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Baha’i community members: Baha’is spreading misunderstandings and misinformation about the community

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I wish you well and happy Jim. I will move on from these discussions. I will study for a while.

Regards Tony
I haven’t learned how to disagree with someone, and disapprove of what they say and do, as politely as you do, and with the same assurances of good will. I might be able to say those same words back to you, wishing you well and happy, with the same amount of sincerity, and maybe that would feel better to you. It doesn’t feel good to me at all. I would much rather you simply say that you’d rather not continue this conversation with me now. I don’t mean that you’re wrong to do it the way you do. Just that if it’s to comfort me, it doesn’t.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I wish you well and happy Jim. I will move on from these discussions. I will study for a while.

Regards Tony
I don’t think that unity is possible without honest and open communication. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have boundaries and withdraw from a conversation when someone crosses them. It might mean though that if you want unity you’ll need to find some way for people to tell you honestly and openly what they’re thinking, even if they haven’t reached perfection in doing it without hurting your feelings.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
That certainly captures some important aspects of what we’re about both as individuals and communities.
Thank you.

My behavior in Internet discussions is a long way from being the way I would like it to be, and I think that the behavior of Baha’is whose interests are conflicting with mine is better than mine in some ways. For example, I mostly like Tony’s politeness and your diplomacy, and I would be glad for some of it to rub off on me.

I see some wonderful possibilities in what the House of Justice is promoting, and in Internet forums and other online neighborhoods, that you and other Baha’is might not be seeing. Also, I see some harmful side effects in some things you say and do, detrimental to Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes, that either you don’t see or that you don’t see how to avoid. I don’t think that it’s wrong for me to try to call those to your attention. I think that there are right and wrong ways of doing that, and that I’m a long way from doing it right. That doesn’t mean to me that I should not try to do it at all.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you.

My behavior in Internet discussions is a long way from being the way I would like it to be, and I think that the behavior of Baha’is whose interests are conflicting with mine is better than mine in some ways. For example, I mostly like Tony’s politeness and your diplomacy, and I would be glad for some of it to rub off on me.

I see some wonderful possibilities in what the House of Justice is promoting, and in Internet forums and other online neighborhoods, that you and other Baha’is might not be seeing. Also, I see some harmful side effects in some things you say and do, detrimental to Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes, that either you don’t see or that you don’t see how to avoid. I don’t think that it’s wrong for me to try to call those to your attention. I think that there are right and wrong ways of doing that, and that I’m a long way from doing it right. That doesn’t mean to me that I should not try to do it at all.

What I find helpful is focusing on what I know and avoid speculation. I try to avoid criticising others and instead remember ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s exhortation to focus on the good qualities of others and avoid fault finding. So I’m at ease looking at what the Universal House of Justice has to say or the Guardian or one of the Central figures. That helps lift our vision beyond ourselves. So recently I’ve been looking at what Isaiah had to say the future. Members know the Hebrew Bible better than the Baha’i writings but it all leads in the same direction anyhow... the ever changing religion of God, Eternal in the past, Eternal in the future.

Anyway, you have many valuable insights and perceptions to offer from your extensive experience in Baha’i communities and on Assemblies. You and Tony have spent a lot of time on internet discussions so that’s valuable experience too. We have different views about some key issues but I’m totally good about it.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’m still thinking that Baha’is might be afraid to say anything in Internet discussions that other Baha’is might think is part of some campaign of opposition, and that might seriously undermine what we and other people could all be learning and doing together. Now I’m planning to start a discussion about all the topics associated with the campaign of internal opposition, to show that there’s nothing for anyone to be afraid of. I’m posting about it here first, because I think that might help improve what happens when I start a thread about it that’s open to everyone.
Differing from attacks familiar in the past, it seeks to recast the entire Faith into a sociopolitical ideology alien to Bahá’u’lláh’s intent. In the place of the institutional authority established by His Covenant, it promotes a kind of interpretive authority which those behind it attribute to the views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
As passages in the enclosed reprint make clear, this campaign of internal opposition—while purporting to accept the legitimacy of the Guardianship and the Universal House of Justice as twin successors of Bahá’u’lláh and the Center of His Covenant—attempts to cast doubt on the nature and scope of the authority conferred on them in the Writings. When other Bahá’ís have pointed out that such arguments contradict explicit statements of the Master, persons behind the scheme have responded by calling into question the soundness of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s own judgment and perspective. Gradually, these arguments have exposed the view of those involved that Bahá’u’lláh Himself was not the voice of God to our age but merely a particularly enlightened moral philosopher, one whose primary concern was to reform existing society.

By itself, such opposition would likely stand little chance of influencing reasonably informed Bahá’ís. As one of the letters in the enclosed reprint (20 July 1997) points out, the scheme relies for effect, therefore, on exploiting the confusion created in modern thought by the reigning doctrines of materialism. Although the reality of God’s continuous relationship with His creation and His intervention in human life and history are the very essence of the teachings of the Founders of the revealed religions, dogmatic materialism today insists that even the nature of religion itself can be adequately understood only through the use of an academic methodology designed to ignore the truths that make religion what it is.

In general, the strategy being pursued has been to avoid direct attacks on the Faith’s Central Figures. The effort, rather, has been to sow the seeds of doubt among believers about the Faith’s teachings and institutions by appealing to unexamined prejudices that Bahá’ís may have unconsciously absorbed from non-Bahá’í society. In defiance of the clear interpretation of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and the Guardian, for example, Bahá’u’lláh’s limiting of membership on the Universal House of Justice to men is misrepresented as merely a “temporary measure” subject to eventual revision if sufficient pressure is brought to bear. Similarly, Shoghi Effendi’s explanation of Bahá’u’lláh’s vision of the future Bahá’í World Commonwealth that will unite spiritual and civil authority is dismissed in favor of the assertion that the modern political concept of “separation of church and state” is somehow one that Bahá’u’lláh intended as a basic principle of the World Order He has founded. Particularly subtle is an attempt to suggest that the Mashriqu’l-Adhkár should evolve into a seat of quasi-doctrinal authority, parallel to and essentially independent of the Local House of Justice, which would permit various interests to insinuate themselves into the direction of the life processes of the Cause.

Typically, when misrepresentations of the kind described are challenged, the reaction of those behind the campaign has been to claim that their civil rights are being threatened, an assertion that is of course meaningless in the light of the purely voluntary nature of Bahá’í membership. Much emphasis is placed by them also on academic freedom, their view of which proves, on examination, to be merely freedom on their part to pervert scholarly discourse to the promotion of their own ideological agenda, while seeking to exclude from discussion features of the Bahá’í Faith that are central to the Writings of its Founders.
I’m not sure how to title the thread. Maybe “Questioning some fundamental beliefs of Baha’is.” I might raise questions about everything in the Faith that was challenged in the campaign of internal opposition.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
Maybe I’ll start a discussion about Sen McGlinn’s “postmodern” vision for the Baha’i Faith. I studied that very carefully, and posted some thoughts about in another forum.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’m feeling foolish now. What was I thinking? There are plenty of places on the Internet for any Baha’is to discuss anything they want to with any other Baha’is.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I might still want to discuss Sen McGlinn’s vision for the Baha’i Faith, if I think that some Baha’is following discussions in these forums might be thinking that way. Or even if what I say could have ripple effects outside these forums, if any Baha’is are still thinking that way. I’m not actually sure that McGlinn is still thinking that way, himself.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
This passage from the Will and Testament of Abdul-Baha. Hopefully it will provide the necessary guidance.

The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both).

Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God; whoso disputeth with him hath disputed with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God. May the wrath, the fierce indignation, the vengeance of God rest upon him! The mighty stronghold shall remain impregnable and safe through obedience to him who is the Guardian of the Cause of God.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
This thread is another example of my failed efforts to find some common interests in the Baha’i Faith between me and Baha’is promoting their beliefs in Internet discussions. I wanted to try to discuss with them how to reduce or counteract the spread of misinformation about the Baha’i Faith, in Internet discussions.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I wish you well and happy Jim. I will move on from these discussions. I will study for a while.

Regards Tony
I don’t see any common interests between us, from being members of the same faith community, but I do see a possible common interest between us as targets of vilification because of what people think we believe and don’t believe.

“The fears and agitation which the revelation of this law provokes in men’s hearts should indeed be likened to the cries of the suckling babe weaned from his mother’s milk,”

I agree pretty much with people’s complaints about the behavior of people promoting and defending Baha’i beliefs in Internet discussions, but I think now that those are just excuses for the campaigns of vilification. I think now that the real target is the laws of God. Baha’i are not the only target. The target of the attacks is the idea of a God who created us and gives us laws and prescriptions for living. Anyone in any religion who promotes that idea is a target of the same vilification campaigns. Besides being at threat to people when they’re wallowing in self worship and self gratification, it’s also a threat to global monopoly interests.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don’t see any common interests between us, from being members of the same faith community, but I do see a possible common interest between us as targets of vilification because of what people think we believe and don’t believe.

“The fears and agitation which the revelation of this law provokes in men’s hearts should indeed be likened to the cries of the suckling babe weaned from his mother’s milk,”

I agree pretty much with people’s complaints about the behavior of people promoting and defending Baha’i beliefs in Internet discussions, but I think now that those are just excuses for the campaigns of vilification. I think now that the real target is the laws of God. Baha’i are not the only target. The target of the attacks is the idea of a God who created us and gives us laws and prescriptions for living. Anyone in any religion who promotes that idea is a target of the same vilification campaigns. Besides being at threat to people when they’re wallowing in self worship and self gratification, it’s also a threat to global monopoly interests.

I see that is our life, to fight light over darkness and it started way way back in Genesis 1:3-5 "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness." Baha'u'llah has said there is Light in all Faiths, Abdul'baha asked us always to look for the light and become as He was, a spreader of only Light.

In Isaiah 42:16 it tells us this is what God will always do - "I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.'

In Romans 13:12 it gives the promise that will come - 'The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armour of light.'

Regards Tony
 
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