issue.

If someone is focused on expressing that desire with another and treats that person just as the means and sole focus, then karma is generated that will be worked out in a future life.

If that desire is expressed in a committed relationship where it's one factor in all the interactions between two people, it's a different matter. Ideally in this case, the emotional lives of the individuals dominate and the biological urge becomes secondary. From a karmic perspective, that to me is quite different.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.

Someone had written a story of an adulterous woman and entered it into the New Testament. The Pericope Adultarae. In that Jesus supposedly speaks to the group of people and makes them feel guilty. It could very well be that he was appealing to their lust which no one can deny. But this story is not authentic. I am just reiterating it.

But the issue is in Matthew Jesus supposedly says that if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. This is supposedly Jesus increasing the intensity of faith and purity of ones faith. This would mean, lusting after "another" is a sin.

I have not come across any scripture that says lusting after your spouse is a sin. I doubt its even considered lust as we refer to it. If you note the mentions of lust across the Bible, it is grouped with other things like orgies. Never as a thought in your mind with your own spouse. Unless I have completely missed something in scripture and I would like to be corrected if I have.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.
Sexual lust for one you are not married to is a sin, yes. It's not merely finding someone attractive but fixating on them sexually and feeding the desire. In marriage, it wouldn't be regarded as lust, but it is right and proper for a husband and wife to desire each other. All people are to be chaste in Christianity. For the unmarried, that entails celibacy. For the married, that entails only directing sexual desire towards the spouse in a mutually holy and loving way.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.


Sin is a religious concept so not relevant to non religious peeps.

And i think lust is a normal emotion, we all lust for someone or something at sometime during our lives.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I more mean, if lust leads to a rape, the rape is the sin not the lust. Lust is an emotion and we should be in control of those.

There are two ways of looking at this, in lust one has already committed the rape. One is not a rapist because he raped, he rapes because he is a rapist. Much as a thief is not a thief because he steals, he steals because he is a thief.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I've just realised reading this that lust means different thing to different people.

When i lust its 'wow, I'd like to get him in the sack'

Some peeps seem to think if you lust for someone you have already raped them in your mind.

No wonder the "men" who wrote the religious "do as i say, not as i do" rules considered lust to be wrong if they considered it rape.

And who says RF is not an education?
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
There are two ways of looking at this, in lust one has already committed the rape. One is not a rapist because he raped, he rapes because he is a rapist. Much as a thief is not a thief because he steals, he steals because he is a thief.
You're condemning people before they've even acted. In this way everyone would be guilty of almost everything, which is absurd and unfair.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.

I’m not sure whether this is off topic, but from a secular perspective, “sin” might be another word for moral or ethical failing; and lust is one of those things that can either be trouble or not depending on how a person reacts to it and how much temperance they take it with.

A person can be highly sexual (hi) without being inappropriate, addicted, pushy, invasive, inconsiderate of existing relationships, and all of the other bad things lust can lead to. So like many things, it just depends on what a person does with it.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.
One perspective comes from 1 John 2:16, which says lusts come from the world not from the Father.

Paul the apostle (Romans 7) says that lust comes from his body and does war against his spirit.

James says that if anyone thinks something is a sin, then for them it is a sin. (James 4:17)

St. Jerome of the catholics writes in his treatise Against Jovinian that all sex is sin, even in marriage. He has had a lot of sway among Christians, so it is worth finding out why he thinks this.

There is a website called the patriarchywebsite which has an argument against Jerome's argument. The site is no longer updated: DECEPTION EXPOSED - JEROME ON MARRIAGE AND SEX

************************

My thinking is that Jerome is extremist and seems to think that humans can be inhuman. To me he seems trapped in the idea that humans can become inhuman, as if we could stop masticating our food and extruding filth.

It is Jesus who says "Its not what goes into a person which makes them unclean but what comes out." Jerome says the opposite, because he says that the only good thing about married women (as opposed to sexually active unmarried women) is that they give birth to virgins! Jerome, being sexually experienced was nevertheless fascinated by virginity. He'd have us to believe that virgins were pure beings, but virgins are not pure beings. I know this.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?
...

I have understood lust means evil desire. It means person wants something that is not for him and not right. Like for example it is evil to desire neighbor’s wife. But it is not evil to desire persons own wife.

Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: sexual immorality, uncleanness, depraved passion, evil desire [=lust], and covetousness, which is idolatry;
Col. 3:5
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.


In the Catholic theological tradition, there is a recognition that concupiscence - strong sexual desire - is neither mortally nor venially sinful by itself and that 'carnal delectation' cannot be excessive or sinful within the right context (i.e. traditionally in church doctrine, marital relations being regarded as the 'unbounded arena' for the expression of sexuality, though modern secular social norms extend that to consensual relations in general).

The object of sexual desire (as well as how the person hones it) is what's important for Catholics and may render it a disposition beholden to sin, but not the fact of sexual arousal by itself. This is a perfectly natural urge. To suppress it would be to deny a fundamental part of one's human nature.

In fact, there's a positive obligation upon partners to pursue orgasm - and a traditional teaching is that it's a venial sin for a man not to remain sexually active until his wife reaches orgasm and if he fails to do so, he is obliged to help her do so by other means than coitus. (Likewise, many scholastic theologians also argued that it was a mortal sin for a woman to distract herself during sex so as to avoid orgasm.)

St. Alphonsus Liguori (1696–1787), in his Moral Theology:


"25.—Quaeritur: II. Whether spouses are permitted to take delectation in the conjugal act, even if the other spouse were not present?

It is a common opinion (as we will say in book 6, de matrimonio, n. 933), that unchaste touches (which certainly cannot be done without a great deal of arousal) among spouses are licit...even if they are done only for pleasure and hardly ordered to copulation.

I regard Busembaum’s opinion as probable, which says it is permitted for spouses to take delectation, even carnally, from carnal relations they have had or are going to have...The reason is, because (exactly as the Salamancans say in tr. 9, c. 15, p.6, n. 84 when speaking about unchaste touches) the very state of matrimony renders all these things licit; otherwise the matrimonial state would be exposed to excessive scruples

Besides, Bonacina, Sanchez, Lessius and Diana hold this opinion, with Busembaum (as above, n. 23, in fine), St. Antoninus (p. 1, tit. 5, c. 1§6.), Cajetan, (1.2. q. 74, art. 8 ad 4), Coninck (d. 34, dub. 11, concl. 1), Croix (l. 6, p. 5,num. 337) with Gerson, Suarez, Laymann and a great many others; likewise Vasquez, Aversa, etc., cited by the Salamancans (ibid. n. 89 and 90), who think it is probable. St.Thomas also favors this opinion in question 15 of de malo, art. 2, ad 17, where he says that for spouses, just as sexual relations are licit, so also delectation from them."

See also:


"The first American writer to prescribe orgasm was the Right Reverend Francis Patrick Kenrick, Roman Catholic bishop of Philadelphia. In the third volume of his Theologiae Moralis, published in 1843, Kenrick wrote that a married woman had the right to bring herself to orgasm “by touches” after intercourse, if she had experienced no climax during lovemaking. Kenrick also said that a husband who did not remain sexually active until his wife reached orgasm was guilty of a venial sin of omission and that it was a mortal sin for a wife to distract herself during sex to avoid having an orgasm."

(from 'Innocent Ecstasy: How Christianity Gave America an Ethic of Sexual Pleasure' by Peter Gardella, Professor of World Religions at Manhattanville College)

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This was also recognised by the early church father St. John Chrysostom in his Homily 12 on Colossians, preached during his time as bishop of Constantinople in the 390s:


CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 12 on Colossians (Chrysostom) (newadvent.org)


Marriage, then, was given for childbearing also, but even more so in order to quench nature’s burning...

How do they become one flesh? As if she were gold receiving the purest of gold, the woman receives the man’s seed with rich pleasure, and within her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her own substance and she then returns it as a child! […] But suppose there is no child; do they remain two and not one? No; their intercourse effects the joining of their bodies, and they are made one, just as when perfume is mixed with ointment.


with rich pleasure [τῆς ἡδονῆς χωνευούμενος]".
 
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Magical Wand

Active Member
In terms of sexuality, is lust always a sin? Can spouses lust after each other without a burden of sin?

Not sure where to place this, but since sin is a religious topic, I thought here was best. Please move it if it belongs in a more appropriate forum.

"When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" (NLT, Galatians 5:19–23)
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A human man's opinion is only an opinion.

If you ask another question why do you ask questions about sin.

Real motivation I am trying to make it align to a God earth connection for a machine string theory. God owns sin.

First with no humans or any form the sink holes sin by K constant via consuming sinful. Full of sin the sun.

So does God the earth machine strings lust brother?

No says the scientist.

Correct theory ask the earth your machine what it machine expressed as you push its buttons.

Real answer did man invent robot by his lust for sex?

Yes he did. Machine sex the answer not a machine reactor.

Just consciousness all the same one man human using masses of thoughts owning all man's humans self answers first.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
You're condemning people before they've even acted. In this way everyone would be guilty of almost everything, which is absurd and unfair.

Christian morality is not simply about what we do; it is about who we are, who we have become.
 
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