Allah being merciful

Unveiled Artist · Nov 12, 2020

Clara Tea said:
In discussing Islam's Allah's mercy you said "keep it positive,"

Nothing is more positive than hope. Let us assure ourselves that oil-rich Arab world will donate generously to those displaced by negative adherents to Islam, as soon as they sever their link to them and stop ordering them. Thinking positive, lets hope the US will some day find a reason to stop fighting against Islamics.

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia

Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing - Wikipedia

Commemorating Tree of Life Synagogue Massacre

Islamic terrorism - Wikipedia

There was a Twilight Zone episode with Billy Mumy, called "It's A Good Life." Six year old Anthony Fremont won't allow negative thoughts, and turns bad people into Jack-In-The-Boxes, then wishes them into the corn field, and it is good that Anthony turns people into toys and wishes them into the corn field. Anthony only permits TV on one channel (cartoons all day long), and it is good that Anthony only has one channel. Anthony tells everyone when to go to bed, and it is good that Anthony tells everyone when to go to bed.

If we are ordered to say that all things are good, "all things are good."

https://fas.org/irp/world/para/manalo.pdf

The link above says that the Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) formed a Filiino Muslim separatist movement in the early 1990's. They came as peaceful Muslims, and were ousted as radical terrorists on "lightly guarded or soft targets" according to the analysis of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Bin Laden Family ‘Henchman’ Arrested in Philippines, a Growing Islamist Bastion (Published 2019)

Link above: Mahmoud Afif Abdeljalil, in the Philippines.

Operation Enduring Freedom – Philippines - Wikipedia
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SIGNS OF ALLAH'S MERCY:

3 Signs of Allah's Mercy to His Creation | About Islam

According to the link above by Aisha Stacey:

1. As mercy, it is not necessary to praise Allah constantly, you can save time (and money) with what I call the buck fifty prayer that quickly gets rid of the need to thank God and heed God's words.

2. Be merciful to slaves, and show compassion to orphans, friends, and family, and strangers.

3. Allah sent Muhammad as mercy to the world

4. Allah gave the Quran as a form of mercy.

5. Allah cut his mercy in 100 parts, and 1 of those 100 parts goes to his creation (animals, and mankind). Let be positive and not think of getting eaten alive by a wild mountain lion.

Ouch. Your font. Could you make it less distracting: underline, bold, and caps?

icehorse · Nov 12, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
I wanted to make a thread on this but couldn't figure if I should do it here. I don't have aversion against the Quran, Allah, and so have you so keep it positive.

To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.

-

In the bible, jesus walks on water and heals the dead to show that by faith a christian can do "the same thing" (or have the power of god behind their faith to make miraculous things happen).

Jesus also had conversations and lessons (like the mustard seed) to show the different levels of faith people can have from rocky soil to good soil and who an actual good/half/bad followers are in his father.

There are many examples of god (say jesus) being merciful beyond the claims. Actions that support the claim rather than the claim support itself.

Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?

If mercifulness can only be shown in practice, and not everyone is a Muslim, does Allah not love them (as a creator of all people)?

In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow. In the Quran, it sounds like god does not love all people only those who choose to follow.

Are these things true?

Thanks for starting this thread!

So far I'd say that I haven't heard much that demonstrates Allah being merciful. It could be, btw, that the word "merciful" has different connotations in different cultures. That said..

For the sake of discussion, let's say that there is an Allah as the Muslims describe, and that he revealed himself to Muhammad and dictated the Quran. From my cultural perspective, none of those are acts of mercy. They seem more salesman-y than merciful.

So perhaps it's worth seeing whether in Islam the word "mercy" has a different meaning than in - let's say - the West?

Here's the first definition I found, seems like a normal definition: "compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm."

Well according to Muslims, Allah does have the power to punish and/or harm humans. So maybe the question boils down to this: "Can we find in the Quran examples of Allah being compassionate?"

Unveiled Artist · Nov 12, 2020

Hm. Interesting. My reply to Blue disappeared.

TransmutingSoul · Nov 12, 2020

icehorse said:
For the sake of discussion, let's say that there is an Allah as the Muslims describe, and that he revealed himself to Muhammad and dictated the Quran. From my cultural perspective, none of those are acts of mercy. They seem more salesman-y than merciful.

I have found they are the source of Mercy and it is acceptance that embraces that Mercy.

Yes it is a different frame of reference needed.

Baha'u'llah put it this way;

".. Say: O people! Withhold not from yourselves the grace of God and His mercy. Whoso withholdeth himself therefrom is indeed in grievous loss..."

The Quran would offer much the same.

Regards Tony

Unveiled Artist · Nov 12, 2020

icehorse said:
Thanks for starting this thread!

So far I'd say that I haven't heard much that demonstrates Allah being merciful. It could be, btw, that the word "merciful" has different connotations in different cultures. That said..

For the sake of discussion, let's say that there is an Allah as the Muslims describe, and that he revealed himself to Muhammad and dictated the Quran. From my cultural perspective, none of those are acts of mercy. They seem more salesman-y than merciful.

So perhaps it's worth seeing whether in Islam the word "mercy" has a different meaning than in - let's say - the West?

Here's the first definition I found, seems like a normal definition: "compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm."

Well according to Muslims, Allah does have the power to punish and/or harm humans. So maybe the question boils down to this: "Can we find in the Quran examples of Allah being compassionate?"

Yes. I can see that. I was reading the link Conscious Thoughts gave and I read this:

So the believer must remain in a state between hoping for the Mercy of Allah and fearing His punishment, for Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Declare (O Muhammad) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.

And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment.” [15:49-50]

-

It seems that those who follow have to be in a state of service. Any wrong, they would be punished if not asked for forgiveness. It does make me wonder if Muslims are punished for not asking forgiveness, what about those who are not Muslims?

I think the mercifulness (forgiving, et cetera) are specific to Muslims. In the bible, it's pretty much the same. People were killed one way or another for not following god. Many christians call it justice. I'm not sure how Muslims justify it if they see fault in it at all (I'm assuming since I haven't read the Quran).

The thing is, if the Quran says all these bad things, then why don't Muslims practice the bad things? Why pick the good out of the Quran if its supposed to teach to kill other people?

Are they not following their own teachings?

firedragon · Nov 12, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
I wanted to make a thread on this but couldn't figure if I should do it here. I don't have aversion against the Quran, Allah, and so have you so keep it positive.

To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.

-

In the bible, jesus walks on water and heals the dead to show that by faith a christian can do "the same thing" (or have the power of god behind their faith to make miraculous things happen).

Jesus also had conversations and lessons (like the mustard seed) to show the different levels of faith people can have from rocky soil to good soil and who an actual good/half/bad followers are in his father.

There are many examples of god (say jesus) being merciful beyond the claims. Actions that support the claim rather than the claim support itself.

Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?

If mercifulness can only be shown in practice, and not everyone is a Muslim, does Allah not love them (as a creator of all people)?

In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow. In the Quran, it sounds like god does not love all people only those who choose to follow.

Are these things true?

The problem is, the Bible is not close to Jesus in dating. So we dont know how authentic it is. What ever it says is doubtful. And you have quoted some verses, but other can quote other verses so that will be a never-ending cut and paste battle that has gone by in this forum too many times.

Anyway, you want to see the Quran saying God is merciful? 114 times in the Quran it says Bismillahir Rahman ar Rahim. In the name of Allah, The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful.

firedragon · Nov 12, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
Do you know if he gave examples? Stories and illustrations?

If you read through the Quran you will see that the Qur'an has a different genre altogether. So expecting stories in a book that is not written in that manner is like expecting Aladdin and the wonderful lamp in Einsteins General Relativity.

They are poles apart.

paarsurrey · Nov 13, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
I wanted to make a thread on this but couldn't figure if I should do it here. I don't have aversion against the Quran, Allah, and so have you so keep it positive.

To anyone who knows this-please answer more than a couple of sentences. I'm actually curious.

-

In the bible, jesus walks on water and heals the dead to show that by faith a christian can do "the same thing" (or have the power of god behind their faith to make miraculous things happen).

Jesus also had conversations and lessons (like the mustard seed) to show the different levels of faith people can have from rocky soil to good soil and who an actual good/half/bad followers are in his father.

There are many examples of god (say jesus) being merciful beyond the claims. Actions that support the claim rather than the claim support itself.

Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?

If mercifulness can only be shown in practice, and not everyone is a Muslim, does Allah not love them (as a creator of all people)?

In christianity it is said that god loves all people just some choose not to follow. In the Quran, it sounds like god does not love all people only those who choose to follow.

Are these things true?

" Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?"

Yes, Quran is full of Allah (G-d) being Merciful:
[16:62]
وَ لَوۡ یُؤَاخِذُ اللّٰہُ النَّاسَ بِظُلۡمِہِمۡ مَّا تَرَکَ عَلَیۡہَا مِنۡ دَآبَّۃٍ وَّ لٰکِنۡ یُّؤَخِّرُہُمۡ اِلٰۤی اَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّی ۚ فَاِذَا جَآءَ اَجَلُہُمۡ لَا یَسۡتَاۡخِرُوۡنَ سَاعَۃً وَّ لَا یَسۡتَقۡدِمُوۡنَ ﴿۶۲﴾
And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing, He would not leave thereon a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term; and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 16: An-Nahl
Right, please?

Regards

Unveiled Artist · Nov 13, 2020

paarsurrey said:
" Does the Quran have any examples of Allah being merciful?"

Yes, Quran is full of Allah (G-d) being Merciful:
[16:62]
وَ لَوۡ یُؤَاخِذُ اللّٰہُ النَّاسَ بِظُلۡمِہِمۡ مَّا تَرَکَ عَلَیۡہَا مِنۡ دَآبَّۃٍ وَّ لٰکِنۡ یُّؤَخِّرُہُمۡ اِلٰۤی اَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّی ۚ فَاِذَا جَآءَ اَجَلُہُمۡ لَا یَسۡتَاۡخِرُوۡنَ سَاعَۃً وَّ لَا یَسۡتَقۡدِمُوۡنَ ﴿۶۲﴾
And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing, He would not leave thereon a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term; and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 16: An-Nahl
Right, please?

Regards

Do you have examples of mercy?

Stories such as a comparison, biblical story analogies that shows god doing things through jesus?

The website says there's a firewall.

icehorse · Nov 13, 2020

If I get a puppy and I treat it well, I do not think that means I'm being merciful. It means I'm being ethical. If I punish the puppy severely, that's not okay. That's unethical. When religious people bring up the idea that god might send some people to hell, their god is being unethical, imo.

So, if you believe in a creator, and you think that if you behave correctly your creator won't send you to hell, then not going to hell is NOT an act of mercy. (Man, talking about a mythical being leads to some weird sentences!)

In other words, if Allah does NOT send you to hell, that's a really weak example of "mercy".

Got any other examples?

firedragon · Nov 13, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
Do you have examples of mercy?

Stories such as a comparison, biblical story analogies that shows god doing things through jesus?

The website says there's a firewall.

The Quran is not a story book. It’s a different genre altogether.

halbhh · Nov 13, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
In the bible, it's pretty much the same. People were killed one way or another for not following god. Many Christians call it justice.

This is often misrepresented on the internet, so we should help other readers get it more accurate.

Often in forums we hear someone claim for example (one I've seen at least a dozen times) that someone is to be killed for merely picking up sticks.

As if there is nothing else going on there (a serious distortion that I've seen any times).

In the actual situation, Israel is in severe danger of continuing to abandon God -- their only purpose in their journey, their only salvation -- and so Israel has been commanded to have one day a week to totally devote to God, as a way to orient more of them to God, and away from all the false paths that make life meaningless and a failing to begin with.

So, mispainting of isolated verses like these -- trying to make it sound as if that God kills (or has executed) people that are innocents, for little reason (i.e., as if there are no great evils in a city like burning children in fires to idols, etc.) -- and with the key falsehood added that those are final (real) deaths! (that's the key falsehood, the most essential trick being put over in that talking point)

If deaths of these temporary bodies were final deaths, then God would be a mass murderer.

That key anti-religion message/talking point -- to get across the notion/implied meaning that death of this temporary body is the final real death -- that's a propaganda we see so often.

Which goes along with mispainting isolated verses or passages where God has someone executed, or does it Himself, in order to protect the more innocents from some great evil some are doing.

God will resurrect every innocent person to eternal life, but the unrepentant guilty to the "second death" (the actual real final death).

But the guilty removed in this temporary life get a second chance after this life!, those 'spirits in prison' -- as we learn in 1rst Peter 3:18-20.

That's some serious mercy.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 13, 2020

halbhh said:
This is often misrepresented on the internet, so we should help other readers get it more accurate.

Often in forums we hear someone claim for example (one I've seen at least a dozen times) that someone is to be killed for merely picking up sticks.

As if there is nothing else going on there (a serious distortion that I've seen any times).

In the actual situation, Israel is in severe danger of continuing to abandon God -- their only purpose in their journey, their only salvation -- and so Israel has been commanded to have one day a week to totally devote to God, as a way to orient more of them to God, and away from all the false paths that make life meaningless and a failing to begin with.

So, mispainting of isolated verses like these -- trying to make it sound as if that God kills (or has executed) people that are innocents, for little reason (i.e., as if there are no great evils in a city like burning children in fires to idols, etc.) -- and with the key falsehood added that those are final (real) deaths! (that's the key falsehood, the most essential trick being put over in that talking point)

If deaths of these temporary bodies were final deaths, then God would be a mass murderer.

That key anti-religion message/talking point -- to get across the notion/implied meaning that death of this temporary body is the final real death -- that's a propaganda we see so often.

Which goes along with mispainting isolated verses or passages where God has someone executed, or does it Himself, in order to protect the more innocents from some great evil some are doing.

God will resurrect every innocent person to eternal life, but the unrepentant guilty to the "second death" (the actual real final death).

But the guilty removed in this temporary life get a second chance after this life!, those 'spirits in prison' -- as we learn in 1rst Peter 3:18-20.

That's some serious mercy.

I'll have to read this in a bit. The OT people, the Isreates murdered by god's command to get the promise land. Abraham's wife (I think) turned into salt for turning back. Likewise the "sinners" of Sadaam were murdered at the justification of their sins/actions.

If it's about the message, there are other ways to "illustrate it" than the death of someone else.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 13, 2020

halbhh said:
This is often misrepresented on the internet, so we should help other readers get it more accurate.

Often in forums we hear someone claim for example (one I've seen at least a dozen times) that someone is to be killed for merely picking up sticks.

A lot of killing was from wars or punishment from people's sin-not on their own accord but from god.

halbhh said:
As if there is nothing else going on there (a serious distortion that I've seen any times).

In the actual situation, Israel is in severe danger of continuing to abandon God -- their only purpose in their journey, their only salvation -- and so Israel has been commanded to have one day a week to totally devote to God, as a way to orient more of them to God, and away from all the false paths that make life meaningless and a failing to begin with.

Yes. The biblical god gave them the promise land but at the expense of other people's lives. Colonization.

halbhh said:
So, mispainting of isolated verses like these -- trying to make it sound as if that God kills (or has executed) people that are innocents, for little reason (i.e., as if there are no great evils in a city like burning children in fires to idols, etc.) -- and with the key falsehood added that those are final (real) deaths! (that's the key falsehood, the most essential trick being put over in that talking point)

If the bible was written by god, and god doesn't condone sins, then of course those who sin would warrant some sort of punishment. It was when they took over their promised land.

The first time I read women and children in the bible it shocked me. I thought it was just from the internet but when I read it in scripture, it shocked me.

halbhh said:
If deaths of these temporary bodies were final deaths, then God would be a mass murderer.

That key anti-religion message/talking point -- to get across the notion/implied meaning that death of this temporary body is the final real death -- that's a propaganda we see so often.

No. It's just reading the book as is and not what we want it to be. If I wasn't familiar with christianity and read the bible I would have never got love and grace from it. Spiritually, I'd think instead of taking the "snake" out, teach Adam and Eve about the nature of temptation. Instead of giving the kid a F on the test for making the wrong answers, teach him how to do the problems so he can get the right answers himself.

But, yes. I would call god a mass murderer in biblical context. But personally, since the bible isn't something I based my life on, the depiction of god in the bible is no different than other books that depict justice by taking other people's lives. I don't know how any religious can make that positive unless they aren't reading it as is.

Temporary death is no different. The act and intent of taking a life is the key not whether one would be raised later or stay dead eternally.

halbhh said:
Which goes along with mispainting isolated verses or passages where God has someone executed, or does it Himself, in order to protect the more innocents from some great evil some are doing.

halbhh said:
God will resurrect every innocent person to eternal life, but the unrepentant guilty to the "second death" (the actual real final death).

But the guilty removed in this temporary life get a second chance after this life!, those 'spirits in prison' -- as we learn in 1rst Peter 3:18-20.

If you believe jesus is god, his father let him be executed as a sacrifice for others sins. Jesus was the "sacrificial lamb."

I don't see the verses misinterpreted actually. Believers have experiential bias. When seen from an objective view, it isn't a spiritual book.

firedragon · Nov 13, 2020

halbhh said:
This is often misrepresented on the internet, so we should help other readers get it more accurate.

Often in forums we hear someone claim for example (one I've seen at least a dozen times) that someone is to be killed for merely picking up sticks.

As if there is nothing else going on there (a serious distortion that I've seen any times).

In the actual situation, Israel is in severe danger of continuing to abandon God -- their only purpose in their journey, their only salvation -- and so Israel has been commanded to have one day a week to totally devote to God, as a way to orient more of them to God, and away from all the false paths that make life meaningless and a failing to begin with.

So, mispainting of isolated verses like these -- trying to make it sound as if that God kills (or has executed) people that are innocents, for little reason (i.e., as if there are no great evils in a city like burning children in fires to idols, etc.) -- and with the key falsehood added that those are final (real) deaths! (that's the key falsehood, the most essential trick being put over in that talking point)

If deaths of these temporary bodies were final deaths, then God would be a mass murderer.

That key anti-religion message/talking point -- to get across the notion/implied meaning that death of this temporary body is the final real death -- that's a propaganda we see so often.

Which goes along with mispainting isolated verses or passages where God has someone executed, or does it Himself, in order to protect the more innocents from some great evil some are doing.

God will resurrect every innocent person to eternal life, but the unrepentant guilty to the "second death" (the actual real final death).

But the guilty removed in this temporary life get a second chance after this life!, those 'spirits in prison' -- as we learn in 1rst Peter 3:18-20.

That's some serious mercy.

So when God commanded babies and animals to be killed in the OT, it was a taking of temporary life but giving eternal life? Is that what you mean?

halbhh · Nov 13, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
but at the expense of other people's lives

If we believe in God, then we believe death of this mortal body is only a doorway to what is next.

Only being "asleep" as Jesus put it:

Luke 8:52 Meanwhile everyone was weeping and mourning for her. But Jesus said, "Stop weeping; she is not dead but asleep."
Luke 8:53 And they laughed at Him, knowing that she was dead.

Whenever anyone implies, suggests, assumes that when this body dies -- is killed, executed, starves, succumbs to famine or illness or earthquake, or war.... dies in the destruction of a city, under an atomic bomb in Hiroshima, and so on....that his is a real (final) death, then it's the same as assuming that God doesn't exist.

We'd have to agree on that I think to even discuss any of it further, it seems like. You could back up and just discuss that alone with me if you like.

This might help though! --
Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

Everyone that does any crime, murder, or any else, will answer for it with perfect Justice (a reason to 'fear the Lord'), unless they have utterly repented (had a total change of being, entire, so that they are entirely a different person). Wonderfully a savior was sent to rescue us from our wrongdoing, if we would confess our wrong and turn to Him in faith.

halbhh · Nov 13, 2020

firedragon said:
So when God commanded babies and animals to be killed in the OT, it was a taking of temporary life but giving eternal life? Is that what you mean?

Innocents will actually live with God (actual existing, living) in a truly good Life. But will you or I?

God is the one that makes deaths only a passage to what is next.

This will help begin to show some of why Israel was to erase some cities, so that no trace at all remained of their culture (so that Israel would not do as they were doing by picking up part of their culture):
29The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."
Deuteronomy 12 NIV

But then we learn later in 1rst Peter that God actually gives the guilty (who hadn't heard the gospel) a 2nd chance, after this life(!).

So...it's analogous to a policeman who sends sleeping gas into a building where terrorists are killing hostages, to knock everyone out. Then carries out all the bodies and revives everyone, but the guilty separated from the innocents now.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 13, 2020

halbhh said:
If we believe in God, then we believe death of this mortal body is only a doorway to what is next.

Only being "asleep" as Jesus put it:

Luke 8:52 Meanwhile everyone was weeping and mourning for her. But Jesus said, "Stop weeping; she is not dead but asleep."
Luke 8:53 And they laughed at Him, knowing that she was dead.

Whenever anyone implies, suggests, assumes that when this body dies -- is killed, executed, starves, succumbs to famine or illness or earthquake, or war.... dies in the destruction of a city, under an atomic bomb in Hiroshima, and so on....that his is a real (final) death, then it's the same as assuming that God doesn't exist.

We'd have to agree on that I think to even discuss any of it further, it seems like. You could back up and just discuss that alone with me if you like.

This might help though! --
Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

Everyone that does any crime, murder, or any else, will answer for it with perfect Justice (a reason to 'fear the Lord'), unless they have utterly repented (had a total change of being, entire, so that they are entirely a different person). Wonderfully a savior was sent to rescue us from our wrongdoing, if we would confess our wrong and turn to Him in faith.

We have completely different views on death. I see that we completely die and whatever exists will exist in the hearts of our loved ones, environment, and things that we are connected to. Many people have been forgotten but at least in some respects hopefully for the better, we can still sense people are present even their mind, body, and soul have died.

With that in mind, I disagree that we need a savior for our sins. We choose to sin (commit a misdeed-say against our individual morals). We can choose not to. Excluding those who cannot for whatever justified reason, we don't have to sin if we do not want to.

The purpose in life isn't to try not to sin. That's human nature. It's to learn how to deal with our sinning in order to live a life that doesn't harm ourselves and harm others. That's where people come to spiritual awakening. A lot of times people believe in god and a lot of other people do not. I feel death is a huge motivator towards this awakening. Not because we will live forever with a creator, but because we won't live forever.

When I think of people killing other people, I can't see justification for it. They are literally ridding that person to a full life. Something they can experience with their body, their mind, their soul, and their spirit. They are one. Why deprive that person(s) of these things for a promised land or because that person committed a sin he or she can repent to?

Even more so, a lot of people say when you have a savior it takes away the responsibility for the person to mend his or her own actions. Now I get that (didn't before). I'd add that "fear of the lord" is a huge unattractive and slave-oriented way to follow love or someone you care for. If you really care for someone (and they cared for you), fear would be absent. You would WANT to love that person as a motivator in itself, not because you need an external motivator in order to do so.

halbhh · Nov 13, 2020

Unveiled Artist said:
We have completely different views on death. I see that we completely die and whatever exists will exist in the hearts of our loved ones,

ah! Ok, I just got a call and have to go help someone a while, but will be back to read the rest and talk more with you later.

firedragon · Nov 13, 2020

halbhh said:
Innocents will actually live with God (actual existing, living) in a truly good Life. But will you or I?

God is the one that makes deaths only a passage to what is next.

This will help begin to show some of why Israel was to erase some cities, so that no trace at all remained of their culture (so that Israel would not do as they were doing by picking up part of their culture):
29The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."
Deuteronomy 12 NIV

But then we learn later in 1rst Peter that God actually gives the guilty (who hadn't heard the gospel) a 2nd chance, after this life(!).

So...it's analogous to a policeman who sends sleeping gas into a building where terrorists are killing hostages, to knock everyone out. Then carries out all the bodies and revives everyone, but the guilty separated from the innocents now.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” Deuteronomy 13:13-19

Same argument?

Allah being merciful

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......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist

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......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist

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The wonder and awe of "all things".

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The wonder and awe of "all things".

The wonder and awe of "all things".

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The wonder and awe of "all things".

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