• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can you go to heaven after you die a nonbeliever?

BlueSky95

Member
I agree that the truth is the most important thing to pursue in this life. I believe I found it when I was 17, but after that and for most of my life I took it for-granted and lost my way, but I do not blame myself because there were many reasons I had to do what I did. But I will never take it for-granted anymore.

You are so young. When I was your age I was just getting out of my first graduate program and going for my first real job. So much has happened since then and I am at a completely different place in my life, so I take God and my religion much more seriously.

To me, knowing the truth means instant liberation, so no more fear of death, the truth itself frees one's mind from the bondage of this material world, of this organic world. That's what happened to me, I found it, took it for granted, was more focused on my day to day life and then I lost it, I lost that connection that we all seek... now I ask for one more glimpse into that world that I call Home..

So you too were in a way searching for the truth from a very young age. At around 16-17 I had my first out of body experience, that's when I started to read the New Testament, Jesus's words for the first time in my entire life, this out of body experience took me by surprise, I had no idea what happened to me, took me years to learn about this.

Life is like this my friend.. At one point in my life, some two years ago, I became a christian fundamentalist, I would tell people that they are heading straight to hell and think of myself as being good, while judging to my right and to my left, everyone. I moved from that "place" but while I made a huge progress, I can't move forward from this "old" me that has no desire to leave me.

I must study about your religion because I find it really interesting!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
To me, knowing the truth means instant liberation, so no more fear of death, the truth itself frees one's mind from the bondage of this material world, of this organic world. That's what happened to me, I found it, took it for granted, was more focused on my day to day life and then I lost it, I lost that connection that we all seek... now I ask for one more glimpse into that world that I call Home.
Back when I discovered the Baha'i Faith I was so young that I had no fear of death. I was not even searching for God or a religion but my older brother had been searching for years, little did I know it because we lived in different states and were not very close. He had looked at all the religions and he read the Bible five times before he stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith. Later, I considered it rather odd that he had been searching because none of us three children were raised in any religion or believing in God, since both our parents had left Christianity in early adulthood, before we were born.

My father had become an atheist and he died when I was 12 but I think my mother retained a belief in God, although I do not recall her talking about God. Then again, all hell broke loose when my father died suddenly of a heart attack and my mother started drinking. Shortly after that my sister and I joined the hippie movement and took a lot of drugs. I vaguely remember having some spiritual experiences from the drugs but I don't remember thinking about God. Then both my sister and I moved across the country and went off to college together and stopped taking drugs. Shortly after that we visited my brother and found out about the Baha'i Faith and joined.

As I think I said in another post on this thread, I do not believe that God wants us to be focused on the spiritual world while we are still living in this world because then we would and we would long for the other world and not want to be in this world. Aside from that, we have to traverse this material world existence to prepare ourselves for our life in the next world, as that is the main reason we are here, aside from helping others and making this word a better place for future generations..

What Baha'u'llah wrote about the afterlife and the journey of the soul was interesting to me when I was young, but since I had a whole life to live, I did not think about it much, and besides, death is not real for most people at that young age. Now that I am older I think a lot more about death and I am very grateful that I know where I am headed even though I do not know anything about the nature of the spiritual world. But the real value of being a Baha'i is that I know the purpose of this life and what I am here for, which of course ties in with the afterlife, which is where we will spend most of our existence.
So you too were in a way searching for the truth from a very young age. At around 16-17 I had my first out of body experience, that's when I started to read the New Testament, Jesus's words for the first time in my entire life, this out of body experience took me by surprise, I had no idea what happened to me, took me years to learn about this.

Life is like this my friend.. At one point in my life, some two years ago, I became a christian fundamentalist, I would tell people that they are heading straight to hell and think of myself as being good, while judging to my right and to my left, everyone. I moved from that "place" but while I made a huge progress, I can't move forward from this "old" me that has no desire to leave me.
I am sure there was a reason you had that out of body experience, and then became a fundamentalist Christian, just as there was a reason I had to go through everything I went through to get to where I am at today . I was all leading up to something, little did I know it at the time.

I never read one page of the Bible until eight year ago and I did not read any of the Baha'i Writings either because I was on a different path, but I sure have made up for lost time during the last either years. Better late than never.

Wherever you are at today I assure you that you won't stay stuck. I thought I was stuck for 12 years but I finally worked my way out of the hole I was in and progressed from that time on. When we are young every thing feels like forever but as we get older each year passes like it was a day!
I must study about your religion because I find it really interesting!
There is surely a lot to study and it is a lot easier now that we have the internet. Back in my day all we had were books. Please let me know if you want any suggestions or have any questions. Meanwhile, maybe this video will cheer you up and give you hope. It is not an "official" Baha'i video, but I think it was done very well and it is only three minutes long. It gives you an good idea of what Baha'is believe about the spiritual world, or heaven, and it is pertinent to the topic of this thread.

 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
To me, knowing the truth means instant liberation, so no more fear of death, the truth itself frees one's mind from the bondage of this material world, of this organic world. That's what happened to me, I found it, took it for granted, was more focused on my day to day life and then I lost it, I lost that connection that we all seek... now I ask for one more glimpse into that world that I call Home..

So you too were in a way searching for the truth from a very young age. At around 16-17 I had my first out of body experience, that's when I started to read the New Testament, Jesus's words for the first time in my entire life, this out of body experience took me by surprise, I had no idea what happened to me, took me years to learn about this.

Life is like this my friend.. At one point in my life, some two years ago, I became a christian fundamentalist, I would tell people that they are heading straight to hell and think of myself as being good, while judging to my right and to my left, everyone. I moved from that "place" but while I made a huge progress, I can't move forward from this "old" me that has no desire to leave me.

I must study about your religion because I find it really interesting!
I suggest you study the Bible instead of the teachings of some old man who says he came down from heaven with Christ's spirit.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I suggest you study the Bible instead of the teachings of some old man who says he came down from heaven with Christ's spirit.
He said he already studied the Bible.....

I suggest you study Baha'u'llah who came down from heaven with Christ's spirit.
I know you do not believe that, but think about the implications if it is really true.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Happy to meet another fellow human being that reached that "place".
I feel the same whenever I meet someone who has experienced it.

My friend, you're right, now I know but I can't "get back" to it at all, now I feel 1000 times more distant from my own Self than I ever felt in my entire live... do you have a Master? I have no one, I did everything on my own.. I did many experiments to see what works and what does not work. This NDE like experience came out of nowhere, I was not expecting it at all, maybe I really died in my sleep and this is how I got to that "place", I say "place", the thing is that it is here, I know it, I just know.. but I can't live it...

I don't think you are lazy, I think you do not really want to move that fast, you already know what's there.. at the end.
Yes, you are right. The key to get Grace (how I call it, as it is a gift to be alive and feel this Bliss, nothing I have accomplished) is for me to let go of attachments to get back to that "place", and to give up these few attachments is the part that slows me down. In the beginning I was very fanatic in giving up all, but it did not work that easy, was a kind of "mind" thing of "giving up", attachments were still in the system. And I need to saturate the system with Love to really get rid of those attachments I think.
 

DKH

Member
If you study the biblical account, He went in the helish places and beyond all heavens, not just in heavens, beyond all of them. Many say Christ was just the Son of God but can the Son of God go beyond the heavens where God has His resting place? It makes no sense, clearly, there is something more. To me, the Christ was the very manifestation of our Maker in the material world, in a visible way. The fact that He went there to fill all things is another interesting topic.

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
The idea that the Christ went to a place that doesn't exist is unfounded, except by some bible translators, who believed in the concept of a hell…This is exemplified by the verses in Ephesians 4:9-10 being in parenthesis, in several bible translations. Which, should only be a clarification of previous verses. However, there is no such need for clarification of Ephesian 4:1-8. So, it seems that these verses are not a clarification, but an addition of the Papists (Roman Catholics).

Bible scholar John Gills (in his exposition) explains: The Papists understand of his (the Christ) decent into a place they call Limbus Patrum, which they make to be contiguous to hell and where they say the patriarchs were detained till Christ' coming; and that he (the Christ) went thither to deliver them out of it; and that these are the captivity he (the Christ) led captive; all which is fictitious and fabulous: for certain it is, that the place Abraham was with Lazarus in his bosom was not near to hell, but afar off.

A review of the "parable" in Luke 16:19-31 and Ecclesiastes 12:7 could be helpful…

Also, a belief in the Trinity would be needed to be "assumed" that the Christ was the manifestation of the Supreme Being, which I reject. Where, the Greek word for heavens "Ouranos" (G3772) is related to the atmosphere of the earth, the sidereal heavens or the view that was visible on a clear night and the third heaven, where the visible image of God, the Christ and angels have an abode. Where, I write "the visible image of God," because God is invisible and cannot be confined or boxed-in. Therefore, God is infinity…

Since, the Christ was human and divine, there is only one way that this could occur: God, through His power impregnated Mary (Luke 1:34-35) and instilled a part of His nature into the embryo. This, also explains the decent of the Son of God (from the heavens)…Because, if the Christ preexisted (in any way) and entered the womb of Mary, then he would be the father of himself, not God the Father!

Note: Even though I have used bible verses for support, this posting is my personal opinion and should only be understood in that context.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I think 1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 15:29 imply it.But what makes this look like an impossibility is Hebrews 9:27.

I believe Heb 9:27 is not an impediment. God can dispose of a person any way He wishes. He is the judge not us.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
No. We non-believers don't go to heaven. It's saying that one needs to be baptized and believe in the spirit in order to go to heaven. Everyone would be judged and non-believers, by definition, would not go to heaven because we didn't do what believers' god wanted us to do. So, the bible has a win or loose scenario. If you believe, you win. If you don't, you loose.

I believe you should point out what yo think is saying that.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Catholic church certainly thinks non-believers can go to heaven. John Paul II is on record about this. And it seems only reasonable, if one believes in a loving God who is fair to humanity.

I believe a loving God can send a person to Hell. He is fair about that though.
 

BlueSky95

Member
The idea that the Christ went to a place that doesn't exist is unfounded, except by some bible translators, who believed in the concept of a hell…This is exemplified by the verses in Ephesians 4:9-10 being in parenthesis, in several bible translations. Which, should only be a clarification of previous verses. However, there is no such need for clarification of Ephesian 4:1-8. So, it seems that these verses are not a clarification, but an addition of the Papists (Roman Catholics).

Bible scholar John Gills (in his exposition) explains: The Papists understand of his (the Christ) decent into a place they call Limbus Patrum, which they make to be contiguous to hell and where they say the patriarchs were detained till Christ' coming; and that he (the Christ) went thither to deliver them out of it; and that these are the captivity he (the Christ) led captive; all which is fictitious and fabulous: for certain it is, that the place Abraham was with Lazarus in his bosom was not near to hell, but afar off.

A review of the "parable" in Luke 16:19-31 and Ecclesiastes 12:7 could be helpful…

Also, a belief in the Trinity would be needed to be "assumed" that the Christ was the manifestation of the Supreme Being, which I reject. Where, the Greek word for heavens "Ouranos" (G3772) is related to the atmosphere of the earth, the sidereal heavens or the view that was visible on a clear night and the third heaven, where the visible image of God, the Christ and angels have an abode. Where, I write "the visible image of God," because God is invisible and cannot be confined or boxed-in. Therefore, God is infinity…

Since, the Christ was human and divine, there is only one way that this could occur: God, through His power impregnated Mary (Luke 1:34-35) and instilled a part of His nature into the embryo. This, also explains the decent of the Son of God (from the heavens)…Because, if the Christ preexisted (in any way) and entered the womb of Mary, then he would be the father of himself, not God the Father!

Note: Even though I have used bible verses for support, this posting is my personal opinion and should only be understood in that context.

You and I are also manifestations of God, everything is a manifestation of God, it could not be otherwise when God is all there is, because if there's something outside God, then God and this "something" are contained in something greater than God. The difference between me, you and Jesus, the Christ is that He had the awareness of His own nature, we are under the influence of ignorance..... we lack the truth about the nature of our own selves. Do you know ( to know, not to believe ) the truth about your own self and about the nature of this reality? I don't know it, I only know glimpses from it because I had many experiences that helped me see beyond this world.

We can only give our subjective opinions, but I have studied dozens near death experiences and I myself have experienced something like that.
 
Top