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The Dietary Laws

Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Valjean said:
Why do Christians not keep these dietary laws? Didn't Jesus say he wasn't changing the law, by even a jot or tittle?
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Hi Valjean. Good morning. I think someone already answered your question and they did so well, but yes, Matthew 5:17-20 shows that at the forefront of Yahshua's ministry, he clearly stated he hadn't come to weaken, lessen, or abolish the law of Yahweh but rather to fulfil, or, do it. Unfortunately, Chr-stianity has strayed considerably to what the Messiah taught, and that his disciples and apostles believed.
 
Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Marcion said:
Me thinks it is wiser to take a more rational approach and avoid all food and drink that makes the mind or body static or too speedy and prefer sentient food and drink such as fruits, veggies, grains, dairy, nuts, pulses, beans and seeds (except onion-family, mushrooms, blue cheeses, red lentils, nutmeg and durian fruit which have static effect) that keep the mind and body pure and healthy.

It is ok to follow religious dietary laws as long as all the food and drink you take are from the sentient category as well. If you wish to lead a truely spiritual life.
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Hi Marcion. Romans 14:2 says

"One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables."

Yahweh has sanctified the eating of clean meats as pertaining to his dietary laws and if we want to be strong physically we should adhere to his laws. I know there's a big drive in this country where I live (England) for vegetarianism and veganism, but aren't these things going to make us physically weaker than those around us. I've always been taught that as a true worshipper we should try to aim for physically strong bodies, therefore I have no problem eating meat, so long as it clean meat.
 
Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
[Citation needed]

Edit: I thought that many non-ruminant animals were kosher as well, e.g. chicken... no?
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9-10ths_Penguin. Good morning..Batya responded to this message in message 11. I don't really feel the need to add to it. Batya did a pretty good job explaining that.

In terms of a citation, I can't give you one. I've been looking for an article on the world wide web for a few minutes but all the descriptions of ruminants in scientific articles compare themselves to themselves, rather than to non-ruminants, so I apologise for that. It makes sense though, what I have said and believe. I'll keep looking anyway.
 
Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Marcion said:
It is not Yahweh who "sanctified the eating of clean meats as pertaining to his dietary laws" but someone who wrote that text you quoted.
This is not scripture to me but just someone who participated in writing that pseudo-letter.

A wise man takes care to keep his mind clean by not polluting their blood with drugs, stale foods or other static types of food and drink.
So no alcohol, other drugs or static or mutative substances in your mouth if you want to be a spiritual aspirant.
Your own mind, associated with your own brain and its physical base is the only temple to Yahweh that you have.
Treat it with respect and don't use false texts to create the faulty idea that anything goes in spirituality.

There is also a tantric path in which you use drugs, alcohol, sex, meat, etc., but that is a very dangerous path that can only be followed under strict guidance from such a radical type of teacher.
It should not be recommended to just anyone.
The only type of animal meat that has no static effect on the mind is that of a deer.
But killing an animal if you are not in immediate danger of starvation is a cruel act.
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Hi Marcion. Good morning. I think when you deviate from the Bible, as you have, you start to go astray from the clarity of Yahweh's Law. You said it is not Yahweh who sanctified the eating of clean meats, but it is. You can read His Law in Leviticus 11. And down through the ages, the true worshippers have eaten clean meats. Even the angels that visited Abraham ate meat in Genesis 18. You said "don't use false texts to create the faulty idea that anything goes in spirituality". Um. Not sure what you mean there. If I'm saying that the dietary laws are good laws and that I have kept them all my life, how am I saying that anything goes in spirituality?

Yahweh has allowed it and He created animals. Although yes, it can be somewhat distasteful killing an animal, Yahweh has allowed us to do so. I think you need to read Deuteronomy 12:32.

"What thing soever I command you, that shall ye observe to do: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

Following this directive will help us to clear up any confusion about what we should believe.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Messianic Israelite said:
9-10ths_Penguin. Good morning..Batya responded to this message in message 11. I don't really feel the need to add to it. Batya did a pretty good job explaining that.
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Something you might want to explain, though, if you think that the basis for God's commands around food is based on the risk of food-borne illness:

There are other groups (e.g. Sikhs) who believe that God commanded them to be vegetarian. Why do you think that God showed less wisdom toward the Jews than he showed to other religions?

In terms of a citation, I can't give you one. I've been looking for an article on the world wide web for a few minutes but all the descriptions of ruminants in scientific articles compare themselves to themselves, rather than to non-ruminants, so I apologise for that. It makes sense though, what I have said and believe. I'll keep looking anyway.
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Ah - so you made it up?
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Batya said:
Peter's vision was explained later in the chapter and it was speaking of people, not a sudden flip of the dietary laws.
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It was in reference to Gentile converts, who he said need not follow the letter of Jewish Law (613 Commandments). Paul also repeats this in his epistles.

Batya said:
Also, it is on those two commandments that all the law and prophets hang, they don't negate the rest, they simply summarize it. Yeshua kept the Torah and he is our perfect example. The apostles followed His example, and we should be following His example as well.
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See above.

Also:

Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

11:20: They were cut off because of their unbelief and you are there because of faith.”

14:20: “All foods are clean.”

I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

5:2: “If you have yourself circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you.”

5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”

6:15: “It means nothing whether you are circumcised or not.”

Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

Hebrews 7:18: “The former Commandment (I.e. priests according to the order of Melchizedek) has been annulled because of its weakness and uselessness.”

8:7: “If that first Covenant had been faultless, there would have been no place for a second one.”

8:13: “When he says ‘a new covenant’, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing.”

10:9: “In other words, he takes away the first Covenant to establish the second.”
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Batya said:
With chickens, it's interesting, because chickens have changed dramatically from the way they were years ago. They have been bred for certain characteristics (not in itself a bad thing, but I believe they've taken it a bit far in regards to the health of the bird itself), but primarily the conditions in which chickens are raised now days is a huge contributor to the health risks.
The fact that the permitted animals are less risky or more healthful is an expression of our Creator's wisdom, whether or not that is the main reason for the laws.
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Chickens are by nature quite dirty birds that includes their eating droppings of other animals. The kosher laws of clean/unclean do not at all appear to relate to our secular definition of clean/unclean, so it's not always certain what the full criteria might have been for this judgment. Generally speaking, the approach to this sorta became "it is what it is", thus not explanation is needed.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Messianic Israelite said:
I think someone already answered your question and they did so well, but yes, Matthew 5:17-20 shows that at the forefront of Yahshua's ministry, he clearly stated he hadn't come to weaken, lessen, or abolish the law of Yahweh but rather to fulfil, or, do it.
Click to expand...
The general tone of the Law, yes, but not the letter of the Law as I've pointed out in a previous post.

Messianic Israelite said:
Unfortunately, Chr-stianity has strayed considerably to what the Messiah taught, and that his disciples and apostles believed.
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Jesus gave the Apostles the power and right to make changes, which they did.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe those were very good laws for the times in which they were written and well after until modern techniques made food a lot safer.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Marcion said:
Me thinks it is wiser to take a more rational approach and avoid all food and drink that makes the mind or body static or too speedy and prefer sentient food and drink such as fruits, veggies, grains, dairy, nuts, pulses, beans and seeds (except onion-family, mushrooms, blue cheeses, red lentils, nutmeg and durian fruit which have static effect) that keep the mind and body pure and healthy.

It is ok to follow religious dietary laws as long as all the food and drink you take are from the sentient category as well. If you wish to lead a truely spiritual life.
Click to expand...

I believe I have no problem with my spiritual life eating normal food.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
No one keeps the whole mosiac law. It's impossible.... there is no Temple to go to to sacrifice animals for example.
And I bet you don't Stone people either.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wildswanderer said:
He fulfilled the law. He rendered it obsolete.
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Muffled said:
I believe the law is still there. That does not mean Jesus requires me to keep all of it.
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Why don't we just scrap the whole OT and organize a church around only the New testament?
Trying to mesh the OT laws and world view with the New has led to nothing but political cherry-picking, factionalism, squabbling and war.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Muffled said:
I believe the law is still there. That does not mean Jesus requires me to keep all of it.
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So Jesus recommended cherry-picking the laws that were convenient to you and ignoring the rest?
That sounds like a recipe for chaos.
Why not scrap the laws altogether, start from scratch, and develop utility-based laws that fit the society we currently live in?
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Valjean said:
So Jesus recommended cherry-picking the laws that were convenient to you and ignoring the rest?
That sounds like a recipe for chaos.
Why not scrap the laws altogether, start from scratch, and develop utility-based laws that fit the society we currently live in?
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No, where did you come up with that? Who called Paul to minister to the gentile? Jesus! Who told Peter to take and eat unclean food. ,God did( also Jesus)
In fact Jesus broke the Sabbath law himself.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Valjean said:
Why don't we just scrap the whole OT and organize a church around only the New testament?
Trying to mesh the OT laws and world view with the New has led to nothing but political cherry-picking, factionalism, squabbling and war.
Click to expand...
Well we don't follow the OT laws as already stated. The OT is important for understanding how God worked out the salvation plan, but we are New Testament believers.
Do you know any Christians who don't cut their sideburns or wear mixed fabrics?
I know some Jewish Christians keep the feast days and the Sabbath, but they still don't keep the Entire law. And most of us are gentiles anyway. Paul said we should not go back to the bondage of the law.
 
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