Who Is Hiding God From Us? (Is it god, or is it us?)

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

God hides nothing. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? Perhaps it's all a test of intelligence.

WE are Spiritual beings in our true nature. On the other hand, there is so much sensory input from this physical world that many are seduced into thinking this is all there is.

Perhaps it comes down to having a narrow view of things that blinds people. Perhaps it's the fact that everybody wants to rule the world. People tend to see what they want to see. People are also controlling and manipulative. So many want to control everyone's view. Yes, there are many issues and variables in mankind's scenario.

From God's point of view, God does not want to intimidate our choices. Free choice is a crucial part of learning. Next, I think most would just be confused with an encounter with God. God has great intellect working on multiple levels and multiple views, couple that with most people's little understanding of things and the results would just lead most away from the true issue at hand, which is learning and growing. On the other hand, the time will come for everyone to go to God and this will be nothing to be feared since you already know God. God is Unconditional Love.

Well, that's what I am seeing.

Sunstone said:

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

I think that part of what is hiding God from people is everything that they think they know, from scriptures and/or from science.

I’m thinking now that to find God, people need to ignore all the beliefs associated with all the religions, and what they think they know from science, and immerse themselves in the stories and in the community life of people who are following the light in them. Some people, possibly most people, might do better with a teacher.

I am of the opinion the only god that exists is in the mind of believers.

Sunstone said:

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

I don't see any other option than God hiding from us. Whether our brain works one way or another, should make little difference in regards to this, I think.

You haven't explained what this God is capable of, so will assume that this is a creator God with infinite power. If that God wanted us to see him, couldn't he have created the brain differently? or "force" us to see him? But if he chooses not to, then he must be hiding from us and not the other way around.

God is not hiding from us.

We just aren't able to see God. Basically, we have natural filters where we see this world in parts, like strands. But if we stepped back, we would see a web.

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

"Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."

Long story short..... because it did no good initially to NOT hide himself -except to lay a groundwork with a few who would listen.
Many think that if they knew God was real, they would think and act differently -but they still would not KNOW God -and it usually ended with people rejecting God.
So... God decided to reason with them in an absentee fashion, for the most part -by allowing them experience. He has always been active in bringing humanity to the end declared from the beginning, but has been less directly present and vocal and obvious. Most thought they did not need or want God -but experience will change their minds -and will be a reference for knowing God.
By being somewhat absent, he is like a bunch of missing puzzle pieces -and we will eventually see that he is correct, needed, has our best interest at heart, etc. -especially when he is no longer so absent and corrects everything we messed up. We now essentially see a reality with a hole in it -in the shape of God -whose knowledge, ability and government can answer all our problems.

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Samantha Rinne said:

God is not hiding from us.

We just aren't able to see God. Basically, we have natural filters where we see this world in parts, like strands. But if we stepped back, we would see a web.

Click to expand...

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." (or... things which are seen are made of things which are not seen)

Sunstone said:

Please Note: For the sake of discussion, please assume god exists. If assuming god exists for the sake of discussion creates in you an existential crisis of vast and insurmountable proportions such that you just cannot do it, please feel free to start your own thread, rather than take this one off-topic (in violation of the Forum rules). Thank you.

If god exists, then why does god hide from us?

Click to expand...

It's a question based on a false assumption - the assumption that we could detect God's existence if God existed.

There is an old children's story related to this. One day an old fish was swimming in the sea, and as he swam he came upon a couple of young fish exuberantly chasing each other around and around and up and down, as young fish will sometimes do. Seeing this made the old fish smile and his heart joyful, so as he swam by he spoke to the two young fish; "Hiya fellas, how's the water, today?" he said, expecting exclamations like "great!", and "wonderful!", and so on. But the two young fish stopped playing and just looked at the old fish in confusion. And then finally the two young fish asked him; "Water? What's water?"

If "God" is omnipresent, as is the common presumption, then the question you are asking becomes illogical. God wouldn't be "hiding", we simply would not be able to differentiate God's presence from any sort of background of God's non-presence. For there to be a "here", to we humans, there needs to be an elsewhere, or a "not here" for us to identify the here-ness, against. But we don't have that with an omnipresent God.

Sunstone said:

Now in this thread, I propose that it is possible god is not hiding from us, but instead we are hiding god. In either case, god is hidden, but in the former case there is not much chance of our discovering god -- because, after all, a god might be presumed to be impossible to discover should a god want to hide -- but in the latter case, if it is we who are hiding god, then it might be presumed we can quit hiding god, assuming we know how to quit.

Click to expand...

I think maybe you're over-thinking this (as in the other thread). But ...

Sunstone said:

Yet if we are hiding god from us, then precisely how are we doing it? The short answer is, we might be hiding god from us by means of the very nature of our consciousness.

Now, the longer answer involves these points.

We need to grasp that consciousness is not a mirror of reality in which we see the world just exactly as it is, as many people naively suppose, but is instead a distorting lens through which we peer at the world to see -- not the world exactly as it is -- but rather world as it appears to us after being distorted by the lens of consciousness.

The lens of consciousness distorts the world in several ways, but among those ways might be this one: It might separate the world (or reality) into separate, discrete things. e.g. My consciousness "says" that the tree in my yard is distinct from the dog in my yard when in reality it might be the case that the tree and the dog are in some mysterious way One Thing.

After all, there is a region of the brain that we know from neuroscientific studies is responsible for dividing our raw perception of the world as one thing into our refined perception of the world as separate things. But who is to say that the former perception is not the truer perception, and that the latter perception is not an illusion?

Now, since oneness is -- according to some people -- a trait of god, it follows that if those folks are right, then it is consciousness's separation of the world into different things that is responsible for hiding god.
​

To sum, maybe god does not hide from us, but instead, we ourselves hide god from us.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I myself am uncertain whether god exists or whether the world is one.

Comments? Questions?

Click to expand...

I don't think we're "hiding God from ourselves". I think we simply do not have the ability to recognize an omnipresent form of existence. Our brains require contrast to identify 'this' from 'that', and with God there is no 'that'. So we can't recognize the 'this'.

Sunstone said:

If god exists, then why does god hide from us? That is a question many people from many different religious traditions (or no tradition at all) are familiar with. It is a fair question to ask, and there are at least several different ways of answering it.

Click to expand...

I am on the run right now so I will answer this with a Bible verse I like.
God hides because He wants us to go looking for Him....

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Trailblazer said:

I am on the run right now so I will answer this with a Bible verse I like.
God hides because He wants us to go looking for Him....

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Click to expand...

On the run?

Samantha Rinne said:

On the run?

Click to expand...

Yeah, it was late and I had to get to bed so I could get up at 4:30 am to go to work.