Did God really write a book?

Redemptionsong said:

If you don't consider the contents of the Bible to be profound then you haven't given scripture the time it deserves.

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What books from other religions do you think contain profound statements?

Justanatheist said:

What books from other religions do you think contain profound statements?

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It's not just about profound statements. The scriptures contain the early history of the lsraelite people and the promise of a future Messiah. The history of Israel has a geographical setting amongst numerous other nations, all of whom have their own history. How do you explain the interconnection between the lsraelites and the Hittites, Canaanites, Amorites, lshmaelites, Egyptians, Assyrians and Babylonians (to mention but a few)?

If you, or any other sceptic, wishes to explain the Bible away as the work of men, then you must provide answers as to why, and how, the Bible deception was conceived and maintained.

Redemptionsong said:

It's not just about profound statements. The scriptures contain the early history of the lsraelite people and the promise of a future Messiah. The history of Israel has a geographical setting amongst numerous other nations, all of whom have their own history. How do you explain the interconnection between the lsraelites and the Hittites, Canaanites, Amorites, lshmaelites, Egyptians, Assyrians and Babylonians (to mention but a few)?

If you, or any other sceptic, wishes to explain the Bible away as the work of men, then they must provide answers as to why, and how, the Bible deception was conceived and maintained.

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Sorry, what has your answer got to do with my answer, the question was very simple, try it again,

What books from other religions do you think contain profound statements?

If you have not read any or do not think any have profound content that's fine, just say so.

Justanatheist said:

Sorry, what has your answer got to do with my answer, the question was very simple, try it again,

What books from other religions do you think contain profound statements?

If you have not read any or do not think any have profound content that's fine, just say so.

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There are thousands of books that provide moral and religious guidance, but this does not make them 'God breathed' scripture.

There is, IMO, one God, one Messiah, and one way of salvation. If wisdom from other religious writings supports the message of the Bible then all good and well.

The key is the person of Jesus Christ. IMO, he was perfect in word and deed. He fulfilled the law in love, and sends the Holy Spirit to those who repent and believe.

Redemptionsong said:

The key is the person of Jesus Christ. IMO, he was perfect in word and deed.

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Cursing fig trees out of season dosent come across as being perfect in word and deed.

Twilight Hue said:

That Book has nothing remotely to do with Christ.


Yeshayahu (Isaiah): Full Text


Plus it's self fulfilling simply by customizing the mythology and storytelling and passed off as being 'fulfilled' soley by virtue of authorship.

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Lol, how does that work? We know when the books were written. The author could not know what would happen in the future, unless it was somehow revealed to him.

Twilight Hue said:

Cursing fig trees out of season dosent come across as being perfect in word and deed.

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The fig tree is a symbol of the blessing of God because it offers shade and fruit [See Micah 4:4; Zechariah 3:8-10.], and in cursing the fig tree Jesus Christ was delivering a message on the failure of the Jewish nation to be fruitful. Was his action justified? Well, given what happened to Jerusalem, the Temple and the Jewish people within forty years of the curse suggests that he was delivering a prophecy in a most 'visual' and dramatic manner.

'He came unto his own, and his own received him not.' [John 1:11]

Moonjuice said:

One of the things that I often think about when contemplating the worlds major religions is the idea that the message god wants to deliver to the entire world is often given to a single person, alone...

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Not only this, but it is suggested (by many) that some people are given an advantage over others: God's "Favor" in the form of special wisdom. I sense an unfairness in that. Its not only that 1 person but lots of people have unfair favor from God, and this seems incompatible with a God who is fair to all and even handed. It seems like God is a troublemaker if this be the case. Someone is.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

Altfish said:

Welcome to the Pleasuredome

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Oh my!

Moonjuice said:

Is there a single verse in that book that proves it had to be written by a God, because it could only have come from a God? If so, the evidence will force me to at least accept that a God does exist.

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God is invisible. You can't be blamed for that.

It would not be good to force you to accept that a God exists. It would be pointless. The only path forward is if you see people who believe in God living in a way that attracts you and then choose to believe in God as a result. This does happen.

By the way proofs would make God visible, but if God were visible we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact is God remains invisible, and I have never seen any proof of God's existence. I've lived over forty years and looked for proof. I don't think that we are supposed to find any.

George-ananda said:

Did God really write a book?

I think you can say God/Allah wrote the Quran.

I even think God co-wrote modern books : Conversations with God

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The book 'Conversations with God' is NOT from God. The book go against reason, order, truth, justice, love, holiness
I believe that the book/books 'Conversations with God' is from a lower evil spirit. I believe that book go against God's love and justice. It go against commen sense. Remember God created us humans with reason and commen sense because God want us to use it.

Moonjuice said:

One of the things that I often think about when contemplating the worlds major religions is the idea that the message god wants to deliver to the entire world is often given to a single person, alone (Moses, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, etc.). It is up to that single person to deliver gods message to the world. We aren't even arguing about the content of the books, many of us are trying to understand if a god exists at all. Once that is settled, then perhaps we will be in a better position to examine which book is actually the book god wants us to follow. It should be easy, if only one of the religious text is actually from god.

I'm convinced that god didn't tell these people to write anything. I believe human authors of all religious books wrote it themselves and no gods had anything to do with it. This is true for every religious text. If you believe your religion has a doctrine or book that was actually written by or "breathed" by a God, I have a question for you:

Is there a single verse in that book that proves it had to be written by a God, because it could only have come from a God? If so, the evidence will force me to at least accept that a God does exist.

I'll give you an example of the kind of thing that the entire world would probably find convincing: A verse in the bible that includes anything factual about the natural world, that could not be known by a human at that time, and is too detailed to be a guess. It could have only come from an actual creator of the entire universe.

Could be something like "I have created vast pools of crude oil under the ground. One day, you humans will figure out how to extract it and refine that oil into fuel in order to operate machines you will build to travel. Those machines will allow you to move from one country to the next, across oceans, and even to travel through the air at hundreds of miles per hour." Or maybe it's something less obvious, but still completely convincing?

Does this exist in any text that is supposedly gods word?

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If one is willing to take the time, there are many such things in biblical scripture -but more about then-future human activity than nature.
(That's actually much more difficult than revealing oil deposits -though some things therein yet future have to do with the burning up of the present works on Earth -and extreme changes to the Earth's topography, etc., which will allow access to more and better natural resources. We'll have to wait to see that happen.[Isaiah 60:17For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron:.....2 Pet 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ])

The book of Daniel contains a perfectly accurate overview of world events from then to now -and into the future, for example.
The prophecies about the kings of the north and south are the pre-recorded history of the European and Muslim powers.

Though for most it will serve -in hindsight -as proof that God declared the end from the beginning, it is there if any are interested now.

The present situation in Israel was also pre-recorded.

Israel will soon be attacked full-scale by its neighbors -and the conflict will draw in the rest of the world powers -Russia, China, Europe, etc.

Zech 12:2Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. 3And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. 4In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. 5And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. 7The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. 8In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Russia, China and others............
2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
.......................8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. 9Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

Europe and the Muslim powers....
40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

infrabenji said:

I believe it was Thomas Paine who said amongst many the many negative things about the christian bible that the worst possible way for god to communicate with us is through text. I feel that.

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God (as described in the bible, if you will) is very aware of the limitations of text and human languages.
He often uses them to hide things until they are to be revealed.

Apart from the obvious example of the confusion of speech at Babel ("lest anything they imagine be possible" -or so we did not destroy ourselves much sooner, as what we imagine is often pretty messed up), he also had the scriptures written in such a way as to require in-depth study to understand...

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, “This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest,” And, “This is the refreshing”; Yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught."

He also plans to give us a pure language based on his complete perspective -as opposed to ours which change with or present level of understanding.

Zeph3:8Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

Meandflower said:

The book 'Conversations with God' is NOT from God. The book go against reason, order, truth, justice, love, holiness
I believe that the book/books 'Conversations with God' is from a lower evil spirit. I believe that book go against God's love and justice. It go against commen sense. Remember God created us humans with reason and commen sense because God want us to use it.

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'Conversations with God' accords well with my sense of common sense. You do not need to accept it of course.

Etritonakin said:

God (as described in the bible, if you will) is very aware of the limitations of text and human languages.
He often uses them to hide things until they are to be revealed.

Apart from the obvious example of the confusion of speech at Babel ("lest anything they imagine be possible" -or so we did not destroy ourselves much sooner, as what we imagine is often pretty messed up), he also had the scriptures written in such a way as to require in-depth study to understand...

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, “This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest,” And, “This is the refreshing”; Yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught."

He also plans to give us a pure language based on his complete perspective -as opposed to ours which change with or present level of understanding.

Zeph3:8Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

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Ummm... I don't take bible verses to support what the bible says as evidence. Same way I don't use Harry Potter books to prove wizards exist. Sorry. That was eloquently put though. I appreciate it.

infrabenji said:

Ummm... I don't take bible verses to support what the bible says as evidence. Same way I don't use Harry Potter books to prove wizards exist. Sorry. That was eloquently put though. I appreciate it.

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Just thought you might find it interesting.
Rather than a God desperately trying to be heard and neglecting to just show up and prove himself, it describes a God purposefully hiding himself and various information for the most part until we have an experience base from which to accept him -after which he will prove himself in no uncertain terms.
If we saw a prefabricated city coming down out of the sky -a huge shining being standing on the cloven mount of olives, animals no longer eating each other, etc., we might accept that God exists, but if we are not changed and ready to stop all the nonsense.... there really is no point.

In modern science fiction, some changes in the sky are enough to unite mankind. At least the Bible is more realistic about what it would take (complete self-destruction cut short -initial enforcement of peace -removal and purification of evildoers, immortality to allow for permanent change, perfect government, etc.).

Etritonakin said:

Just thought you might find it interesting.
Rather than a God desperately trying to be heard and neglecting to just show up and prove himself, it describes a God purposefully hiding himself and various information for the most part until we have an experience base from which to accept him -after which he will prove himself in no uncertain terms.
If we saw a prefabricated city coming down out of the sky -a huge shining being standing on the cloven mount of olives, animals no longer eating each other, etc., we might accept that God exists, but if we are not changed and ready to stop all the nonsense.... there really is no point.

In modern science fiction, some changes in the sky are enough to unite mankind. At least the Bible is more realistic about what it would take (near complete self-destruction cut short -initial enforcement of peace -removal and purification of evildoers, immortality to allow for permanent change, perfect government, etc.).

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Word fo shizzle

Redemptionsong said:

The fig tree is a symbol of the blessing of God because it offers shade and fruit [See Micah 4:4; Zechariah 3:8-10.], and in cursing the fig tree Jesus Christ was delivering a message on the failure of the Jewish nation to be fruitful. Was his action justified? Well, given what happened to Jerusalem, the Temple and the Jewish people within forty years of the curse suggests that he was delivering a prophecy in a most 'visual' and dramatic manner.

'He came unto his own, and his own received him not.' [John 1:11]

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Well, just don't expect Jesus to win any gardening awards.

Moonjuice said:

I remain unconvinced. There are plenty of people capable of uttering a simple moral precept like this, including you and me. When I read this, all I see is the moral concept that we should "treat people the way we want to be treated", just reworded...

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That you see it the same as "treat people the way we want to be treated" proves me that you wouldn’t have developed it. And I don’t think I would have developed it on my own. But, more than that, I don’t think people would truly live according to it, without God.