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Why do church scandals bother us so much?

9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm sorry, but people in churches are just people. You are going to find the same proportions inside the church as outside. Don't kid yourself.

I encourage you to go back and read the OP.
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What does this say about those churches, though? If a religion can't instill good behaviour in its adherents, what use is it?

And in some cases, this could be a sign that the religion is flat-out wrong.

For instance, many Christian churches preach that once a believer accepts the Holy Spirit, the fact that they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in themselves will be expressed in their actions. If these Christians don't behave any better than some random non-Christian off the street, then this is a sign that they aren't actually saved or, potentially, that their whole religion is a lie.
 
pleinmont

pleinmont

New Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
What does this say about those churches, though? If a religion can't instill good behaviour in its adherents, what use is it?

And in some cases, this could be a sign that the religion is flat-out wrong.

For instance, many Christian churches preach that once a believer accepts the Holy Spirit, the fact that they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in themselves will be expressed in their actions. If these Christians don't behave any better than some random non-Christian off the street, then this is a sign that they aren't actually saved or, potentially, that their whole religion is a lie.
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In my experience of so called 'spirit filled' Christians, their behaviour is often worse than those who make no such claims.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I have no idea what to do with this.

I suppose a doctor's own health has no bearing on whether he knows the material he studied in school really well.

It may have a bearing on whether that material was correct, assuming that he practices what that material upholds as "healthy" habits and whatever his health issues are were brought on by behavior.
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That's right. A doctor can have heart disease and still have the expertise to practice medicine.

In the same way, a religious person can be a sinner, and still be able to share things worth learning from them. If they are well studied in their faith, they may indeed have a great deal to say regarding what is right and what is wrong, despite their personal failure.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
9-10ths_Penguin said:
What does this say about those churches, though? If a religion can't instill good behaviour in its adherents, what use is it?

And in some cases, this could be a sign that the religion is flat-out wrong.

For instance, many Christian churches preach that once a believer accepts the Holy Spirit, the fact that they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in themselves will be expressed in their actions. If these Christians don't behave any better than some random non-Christian off the street, then this is a sign that they aren't actually saved or, potentially, that their whole religion is a lie.
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Yes, I realize that many Christians are deluded in this regard. I'm not saying though, that there aren't Christians who haven't had authentic life changing experiences. Like I said in my OP, all the tools for bettering one's self are there in religion -- IF a person chooses to use them. There will always be the minority of those who truly do rise to a level above the rest, who preach with their actions.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
pleinmont said:
I have met many who were nice people before they got religion, but highly unpleasant afterwards, like a relative of mine.
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I'm so very sorry to hear that. My experience is just so very different. I wonder why that is. My whole life, my experience with religion has been nothing but positive, except for the occasional superstitious looney toon fanatic. I hope someday that your relative will grow and change. Certainly his religion encourages the virtues of patience, hospitality, humility, and love, I'm sure.
 
pleinmont

pleinmont

New Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm so very sorry to hear that. My experience is just so very different. I wonder why that is. My whole life, my experience with religion has been nothing but positive, except for the occasional superstitious looney toon fanatic. I hope someday that your relative will grow and change. Certainly his religion encourages the virtues of patience, hospitality, humility, and love, I'm sure.
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The relative is dead. Religion never did me any favours at all, it was a relief when I lost my faith.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
That's right. A doctor can have heart disease and still have the expertise to practice medicine.
Click to expand...
... because a doctor's own health history is a sample size of one, but if his advice is valid, then people who follow it should have better health outcomes than those who don't, on average.

In the same way, a religious person can be a sinner, and still be able to share things worth learning from them. If they are well studied in their faith, they may indeed have a great deal to say regarding what is right and what is wrong, despite their personal failure.
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... again: because an individual is a sample size of one. If the religion's teachings have value and effect, then there should be some measurable difference between the people who follow them and the people who don't, on average.

We should never expect, say, embezzlement by church treasurers to completely disappear, but we should expect that embezzlement by church treasurers would happen less often than embezzlement by treasurers of secular organizations, all else being equal.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm sorry, but people in churches are just people. You are going to find the same proportions inside the church as outside. Don't kid yourself.

I encourage you to go back and read the OP.
Click to expand...

Since people are people then people will expect better from religious leaders since that's what people do. It works both ways, doesn't it ?
 
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