Why the need to prove or disprove God?

Vinayaka said:

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

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No.

This world is passing away.

It's this:

So that you know that when you die
He's gonna set you up
with the spirit in the sky

Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)
That's where I'm gonna go when I die (when I die)
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best


Peaceful Sabbath.

Marcion said:

Objective thinking is to me rational thinking, so no superstitions, religious dogma's or other irrational ways of thinking.

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But what is rational thinking and who defines it? I agree that superstitions and religious dogmas that have superstitious beliefs embedded in them are irrational, but the Baha'i Faith has no such dogmas.

Marcion said:

Because in most of the Abrahamic religions I have observed the belief in "divine revelations" that are not analysed in a rational way. Whole scripture collections are declared to be "revealed by God". That is to me a superstitious way of thinking. You don't doubt the "words of God", which cuts off the route to a rational approach to ideas and messages.

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How else could God reveal anything to humans if not via Messengers who reveal scriptures? The Bible is not actually the 'Word of God' because it was written by men who were allegedly divinely inspired. The Writings of Baha'u'llah is by contrast wholly authentic because they were written by Baha'u'llah in His own pen. I do not know how much of the Bible is true because the Bible has many transcription and translation issues but I believe that whatever Baha'u'llah wrote is true because I believe that God communicated to Him. I can take a rational approach to ideas and messages revealed in the Baha'i Writings.

Marcion said:

There may the odd exceptions, but those people are no longer seen by myself as belonging to that religious paradigm which I call Abrahamic. E.g. Sufi's or some Christians (perhaps UU people or Christian mystics).

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Why are they the odd exceptions? What is more rational about their way of thinking? Why is it more objective?

Vinayaka said:

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

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I really do think that I should go door-knocking for Deism. It's even got a ring to it....
Door Knocking for Deism!

I can cope with the soaking bloke with a towel, screaming at me for interrupting his shower.
I can cope with the snob sticking her nose up, with a dismissive, 'I don't speak to low-lifes!'.
I don't mind door slammers!
The problem would come if anybody should be so daft as to invite me in for tea.
Because at some point they might actually ask me to tell them about Deism.
There isn't anything to tell! What could I tell 'em?

'Err.... yeah.... well, all the world and everythin' is God, and yer nature is the resident guv'nor....... can I have another iced bun please?'

So if you've got tea and an iced bun for me, do invite me in and talk about yer gardens, but for gawd-sake don't ask me about Deism, because there isn't that much to tell yer.

Vinayaka said:

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief.

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Wouldn't there be an advantage in living according to what is true (eg. gravity) rather than what is not true?

alypius said:

Wouldn't there be an advantage in living according to what is true (eg. gravity) rather than what is not true?

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If it's true, sure, but that's one huge 'if' when it comes to religion.