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Is Christian Mysticism Evil?

dfnj

Well-Known Member
But St. Augustine teaches that we know the essences of things in rationibus ceternis, but this knowledge has its starting point in the data of sense (cf. Qustiones, LXXXIII, c. xlvi).

IOW, if our senses are bonded to God, first of all, then our rationale will proceed go connect to Him as well... And if both our senses and rationale are connected to God, then, and only then, will our actions also be connected with God as well.

...This is an introduction to the most extensive form of Christianity possible... Only few have ever *truly* achieved it to it's fullest potential.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. The only thing I would add is how our actions are received by others is purely a subjective opinion. It is actually the people around us who decide if we are evil or not based on how they react to our actions. This is why I have a doctrine of personal responsibility when it comes to my salvation. My salvation doesn't come from saying magic words or church rituals. I can only be absolved of my sins by getting forgiveness from the people I have actually sinned against. In my way of thinking you have to take very good care of your personal relationships.

It is not just our connection to Him that matters. It is our connections to other people around us and ourselves. When you create suffering in others you will inevitably live a life of suffering. Our brains have a nasty way of punishing our hubris with self-inflicting wounds. But I do agree with your sentiment if we are properly connected to God we would probably not commit so many sins in the first place.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. The only thing I would add is how our actions are received by others is purely a subjective opinion. It is actually the people around us who decide if we are evil or not based on how they react to our actions. This is why I have a doctrine of personal responsibility when it comes to my salvation. My salvation doesn't come from saying magic words or church rituals. I can only be absolved of my sins by getting forgiveness from the people I have actually sinned against. In my way of thinking you have to take very good care of your personal relationships.

It is not just our connection to Him that matters. It is our connections to other people around us and ourselves. When you create suffering in others you will inevitably live a life of suffering. Our brains have a nasty way of punishing our hubris with self-inflicting wounds. But I do agree with your sentiment if we are properly connected to God we would probably not commit so many sins in the first place.

Sounds like you're ahead of me on the path... I'm trying to get where you are. :)
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Yes. Thomas and the Didache for a couple. What about the Wesleyan hymns? The Q document? The writings of Augustine of Hippo and Hildegard of Bingen? Origen? Thomas Cranmer?

Please who one example of important information that they have that is missing from the Bible?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
I thought you argued that the Bible contains all of Christian experience and teaching. The Gospel of Thomas is nothing but Jesus quotes. Yet it’s not in the Bible. Thomas contradicts nothing in the canonicals, yet it’s not in the Bible. I guess everything isn’t in the Bible, then. What about the Didache? The teaching of the apostles — contradicts none of Jesus’ teaching, yet not in the Bible.

Do they have something that is not in the Bible, that would be important to be in the Bible?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Do they have something that is not in the Bible, that would be important to be in the Bible?
What does any other text have that’s “important to be in the Bible?” That they exist and have historic and ecclesiastical provenance is enough, yes?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. The only thing I would add is how our actions are received by others is purely a subjective opinion. It is actually the people around us who decide if we are evil or not based on how they react to our actions. This is why I have a doctrine of personal responsibility when it comes to my salvation. My salvation doesn't come from saying magic words or church rituals. I can only be absolved of my sins by getting forgiveness from the people I have actually sinned against. In my way of thinking you have to take very good care of your personal relationships.

It is not just our connection to Him that matters. It is our connections to other people around us and ourselves. When you create suffering in others you will inevitably live a life of suffering. Our brains have a nasty way of punishing our hubris with self-inflicting wounds. But I do agree with your sentiment if we are properly connected to God we would probably not commit so many sins in the first place.
I really like this, but what if others refuse to forgive you? Then what? What if someone holds a grudge because of their own self-absorption?
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
I am sorry but a Catholic quote from wiki does not justify the occult within christianity as it is not biblical and the scriptures simply condemn this practice which God calls an abomination.
I am sorry brother but you just don't get it. Where is "contemplative or experiential knowledge of God" (also known as mystical experience) condemned? Right the opposite - the scripture is often supporting this. For example:

When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance. (Acts 22:17)
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
If that is the meaning, I don’t think it is wrong, but I wouldn’t use the word mystic, because it seems to have some kind of secrecy in it.
Well... it does have some kind of secrecy. I think it’s Murray Bodo who says that we each have a secret center in our being that is God’s alone. And we must work to apprehend it through our prayer life.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Let's begin with a legitimate and honest definition for Christian mysticism. From the Westminster Dictionary of Theological terms (1996, Westminster John Knox Press; Donald K. McKim): The experience of union with God by the bond of love that is beyond human power to attain and that brings a sense of direct knowledge of and fellowship with God centered in Jesus Christ.

As shown earlier in posts # 227 mysticism is world-wide and has it's origin in occult teachings such as those used in the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity and is a practice that is condemned in the bible in DEUTERONOMY 18:10-12; LEVITICUS 19:31; LEVITICUS 20:27. All the Roman Catholic Church does and those who practice it within other Churchs is to rebrand mysticism to justify it's practice by appending the the word by adding "christian" in front of it. As posted earlier calling a pig a horse does not make it so because one changes it's name. So called 'christian mysticism" is simply the same mysticism that has it's origin in the occult which is an abomination with God according to the scriptures.

The dictionary of Theological Terms is used as a reference book in theology classes taught at accreditied, graduate seminaries. Donald McKim is author of several books, including: Theological Turning Points: Major Issues in Christian Thought, Presbyterian Beliefs: A Brief Introduction, and The Westminster handbook to Reformed Theology. In other words, McKim is a Protestant, Reformed theologian and scholar.

Christian mysticism is practiced in many church's. The origin however within christianity is from the Mother Church (Roman Catholic) which the I believe the scriptures teach is the apostate whore of BABYLON and the MOTHER of HARLOTS (apostate Christianity). The origin of "christian misticism from the Catholic Church simply comes from rebranding the accoult. I am not saying the people here as God has his people in every Church, just the teachings of these Churchs that lead people away from God and his Word that are in fault by departing the faith. So just because you find somthing in a theological text book does not mean that it is biblical unless you can prove it is from the scriptures in my view.

So, let's take a look at some examples of Christian mysticism and see if they meet the criteria of the definition, or if they are, indeed, "of the occult" and "summoning spirits." From Yearning for the Wind: Celtic Reflections on Nature and the Soul by Tom Cowan, in the introduction: "The possibilities of reestablishing communication with nature and our souls and reconnecting with the cycles, rhythm, and flow of the river of life reminds us that the light we seek is not far away." (p. 10)............ (snipped repetition)

What you think nature has to do with God except for it being God's creation, I do not know. All I get from your quotes that I read here is new age thinking and teachings that do not go into what takes place within mysticism. As shown earlier in posts # 227 mysticism is world-wide and has it's origin in occult teachings such as those used in the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity and is a practice that is condemned in the bible in DEUTERONOMY 18:10-12; LEVITICUS 19:31; LEVITICUS 20:27. Mysticsm in and of itself is simply a method that seeks to find God outside of Christianity and the bible. It is the scriptures alone that give the path to salvation which is through believing and following Gods' Word. I believe accoding to the scriptures that there is no other path to achieve salvation. Mysticism is not biblical and is condemned in the bible.

For example the scriptures alone teach that salvation is a gift of God as we continue to believe and follow what Gods Word says *EPHESIANS 2:8-9.

Yet in the so called "christian mysticism" books by Evelyn Underhill (The Complete Christian Mystic: A Practical, Step-By-Step Guide for Awakening to the Presence of God;Practical Mysticism) or Simone Weil and others.

This so called "christian mysticism" requires a step by step process that a a person must do to reach God of the dead saints by practicing mystic rites which some of these books list as 1. awakening, 2. puration through making yourself holy, 3. illumination through meditation and prayer, 4. Dark night of the soul - withdrawal symtome of God and 5. Complete union God's presence always with you)

This is directly opposed to the scriptures which teach that our salvation and God's presence only come by believing and following God's Word and it is a gift of God and not of works (rites of mysticism) lest any man should boast (EPHESIAN 2:8-9).

Now if the scriptures teach that our salvation is a free gift from God and that there is no other way to reach God except through faith in believing and following God's Word and mysticism has it's origins in WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity and is a practice that is condemned in the bible in DEUTERONOMY 18:10-12; LEVITICUS 19:31; LEVITICUS 20:27 I believe all your sharing here is the occult and teaching that you can reach God outside of the bible for which the scriptures condemn. As posted earlier the difference between the occult and mysticism as shown in post # 234 linked

Mysticism is the practice and experience of the occult without a knowledge of the occult and what you are doing! (Mystic and Occult in Max Hendels Writings). This is not biblical and does not have it's origin in the scriptures or the teachings of JESUS and the bible!

SHAMANISM which is one of the oldest forms of mysticism has it's origns in WITCHCRAFT and the "occult" and uses familiar spirits, spirit guides and seeks to talk with the spirit world as shown in the linked sections of this post.

A shaman (/ˈʃɑːmən/ SHAH-men) is someone who is regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination (Wikipedia).

It is defined as a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to perceive and interact with what they believe to be a spirit world and channel these transcendental energies into this world (Wikipedia). They seek to achieve this with many techniques that include going into trances through meditation. SHAMANISM is practiced in many religions around the world (Wikipedia).

Now I believe anyone putting the word "christian" in front of the word "sharman" and applying what a "Sharman" practices in meditation that leads to a trance to contact familiar Spirits while praying to the dead - MARY and the SAINTS does not make it any less witchcraft than Saul seeking out the familiar spirits from the Witch of Endore.
This is what Christian mysticism is all about. Nothing occult, nothing dangerous to the soul, nothing at odds with the bible. In fact, shamanism is not occult. An Osage legend says that the Creator told the Osage people: "I have not made these rivers and streams for nothing. I have made them so you will have a means to reach old age." The Psalms tell us that God will make rivers run across parched ground, and will bubble up springs in the desert. Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river, and walked across the water to show his disciples who he was. This is all deeply spiritual stuff with God at the center.
For the reasons outlined in this post. I disagree with your claims here. I believe as shown above and elsewhere that the so called "Christian mysticism" is not biblical and is simply re-branded "occult mysticism" which has it's origins pre-dating christianity from pagan religions practiced all over the world and has it's origins in WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked. It is a works based concept that seeks to reach God in a step by step process outside of the bible and the scriptures which is condemned by God in the scriptures. The only thing people reach here are the Spirits that are not of God or from the bible and is indeed dangerous to the salvation of anyone who practices it IMO.

Hope this helps
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I am sorry brother but you just don't get it. Where is "contemplative or experiential knowledge of God" (also known as mystical experience) condemned? Right the opposite - the scripture is often supporting this. For example:

When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance. (Acts 22:17)

Praying to God and seeing a vision is not mysticism which has it's origin in works based rites of the occult pre-dating christianity found in nearly every relgion of the world outside of christianity.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
And so we have this wonderful tradition of ancient practice within the Christian household of opening ourselves to experiential encounter with God.

The canonical texts give us glimpses of mysticism at work in the faith life of spiritual leaders. Adam and Eve had conversations with God, who “walked in the garden in the cool of the day.” God and Adam worked together, the Lord bringing animals to Adam to see what Adam would name them.

Abram and Sarai had experiential encounters with the Divine that were so profound, those experiences changed how they were known. Isaac also had experiential encounters with God, and so did his son Jacob. Jacob wrestled with a stranger at the ford of the Jabbok. That holy encounter marked Jacob for the rest of his life, so much so that the experience caused his name changed to Israel — “he who wrestles with God.”

Moses spoke to God in burning bush and on smoke-filled mountaintop. he also experienced God in the tabernacle while in the Sinai.

The Psalmist speaks of “meditating on God’s word day and night.” he speaks of God’s hand on him so heavy that he cannot breathe.

These are all times of deep, prayerful struggle — both with the Spirit of God and presumably with written Law. Isaiah saw God in a vision — also a widely-accepted mode of mysticism.

Jesus went apart, by himself, often, to speak with God. His mystical experience in Gethsemane cause him to sweat blood. In his experience, God came to rest on him following his baptism. And when he climbed Mount Tabor, he was transfigured — changed — by a direct experience with God.

Paul had a direct experience with Jesus on the road to Damascus that completely changed his religion.

These are all mystical experiences that people had with God. Over and over again, the Bible mentions these experiences — these times of deep prayer, contemplation and meditation. These experiences continue into the “post-biblical” period with the Desert Fathers and Mothers, and the ascetics.

There are those who insist that mysticism isn’t in the Bible, but, as we’ve seen from this short synopsis, it is. There are those who insist that we can only approach God through “God’s word.” Yet, the Bible tells us that there were many people who had direct Divine encounters. The Bible tell us that we encounter God, not only through our intellect and rational minds, but insists that we love God with all our heart, and mind, and soul, and strength. This apprehension of God is a heart thing — not only a head thing. We not only “read about God,” we can also know God immediately. Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” And so, on Pentecost, the gathered disciples all had a direct experience of God, who came and settled on them as tongues of fire. This isn’t something just “read about” and “understood.” It was something personally impactful that was known and felt in the heart.

Christian mysticism is an act of prayer — deep prayer. Paul tells us to “pray unceasingly.” So, even Paul, in the Bible, is telling us to enter the mystic life wherein all daily encounters are deep encounters, infused with the holy. Christian mysticism is coming to the awareness that God transcends time and place, and so, when we’re in deep prayer, the entire Christian household is available to us, because when we enter into God, we span time and space, too.

The word anamnesis in the Bible is translated as “remember.” Jesus used this word during the Last Supper. But it doesn’t mean “recalling a memory.” It means, “entering again into the act.” Every time we share Eucharist, we transcend time and place. So, in that way, it’s possible for us to interact with the great saints of the church, ask them to intercede for us. It doesn’t mean we’re “talking to dead people,” or “invoking familiar spirits.” It means that there’s a biblical concept of “sacred time” in which past, present, and future are all one when we are in deep prayer.

We are told that we must encounter God through the written word. But how are we to encounter God? What method? Is God to be encountered like a character in a storybook? Or are we intended to have a living encounter with a real God? I believe it’s to be the latter, and that mysticism is the vehicle by which God is encountered in holy text. Whenever we meditate on the word, we’re having a deep encounter with God, as God transcends the written page.

And, by the way, Christian mysticism predates the Roman Catholic Church. It was not adopted by the Church, but continued by the Church, from the same mystic practice of Jesus and his disciples.

Christian mysticism is a vehicle for engaging with God holistically — using our imaginations and our creativity, using our bodies — not just our minds. It’s a practice that brings us closer to God and allows us to grow in spiritual mettle.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Praying to God and seeing a vision is not mysticism which has it's origin in works based rites of the occult pre-dating christianity found in nearly every relgion of the world outside of christianity.
That’s precisely all Christian mysticism is: prayer and envisioning. That’s it.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
That’s precisely all Christian mysticism is: prayer and envisioning. That’s it.

Not according to the pioneers of this so called "christian mysticism" from the books of Evelyn Underhill (The Complete Christian Mystic: A Practical, Step-By-Step Guide for Awakening to the Presence of God;Practical Mysticism) or Simone Weil and others. This so called "christian mysticism" requires a step by step process that a person must do to reach God of the dead saints by practicing mystic rites which some of these books list as 1. awakening, 2. puration through making yourself holy, 3. illumination through meditation and prayer, 4. Dark night of the soul - withdrawal symtome of God and 5. Complete union - God's presence or the Spirits always with you)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
And so we have this wonderful tradition of ancient practice within the Christian household of opening ourselves to experiential encounter with God.

The canonical texts give us glimpses of mysticism at work in the faith life of spiritual leaders. Adam and Eve had conversations with God, who “walked in the garden in the cool of the day.” God and Adam worked together, the Lord bringing animals to Adam to see what Adam would name them.

Abram and Sarai had experiential encounters with the Divine that were so profound, those experiences changed how they were known. Isaac also had experiential encounters with God, and so did his son Jacob. Jacob wrestled with a stranger at the ford of the Jabbok. That holy encounter marked Jacob for the rest of his life, so much so that the experience caused his name changed to Israel — “he who wrestles with God.”

Moses spoke to God in burning bush and on smoke-filled mountaintop. he also experienced God in the tabernacle while in the Sinai.

The Psalmist speaks of “meditating on God’s word day and night.” he speaks of God’s hand on him so heavy that he cannot breathe.

These are all times of deep, prayerful struggle — both with the Spirit of God and presumably with written Law. Isaiah saw God in a vision — also a widely-accepted mode of mysticism.

Jesus went apart, by himself, often, to speak with God. His mystical experience in Gethsemane cause him to sweat blood. In his experience, God came to rest on him following his baptism. And when he climbed Mount Tabor, he was transfigured — changed — by a direct experience with God.

Paul had a direct experience with Jesus on the road to Damascus that completely changed his religion.

These are all mystical experiences that people had with God. Over and over again, the Bible mentions these experiences — these times of deep prayer, contemplation and meditation. These experiences continue into the “post-biblical” period with the Desert Fathers and Mothers, and the ascetics.

There are those who insist that mysticism isn’t in the Bible, but, as we’ve seen from this short synopsis, it is. There are those who insist that we can only approach God through “God’s word.” Yet, the Bible tells us that there were many people who had direct Divine encounters. The Bible tell us that we encounter God, not only through our intellect and rational minds, but insists that we love God with all our heart, and mind, and soul, and strength. This apprehension of God is a heart thing — not only a head thing. We not only “read about God,” we can also know God immediately. Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” And so, on Pentecost, the gathered disciples all had a direct experience of God, who came and settled on them as tongues of fire. This isn’t something just “read about” and “understood.” It was something personally impactful that was known and felt in the heart.

Christian mysticism is an act of prayer — deep prayer. Paul tells us to “pray unceasingly.” So, even Paul, in the Bible, is telling us to enter the mystic life wherein all daily encounters are deep encounters, infused with the holy. Christian mysticism is coming to the awareness that God transcends time and place, and so, when we’re in deep prayer, the entire Christian household is available to us, because when we enter into God, we span time and space, too.

The word anamnesis in the Bible is translated as “remember.” Jesus used this word during the Last Supper. But it doesn’t mean “recalling a memory.” It means, “entering again into the act.” Every time we share Eucharist, we transcend time and place. So, in that way, it’s possible for us to interact with the great saints of the church, ask them to intercede for us. It doesn’t mean we’re “talking to dead people,” or “invoking familiar spirits.” It means that there’s a biblical concept of “sacred time” in which past, present, and future are all one when we are in deep prayer.

We are told that we must encounter God through the written word. But how are we to encounter God? What method? Is God to be encountered like a character in a storybook? Or are we intended to have a living encounter with a real God? I believe it’s to be the latter, and that mysticism is the vehicle by which God is encountered in holy text. Whenever we meditate on the word, we’re having a deep encounter with God, as God transcends the written page.

And, by the way, Christian mysticism predates the Roman Catholic Church. It was not adopted by the Church, but continued by the Church, from the same mystic practice of Jesus and his disciples.

Christian mysticism is a vehicle for engaging with God holistically — using our imaginations and our creativity, using our bodies — not just our minds. It’s a practice that brings us closer to God and allows us to grow in spiritual mettle.

Having encounters with God does not require us to visit occult teachings in order to do so. The rest of your posts is only repitition and has already been addressed showing the origins of mysticism to the occult and other pagan religions around the world. "Christian mysticism" is not biblical and is simply re-branded "occult mysticism" which has it's origins pre-dating christianity from pagan religions practiced all over the world and has it's origins in WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked. It is a works based concept that seeks to reach God in a step by step process outside of the bible and the scriptures which is condemned by God in the scriptures. The only thing people reach here are the Spirits that are not of God or from the bible and is indeed dangerous to the salvation of anyone who practices it IMO. We do not have to go outside of God's Word to find God when it is only through the Word of God anyone can truly find God in my opinion.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
And so we have this wonderful tradition of ancient practice within the Christian household of opening ourselves to experiential encounter with God. The canonical texts give us glimpses of mysticism at work in the faith life of spiritual leaders. Adam and Eve had conversations with God, who “walked in the garden in the cool of the day.” God and Adam worked together, the Lord bringing animals to Adam to see what Adam would name them.
Nonsense. Where in the scriptures does it teach mysticism and God's people working themselves up into religious ectasies in hidden truth to reach altered stated of consciousness to seek communication of the Spirits or God?
Abram and Sarai had experiential encounters with the Divine that were so profound, those experiences changed how they were known. Isaac also had experiential encounters with God, and so did his son Jacob. Jacob wrestled with a stranger at the ford of the Jabbok. That holy encounter marked Jacob for the rest of his life, so much so that the experience caused his name changed to Israel — “he who wrestles with God.”
Prayer is not mysticism. "Christian mysticism" from the books of Evelyn Underhill (The Complete Christian Mystic: A Practical, Step-By-Step Guide for Awakening to the Presence of God;Practical Mysticism) or Simone Weil and others. This so called "christian mysticism" requires a step by step process that a person must do to reach God of the dead saints by practicing mystic rites which some of these books list as 1. awakening, 2. puration through making yourself holy, 3. illumination through meditation and prayer, 4. Dark night of the soul - withdrawal symtoms of God and 5. Complete union - God's presence or the Spirits always with you)
Moses spoke to God in burning bush and on smoke-filled mountaintop. he also experienced God in the tabernacle while in the Sinai
There was no prayer and no mysticism conducted in these scriptures. Encountering God is not mysticism and mysticism that has it's origin in the occult and pagan religions of the world pre-dating Christianity is not how we are to find God I believe according to the scriptures.
The Psalmist speaks of “meditating on God’s word day and night.” he speaks of God’s hand on him so heavy that he cannot breathe.
The Hebrew word used here for meditate is H1897 הגה; hâgâh it means to ponder, to study and understand the laws meaning and to speak about it. We are to do this with all of the scriptures as it is written "Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" *2 TIMOTHY 2:15. It has nothing to do with mysticism.
These are all times of deep, prayerful struggle — both with the Spirit of God and presumably with written Law. Isaiah saw God in a vision — also a widely-accepted mode of mysticism.
Dreams and visions from the prophets is not occult mysticism and do not have their origin in the teachings of the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity that have nothing to do with the teachings of the law and the prophets before JESUS.
Jesus went apart, by himself, often, to speak with God. His mystical experience in Gethsemane cause him to sweat blood. In his experience, God came to rest on him following his baptism. And when he climbed Mount Tabor, he was transfigured — changed — by a direct experience with God.
Goodness? Really? Jesus the son of God practiced the occult teachings of mysticism? I will not comment on this section. You do know that JESUS is God right? There is nothing in the scriptures saying he was practicing mysticism whatsoever.
Paul had a direct experience with Jesus on the road to Damascus that completely changed his religion.
Paul had a vision of JESUS and was not praying or practicing the occult teachings of mysticism
These are all mystical experiences that people had with God. Over and over again, the Bible mentions these experiences — these times of deep prayer, contemplation and meditation. These experiences continue into the “post-biblical” period with the Desert Fathers and Mothers, and the ascetics.
Nonsense. You have not provided a single scripture that teaches mysticism. A vision or a dream from God is not mysticism or does it have anything to do with the practices of mysticism.
There are those who insist that mysticism isn’t in the Bible, but, as we’ve seen from this short synopsis, it is. There are those who insist that we can only approach God through “God’s word.” Yet, the Bible tells us that there were many people who had direct Divine encounters. The Bible tell us that we encounter God, not only through our intellect and rational minds, but insists that we love God with all our heart, and mind, and soul, and strength. This apprehension of God is a heart thing — not only a head thing. We not only “read about God,” we can also know God immediately. Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” And so, on Pentecost, the gathered disciples all had a direct experience of God, who came and settled on them as tongues of fire. This isn’t something just “read about” and “understood.” It was something personally impactful that was known and felt in the heart.
Once again you have not provided a single example of mysticism in the bible. Having a direct divine encounter with God is not mysticism. It is simply that. It is a direct divine encounter with God and mysticism is not a requirement. Of course salvation has to be from the heart. This is the new covenant promise to all those who believe and follow God's Word *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Receiving God's Spirit does not come from mysticism which is based on the occult and from pagan religions outside of God's Word. Receiving God's Spirit according to the scriptures I believe only comes from believing and following God's Word.
Christian mysticism is an act of prayer — deep prayer. Paul tells us to “pray unceasingly.” So, even Paul, in the Bible, is telling us to enter the mystic life wherein all daily encounters are deep encounters, infused with the holy. Christian mysticism is coming to the awareness that God transcends time and place, and so, when we’re in deep prayer, the entire Christian household is available to us, because when we enter into God, we span time and space, too.
Deep prayer is not new age or Shamaic meditation or mysticism that has its origins on the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity.
The word anamnesis in the Bible is translated as “remember.” Jesus used this word during the Last Supper. But it doesn’t mean “recalling a memory.” It means, “entering again into the act.” Every time we share Eucharist, we transcend time and place. So, in that way, it’s possible for us to interact with the great saints of the church, ask them to intercede for us. It doesn’t mean we’re “talking to dead people,” or “invoking familiar spirits.” It means that there’s a biblical concept of “sacred time” in which past, present, and future are all one when we are in deep prayer.
Remembering the Word of God and doing what GOd asks us to do is not mysticism that has its origins on the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked and many other religions that pre-date Christianity.
We are told that we must encounter God through the written word. But how are we to encounter God? What method? Is God to be encountered like a character in a storybook? Or are we intended to have a living encounter with a real God? I believe it’s to be the latter, and that mysticism is the vehicle by which God is encountered in holy text. Whenever we meditate on the word, we’re having a deep encounter with God, as God transcends the written page.
The method is very simply we encounter God according to the scriptures by believing and following what God says and continuing in God's Word by believing and following what God's Word says *JOHN 8:31-32. According to the scriptures this is how we are to have a living encounter with God. No one according to the scriptures I believe is having a living encounter with God as they are not doing what God has asked them and are not believing what God says. This is I believe is shown in the scriptures *1 JOHN 2:3-4; MATTHEW 7:22-27; HEBREWS 10:26-29 and 1 JOHN 3:6-10. There is no other way according to the scripture to have an encounter outside of believing and following God's Word. Salvation is a gift of God that we receive by faith in believing and following God's Word *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We do not receive God outside of his Word by practicing the pagan and occult teachings of mysticism.
And, by the way, Christian mysticism predates the Roman Catholic Church. It was not adopted by the Church, but continued by the Church, from the same mystic practice of Jesus and his disciples.
JESUS did not practice mysticism. As already posted you would already see I have stated that mysticism has it's origins in many pagan religions world-wide outside of christianity and has its origin in the teachings of the WITCHCRAFT of SHAMANISM linked. Why someone would believe we have to use the occult teachings of mysticism to find God is beyond me when God promises we can only find him through believing and following his Word *Proverb 8:17; Jeremiah 29:13; John 3:15-21 and there is no other way to find God but through faith in his Word and seeking him through it. If anyone reads the bible for themselves they will see that this true. Mysticism is not of God and you will not find God through these occult in my opinion but another spirit that is not of God.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
In prayer we open ourselves out to god, and this process is one of liberation and awakening. this is how the 10th-century Byzantine mystic St. Simeon described it:
Imagine a man standing at night inside his house with all the doors closed: and then suppose that he opens a window just at the moment when there is a sudden flash of lightning. Unable to bear its brightness, at once he protects himself by closing his eyes and drawing back from the window. So it is with the soul that is enclosed in the realm of the senses: if ever she peeps out through the window of the mind, she is overwhelmed by the brightness, like lightning, of the pledge of the Holy. Spirit that is within her. Unable to bear the splendor of unveiled light, at once she is bewildered in her mind, and she draws back entirely upon herself, taking refuge as in a house, among sensory and human things.

So god breaks out like light breaking forth at morning (Isa 58:8), and the human experience of God has often been described as an awakening, a heightening of consciousness and perception. We move from darkness to light, from shadows to reality. To know God is to know one’s own true Self, the ground of one’s being. — True Prayer: An Invitation to Christian Spirituality, Kenneth Leech

This is a great explanation of Christian mysticism, free from unsubstantiated accusations of witchcraft.

This observation by Thomas Merton is also enlightening and reveals the true nature of Christian mysticism:

“At the center of our being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin and by illusion, a point of pure truth, a point or spark which belongs entirely to Gods which is never at our disposal, from which God disposes of our lives, which is inaccessible to the fantasies of our own mind or the brutalities of our own will. This little point of nothingness and of absolute poverty is the pure glory of God in us. It is, so to speak his name written in us, as our poverty, as our indigence, as our dependence, as our sonship. it is like a pure diamond, blazing with the invisible light of heaven. it is in everybody, and if we could see it we would see these billions of points of light coming together in the dance and blaze of the sun that would make all the darkness and cruelty of life vanish completely. i have no program for this seeing. it is only given. But the gate of heaven is everywhere.”

St. Francis is quoted as saying: “Wherever we are or wherever we are going, we have our cell with us. For Brother body is the cell, and the soul is the hermit who dwells in it, meditating and praying to God. Therefore, if the soul does not preserve quiet and solitude in its own cell, of what profit is a cell made of hands?”

Murray Bodo recounts this enlightenment: “I lit a candle before the pictures of my mother and father that I keep on my desk. I said a brief prayer, I spent a few minutes in silence. Out of this small ritual came these words, ‘What is the place within where I can listen, find my soul, meet God?’ I became aware of my own evasion, my own borrowings and lack of authenticity. i realized how much trust I put in false securities. i knew I had to refind my own sacred space within. That is what ritual, prayer and silence do. They center us and move us beyond the vacuous thoughts that rattle noisily in our heads. They summon us to take responsibility for our own lives. They move us from heard to heart.”

What a great explanation of the tools, purpose, and benefits of mysticism!

Here is more: “We go in a rather cerebral search for God and the self; we are determined to listen and understand. Then, in entering the silence, something unanticipated happens: we find our heart of hearts, and it has its own agenda.”

That “heart of hearts” is the heartbeat of God that has been within us since the beginning of creation.

Bodo continues: “To live out the words of Jesus is to live in faith, for they can only be lived in faith. And so we are back to the original problem. God speaks to the ancients, God speaks through the prophets, and ultimately in and through Jesus — all historical figures no longer walking among us — and we believe because of the words others have left us of what these graced souls said and did. Is that all we’re left with? Or does God in fact speak to the modern soul, as well? Can I find a place of hearing where God speaks to me?

The wisdom of the ages says there is such a place, and it is within. What is more, if we enter there, God will ‘open our deafness,’ as Augustine says so beautifully. The speaking is God’s, the entering into the place of hearing is ours.

How is it, then, that I enter there? One way is to enter by means of a word. ‘Jesus,’ repeated over and over again, the word itself becoming more internal as my recitation moves from a whisper to an inner echo. In that word is everything I know and desire... another way in is simply through silence and the desire for God to be revealed.”

(From Landscape of Prayer)

These are techniques of Christian mysticism — no hocus-pocus, just ways of going to meet God. This is beautiful stuff, and not the stuff of new age woo-woo.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
FALSE TEACHINGS OF "CHRISTIAN MYSTICISM"

Some Christians might have great difficulty accepting the assessment that what is termed christian mysticism is, in truth, not Christian at all. They might feel this rejection is spawned by a heresy hunting mentality that completely ignores the love and devotion to God that also accompanies the mystical life. To those who are still skeptical, I suggest examining the writings of Philip St. Romain, who wrote a book about his journey into contemplative prayer called Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. This title is revealing because kundalini is a Hindu term for the mystical power or force that underlies Hindu spirituality. In Hinduism it is commonly referred to as the serpent power.

St. Romain, a substance abuse counselor and devout Catholic lay minister, began his journey while practicing contemplative prayer or resting in the still point, as he called it. What happened to him following this practice should bear the utmost scrutiny from the evangelical community–especially from its leadership. The future course of evangelical Christianity rests on whether St. Romain’s path is just a fluke or if it is the norm for contemplative spirituality.

Having rejected mental prayer as “unproductive,” he embraced the prayer form that switches off the mind, creating what he described as a mental passivity. What he encountered next underscores my concern with sobering clarity:

Then came the lights! The gold swirls that I had noted on occasion began to intensify, forming themselves into patterns that both intrigued and captivated me … There were always four or five of these; as soon as one would fade, another would appear, even brighter and more intense … They came through complete passivity and only after I had been in the silence for a while. (emphasis mine)

After this, St. Romain began to sense “wise sayings” coming into his mind and felt he was “receiving messages from another.”3 He also had physical developments occur during his periods in the silence. He would feel “prickly sensations” on the top of his head and at times it would “fizzle with energy.”* This sensation would go on for days. The culmination of St. Romain’s mystical excursion was predictable–when you do Christian yoga or Christian Zen you end up with Christian samadhi as did he. He proclaimed:

No longer is there any sense of alienation, for the Ground that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation. It seems that the mystics of all the world’s religions know something of this.

St. Romain, logically, passed on to the next stage with:

[T]he significance of this work, perhaps, lies in its potential to contribute to the dialogue between Christianity and Eastern forms of mysticism such as are promoted in what is called New Age spirituality.

Many people believe St. Romain is a devout Christian. He claims he loves Jesus, believes in salvation, and is a member in good standing within his church. What changed though were his sensibilities. He says:

I cannot make any decisions for myself without the approbation of the inner adviser, whose voice speaks so clearly in times of need … there is a distinct sense of an inner eye of some kind “seeing” with my two sense eyes.

St. Romain would probably be astounded that somebody would question his claims to finding truth because of the positive nature of his mysticism. But is this “inner adviser” St. Romain has connected with really God? This is a fair question to ask especially when this prayer method has now spread within a broad spectrum of Christianity.

As articulated earlier in this chapter, this practice has already spread extensively throughout the Roman Catholic and Protestant mainline churches. And it has now crossed over and is manifesting itself in conservative denominations as well–ones that have traditionally stood against the New Age. Just as a tidal wave of practical mystics has hit secular society, so it has also in the religious world. St. Romain makes one observation in his book that I take very seriously. Like his secular practical mystic brethren, he has a strong sense of mission and destiny. He predicts:

Could it be that those who make the journey to the True Self are, in some ways, demonstrating what lies in store for the entire race? What a magnificent world that would be—for the majority of people to be living out of the True Self state. Such a world cannot come, however, unless hundreds of thousands of people experience the regression of the Ego in the service of transcendence [meditation], and then restructure the culture to accommodate similar growth for millions of others. I believe we are only now beginning to recognize this task.

A book titled Metaphysical Primer: A Guide to Understanding Metaphysics outlines the basic laws and principles of the New Age movement. First and foremost is the following principle:

You are one with the Deity, as is all of humanity … Everything is one with everything else. All that is on Earth is an expression of the One Deity and is permeated with Its energies.

St. Romain’s statement was, “[T]he Ground [God] that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation.”10 The two views are identical!

St. Romain came to this view through standard contemplative prayer, not Zen, not yoga but a Christian form of these practices. The lights were also a reoccurring phenomenon as one contemplative author suggested:

Christian literature makes reference to many episodes that parallel the experiences of those going a yogic way. Saint Anthony, one of the first desert mystics, frequently encountered strange and sometimes terrifying psychophysical forces while at prayer.

Unfortunately, this experience was not confined to St. Anthony alone. This has been the common progression into mystical awareness throughout the centuries, which also means many now entering the contemplative path will follow suit. This is not just empty conjecture. One mystical trainer wrote:

[T]he classical experience of enlightenment as described by Buddhist monks, Hindu gurus, Christian mystics, Aboriginal shamans, Sufi sheiks and Hebrew kabalists is characterized by two universal elements: radiant light and an experience of oneness with creation. (emphasis mine)

Without the mystical connection there can be no oneness. The second always follows the first. Here lies the heart of occultism.

This issue is clearly a serious one to contend with. Many individuals, using terms for themselves like spiritual director, are showing up more and more in the evangelical church. Many of them teach the message of mystical prayer. (for more by Ray Yungen on contemplative prayer and New Age mysticism, read A Time of Departing; Lighthouse trial project)
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
FALSE TEACHINGS OF "CHRISTIAN MYSTICISM"

Some Christians might have great difficulty accepting the assessment that what is termed christian mysticism is, in truth, not Christian at all. They might feel this rejection is spawned by a heresy hunting mentality that completely ignores the love and devotion to God that also accompanies the mystical life. To those who are still skeptical, I suggest examining the writings of Philip St. Romain, who wrote a book about his journey into contemplative prayer called Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. This title is revealing because kundalini is a Hindu term for the mystical power or force that underlies Hindu spirituality. In Hinduism it is commonly referred to as the serpent power.

St. Romain, a substance abuse counselor and devout Catholic lay minister, began his journey while practicing contemplative prayer or resting in the still point, as he called it. What happened to him following this practice should bear the utmost scrutiny from the evangelical community–especially from its leadership. The future course of evangelical Christianity rests on whether St. Romain’s path is just a fluke or if it is the norm for contemplative spirituality.

Having rejected mental prayer as “unproductive,” he embraced the prayer form that switches off the mind, creating what he described as a mental passivity. What he encountered next underscores my concern with sobering clarity:

Then came the lights! The gold swirls that I had noted on occasion began to intensify, forming themselves into patterns that both intrigued and captivated me … There were always four or five of these; as soon as one would fade, another would appear, even brighter and more intense … They came through complete passivity and only after I had been in the silence for a while. (emphasis mine)

After this, St. Romain began to sense “wise sayings” coming into his mind and felt he was “receiving messages from another.”3 He also had physical developments occur during his periods in the silence. He would feel “prickly sensations” on the top of his head and at times it would “fizzle with energy.”* This sensation would go on for days. The culmination of St. Romain’s mystical excursion was predictable–when you do Christian yoga or Christian Zen you end up with Christian samadhi as did he. He proclaimed:

No longer is there any sense of alienation, for the Ground that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation. It seems that the mystics of all the world’s religions know something of this.

St. Romain, logically, passed on to the next stage with:

[T]he significance of this work, perhaps, lies in its potential to contribute to the dialogue between Christianity and Eastern forms of mysticism such as are promoted in what is called New Age spirituality.

Many people believe St. Romain is a devout Christian. He claims he loves Jesus, believes in salvation, and is a member in good standing within his church. What changed though were his sensibilities. He says:

I cannot make any decisions for myself without the approbation of the inner adviser, whose voice speaks so clearly in times of need … there is a distinct sense of an inner eye of some kind “seeing” with my two sense eyes.

St. Romain would probably be astounded that somebody would question his claims to finding truth because of the positive nature of his mysticism. But is this “inner adviser” St. Romain has connected with really God? This is a fair question to ask especially when this prayer method has now spread within a broad spectrum of Christianity.

As articulated earlier in this chapter, this practice has already spread extensively throughout the Roman Catholic and Protestant mainline churches. And it has now crossed over and is manifesting itself in conservative denominations as well–ones that have traditionally stood against the New Age. Just as a tidal wave of practical mystics has hit secular society, so it has also in the religious world. St. Romain makes one observation in his book that I take very seriously. Like his secular practical mystic brethren, he has a strong sense of mission and destiny. He predicts:

Could it be that those who make the journey to the True Self are, in some ways, demonstrating what lies in store for the entire race? What a magnificent world that would be—for the majority of people to be living out of the True Self state. Such a world cannot come, however, unless hundreds of thousands of people experience the regression of the Ego in the service of transcendence [meditation], and then restructure the culture to accommodate similar growth for millions of others. I believe we are only now beginning to recognize this task.

A book titled Metaphysical Primer: A Guide to Understanding Metaphysics outlines the basic laws and principles of the New Age movement. First and foremost is the following principle:

You are one with the Deity, as is all of humanity … Everything is one with everything else. All that is on Earth is an expression of the One Deity and is permeated with Its energies.

St. Romain’s statement was, “[T]he Ground [God] that flows throughout my being is identical with the Reality of all creation.”10 The two views are identical!

St. Romain came to this view through standard contemplative prayer, not Zen, not yoga but a Christian form of these practices. The lights were also a reoccurring phenomenon as one contemplative author suggested:

Christian literature makes reference to many episodes that parallel the experiences of those going a yogic way. Saint Anthony, one of the first desert mystics, frequently encountered strange and sometimes terrifying psychophysical forces while at prayer.

Unfortunately, this experience was not confined to St. Anthony alone. This has been the common progression into mystical awareness throughout the centuries, which also means many now entering the contemplative path will follow suit. This is not just empty conjecture. One mystical trainer wrote:

[T]he classical experience of enlightenment as described by Buddhist monks, Hindu gurus, Christian mystics, Aboriginal shamans, Sufi sheiks and Hebrew kabalists is characterized by two universal elements: radiant light and an experience of oneness with creation. (emphasis mine)

Without the mystical connection there can be no oneness. The second always follows the first. Here lies the heart of occultism.

This issue is clearly a serious one to contend with. Many individuals, using terms for themselves like spiritual director, are showing up more and more in the evangelical church. Many of them teach the message of mystical prayer. (for more by Ray Yungen on contemplative prayer and New Age mysticism, read A Time of Departing; Lighthouse trial project)

Are you against a believer getting alone with God and the Bible and interacting with Him? Enjoying not just the words written in a Book, but enjoying Him, the Person of God? Jesus Christ?

Is your prayer time with God one sided? Meaning, just you doing the talking?

Just because one prays to a false god, doesn't mean when the Christian prays he is doing the same. Just because the Hindu meditates, doesn't mean Christian meditation is to the Hindu god.

We as Christians are supernatural beings created by the Spirit of God. Our ties to Him are spiritual. To cultivate that spiritual life is all that Christian mysticism is. Experiencing the spiritual relationship with our God and Jesus Christ.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 
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