I did use my own words with just a scriptural reference as to why I was using the words that I chose.
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The joys of heaven
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Could you put the verses below or above your post?
Unless it's a biblical debate or a debate I know will be a long productive one, I don't read verses. I usually have to look them up on biblehub and read the context and guess your (and others) points. Since I'm not biblically literate (only read the bible once), that's not an appropriate reference for me to understand what you're saying.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sure seems that way to me. Thus far you're the only one who answered and you seem to be just as confused as to how anyone could choose to go to a heaven that won't accept their loved ones as I am.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I believe in Heaven ... but only here and now on earth ... being nice to each other, living a Dharmic life
I believe in God, but not the God you describe who plays favors, unconditional is an attribute of God
I believe in 1 Truth, so we end up the same. Different Faith just means different opinions in this world. Does not impact reality/Truth
Impossible in my view
I don't believe in Duality being the Reality. So, we are not body, mind, emotions ... you talk here about emotional love, we are not that IMO
Note: Above is my opinion, not to impose on others nor to debate, just a view I have today. Might even change over time.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Well, I wouldn't assume you believe in heaven..... but even if they were a place or union with god or so have you, many would say good by to their loved one to be with god. To death do us part does have a deeper meaning-the commitment vow doesn't seem to mean much as death is seen as temporary and usually commitments to "death do us part" should also include loss of heaven. I think maybe that's why priests are celibate among other reasons. Taking two vows would throw the commitment off because the priest would need to put just as much faith in the sacrament of marriage as he would in his vocation. I wonder how a christian can be married. How to say. Usually when people say death do they part, they are saying nothing can separate them... but I'd assume that would be invalidated when death means nothing as opposed to life without god.
I've done so before, but after we drop our physical bodies, we have a past life review on the astral plane. Those who have had positive lives on balance experience great joy which is called 'heaven'. Those who have had negative lives experience the opposite which is called hell.
At some point we take new bodies. But we also encounter others we have known. Thus my wife becomes my husband, father, mother, sister, brother, friend, boss, employee and so forth exploring all possible relationships with each other.
I have a female friend who I get along very well with. We tease each other, work together on shared projects and enjoy each other's company. One of the comments we've made is that we must have been happily married to each other in former lives to have this easy friendship in this one.
So we never leave each other behind but instead explore relationships in many different forms over many lives.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
Spouses Shmouses. As long as my Mom is there, and remembers her recipe for stuffed green peppers, I'll get over it.
Maybe a bit, for the first million years, but infinity is an infinite time to heal all wounds.
Revelation says the Lord will wipe the tears from our eyes. I believe it.
I think your scenario would be the exception. Most spouses are, or should be, of the same mind.
I never knew you. That's what Jesus said. But He was talking about someone's whole life. How long do we have a spouse. 20 years, 50 years, less?
Maybe He has one of those memory erasers like the men in black.
A neuralyzer is a device varying in size, that wipes the memory of a target. The set length of memory erased can be changed using dials, and the effects can be reversed.
Neuralyzer
Because my understanding of events is different than yours, I'm worried about something bigger than just one spouse.Neuralyzer
Even the Christians can't face the reality of the Script.
When the rest of the dead march across the broad plain of the earth, they will understand. This is the time of the weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The redeemed will look out into their eyes from the safety of the Holy City. Satan deceives the nations one last time. He tells them that their only chance is to rush the camp of God’s people, the City He loves, and get to the tree of life. The gates of the City are open, and judging by their vast numbers, like the sand on the seashore, it seems possible. But just when they start to make their move, fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
Revelation also says that the smoke from their torment will ascend forever, but they will be gone, lost and gone forever, dreadful sorry Clementine. The OT says they will be ashes under the souls of our feet.
"For they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts
I know it's a hard thing to confront. But the point of my post is that, while the saved are in Heaven, the lost are not going to be suffering for infinity in hell.
It's going to be hard enough to deal with the short time of judgement day prior to their annihilation.
I'm not looking forward to it.
These guys in the 747 here were having more fun than we will be when that days comes:
Onoma
Active Member
ah yes " context "
Perhaps if you said " I know people usually make threads like assuming heaven is a place you go when you die , buuuuut ", I would have taken the time to compose a more thoughtful response
I usually ignore questions that I feel are based on false dichotomies
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It makes me no nevermind. I get a pet peeve when people make issues about other people's OPs by a. answering the question that's not appropriate to them or b. answer the question even though they don't want to fully discuss it. I won't get mad at people for not answering my OP. Keeps me from repeating myself. Just ask for clarification.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't think I could. Which is one of the reasons I don't believe I'd want to go to heaven, even if it is a real place.
I suppose one could never really know this for sure until it happens to be the case that one is "with God" and without their loved ones. Though at this moment, here on Earth, I would have to say that it would bother me, yes, and that I likely wouldn't want to be with God - who was absent all of my life, while not getting to be with those who were proven to be present day-in and day-out throughout my life. If the people who actually care about me aren't present, but there is some way I could otherwise be with them, then I feel that I would choose to be with them instead, even if that did not include this "God" character.
Similar to above, I don't think I could fully enjoy myself knowing that I was in the place setup by the being who banished my loved ones to somewhere else, especially if I could comprehend or know that this "somewhere else" was torturous. I mean - I suppose God could do something like brainwash the pain away like I feel @KenS was getting at in his initial response, but that's just an artificial removal of that bad feeling, and it "going away" because you just love "being with God" is a sort of callousness in my estimation. Kind of like God "hardening Pharoah's heart." Changing someone's disposition to suit himself. It's called manipulation when it is done on Earth. Not sure why God gets a free pass from most people for what amounts to the exact same thing - even if it feels "positive."
I would hope not. Let's say I make it to heaven as an atheist, because I lived my life better than most Christian's actually do, it would still mean I am about to spend time in the presence of a being who basically has not been present in my life on Earth for even one moment - even though He was supposedly integral to my very existence. He just wasn't there. And when I get to heaven I find that those who actually WERE there for me just aren't around? And then God wants to dose me with some kind of "Neverland juice" so that I don't even care that the people I love aren't around me, and are likely writhing in agony in some "bad place" (which lasts forever from the accounts I have heard, let's not forget)? No thanks. Sounds really, really dumb to me.
Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. If people that I know are not righteous, it is sad. But, it is also what they want and I think the end result is also what they want. I am happy, if everyone gets what they want. I am also happy, if unrighteous and evil doesn’t continue forever.
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
Not in my case. Both my wife and I received the Righteousness of God at the same time. I was the first in my family and she was the second in her's. But from there, both her and I, reached brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, nieces, nephews and all have been born-again after we shared the goodness of God and the righteousness which is by Jesus Christ.
Part of the problem, IMO, is that man begins to judge who has been received by God when it is in His domain as only He can judge the heart of man.
The marriage contract is "til death do you part," so you might need a lawyer to enforce that in heaven (but all lawyers are in hell where scheming, lying, and conniving are attributes).
It would be confusing to marry wife 1, then when she dies or you divorce, you marry wife 2, then wife 3, then wife 4. In heaven, which ex do you stay with?
By going your separate ways (for example, Roman Catholic vs. Irish Catholic), would it be the same God, or same heaven?
Would God be jealous (as God is known to be) if someone guessed wrong and worshiped the wrong God?
It seems as though worshiping the wrong God might be worse than worshiping no God at all.
It seems obvious that, in heaven, sex is not involved. Rather, relationships are based on friendship and memories.
I wonder if one could transport instantaneously to be with someone in heaven, or is there a waiting line? I wonder how one spirit may communicate with another in heaven? Is it like it is on earth (if you want to speak to wife 1, please press 1....if you want to speak to wife 2, please press 2....I'm sorry, you took too long to make a choice, please hang up and try your call again). That sounds more like hell to me.
What if your wife is busy with a former husband? What if your wife met a new man (or woman)? I don't suppose it would be lesbianism for two women to merely be friends in heaven.
Maybe heaven is like being with a lot of people at the same time. If so, I wonder if we would be able to get along with all of the ex-husbands of our former wives?
What do we do in heaven? Do we all have harps? If so, we would either have to play the same music or it would be a jumble of everyone's music all playing at the same time (it would be like having a little kid learning to play the tuba all day long, hitting sour notes and not letting up the noise night and day).
It must be hard to carry around a harp in heaven all day. It seems like such a burden if you are not playing it.
Maybe we are made in God's image? If so, spirits don't have a body. Therefore, it must not be our image that looks like the image of God. Therefore, we must be like God in other ways? Perhaps, as imperfect beings, we are similar to God? But that would make God imperfect. If mankind gets angry, does that mean that God can get angry? Certainly God got angry at his creation on many occasions in the past (Noah, Eden, Sodom, etc.). Maybe we are jealous, as God is jealous? Maybe the failings of mankind are the same as the failings of God?
Perhaps it is not God who should forgive our sins, but perhaps it is we who should forgive God's sins?
It would be confusing to marry wife 1, then when she dies or you divorce, you marry wife 2, then wife 3, then wife 4. In heaven, which ex do you stay with?
By going your separate ways (for example, Roman Catholic vs. Irish Catholic), would it be the same God, or same heaven?
Would God be jealous (as God is known to be) if someone guessed wrong and worshiped the wrong God?
It seems as though worshiping the wrong God might be worse than worshiping no God at all.
It seems obvious that, in heaven, sex is not involved. Rather, relationships are based on friendship and memories.
I wonder if one could transport instantaneously to be with someone in heaven, or is there a waiting line? I wonder how one spirit may communicate with another in heaven? Is it like it is on earth (if you want to speak to wife 1, please press 1....if you want to speak to wife 2, please press 2....I'm sorry, you took too long to make a choice, please hang up and try your call again). That sounds more like hell to me.
What if your wife is busy with a former husband? What if your wife met a new man (or woman)? I don't suppose it would be lesbianism for two women to merely be friends in heaven.
Maybe heaven is like being with a lot of people at the same time. If so, I wonder if we would be able to get along with all of the ex-husbands of our former wives?
What do we do in heaven? Do we all have harps? If so, we would either have to play the same music or it would be a jumble of everyone's music all playing at the same time (it would be like having a little kid learning to play the tuba all day long, hitting sour notes and not letting up the noise night and day).
It must be hard to carry around a harp in heaven all day. It seems like such a burden if you are not playing it.
Maybe we are made in God's image? If so, spirits don't have a body. Therefore, it must not be our image that looks like the image of God. Therefore, we must be like God in other ways? Perhaps, as imperfect beings, we are similar to God? But that would make God imperfect. If mankind gets angry, does that mean that God can get angry? Certainly God got angry at his creation on many occasions in the past (Noah, Eden, Sodom, etc.). Maybe we are jealous, as God is jealous? Maybe the failings of mankind are the same as the failings of God?
Perhaps it is not God who should forgive our sins, but perhaps it is we who should forgive God's sins?
No, I don't think it is as much a "brain-wash" but an overcoming love.
My sister-in-law lost her toddler when a drunken cousin ran over the toddler. It was painful and many tears were shed... but the love of God simply heals the broken hearted.
Obviously, we are talking about something that no one on earth has really felt the full impact. We are talking about "possibility thinking" at this point.
Thanks for helping me clarify.
Ken
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
In what sense are you happy for those who get what they want?
I would assume those who did not choose god followed their heart to a more healthier belief for them-in that sense, are you happy?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's one of those scenarios that's hard to imagine, I'm sure?
Yes! Beyond my comprehension for sure!
Yes, the wages, the price tag, that sin pays is: death.
Not some death with a post-mortem penalty, or double jeopardy.
Death stamps the total price tag of sin as: Paid In Full - Romans 6:23,7
As far as the dead: both the righteous and unrighteous can be resurrected as per Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
It is only the ' wicked ' that are destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35.
So, the ' eternal punishment ' for the wicked is that the wicked ' perish ' they are 'destroyed forever' - 2 Peter 3:9
Can you think of anyone righteous that went to hell the day he died _________________
Righteous Jesus went to hell the day he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Not to some burning religious-myth hell taught as being Scripture, but 'biblical hell' the grave for the sleeping dead - John 11:11-14
Only some people called to heaven (Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10; Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-30 )
They have two (2) jobs to do in heaven:
1) they serve mankind living on Earth as 'kings' taking care of governmental responsibilities towards people of Earth.
2) they serve as 'priests' taking care of spiritual duties towards people of Earth - Revelation 5:9-10.
Yes, the angelic spirits have bodies: invisible to us spirit bodies.
We are made in God's image in that we can reflect (like a mirror) God's attributes or qualities of: Love, justice, wisdom and mercy to varying degrees.
According to Christians, wife and wife chose the same eternal destiny. So, that should be no problem. Apart from all that annoying gnashing of teeth.
Ciao
- viole