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In order to avoid anyone going to hell why couldn't God just do this?

J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Assuming hell exists, in order to avoid the possibility of anyone going there to begin with, why couldn't God just do this?:

God being completely self sufficient and lacking nothing should have no needs or wants whatsoever. Therefore He shouldn't have even wanted to create humans since He would have had all his needs and wants met before creating them. Therefore, He had no good reason for creating humans since they add nothing of value to His life and actually having them around would increase the suffering in the cosmos through people going to hell and even make God Himself sad. Add to that, the fact that God doesn't owe humans their existence, then the most logical thing for God to have done would have been nothing, and would have been to not create humans in the first place thus sparing everyone a boatload of trouble. Hell is completely unnecessary given the options God had.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Jos said:
Assuming hell exists, in order to avoid the possibility of anyone going there to begin with, why couldn't God just do this?:

God being completely self sufficient and lacking nothing should have no needs or wants whatsoever. Therefore He shouldn't have even wanted to create humans since He would have had all his needs and wants met before creating them. Therefore, He had no good reason for creating humans since they add nothing of value to His life and actually having them around would increase the suffering in the cosmos through people going to hell and even make God Himself sad. Add to that, the fact that God doesn't owe humans their existence, then the most logical thing for God to have done would have been nothing, and would have been to not create humans in the first place thus sparing everyone a boatload of trouble. Hell is completely unnecessary given the options God had.
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You make the mistake in thinking god lacks nothing. Incredible as it may seem god lacks praise, love, and worship from lower, physical, sentient life forms. And to persuade them to comply he has to scare them into it, hence the threat of hell.

Now why god needs praise, love, and worship from lower, physical, sentient life forms is anyone's guess---he doesn't say--- but my guess is that his mother withheld it from him in his formative years. We humans function like a child's comforting teddy bear.

.
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
You make the mistake in thinking god lacks nothing. Incredible as it may seem god lacks praise, love, and worship from lower, physical, sentient life forms. And to persuade them to comply he has to scare them into it, hence the threat of hell.

Now why god needs praise, love, and worship from lower, physical, sentient life forms is anyone's guess---he doesn't say--- but my guess is that his mother withheld it from him in his formative years. We humans function like a child's comforting teddy bear.

.
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Lol funny but I was just going by the definition that classical theists use since they usually tend to define God as a complete being who lacks nothing and in my estimation, if He lacks nothing then He shouldn't even want anything including wanting to create humans and if He never created humans obviously no one would go to hell, so IDK.
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Jos said:
Why would a God want those things or anything at all if He's totally complete within Himself to begin with and already has everything?
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Why ask why? I don't presume to know what God wants. I just live on this planet and just trying to survive.
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Epic Beard Man said:
Why ask why? I don't presume to know what God wants. I just live on this planet and just trying to survive.
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Oh, I thought you were one of those other theists who claimed to know stuff about God sorry but can you explain the meaning of your previous post... the one about the qualities not necessarily necessitating God's being? I didn't understand that.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Jos said:
Assuming hell exists, in order to avoid the possibility of anyone going there to begin with, why couldn't God just do this?:

God being completely self sufficient and lacking nothing should have no needs or wants whatsoever. Therefore He shouldn't have even wanted to create humans since He would have had all his needs and wants met before creating them. Therefore, He had no good reason for creating humans since they add nothing of value to His life and actually having them around would increase the suffering in the cosmos through people going to hell and even make God Himself sad. Add to that, the fact that God doesn't owe humans their existence, then the most logical thing for God to have done would have been nothing, and would have been to not create humans in the first place thus sparing everyone a boatload of trouble. Hell is completely unnecessary given the options God had.
Click to expand...

Why should He follow your line of thinking?

Love needs an someone to give to. (Simple and logical)
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Jos said:
Assuming hell exists, in order to avoid the possibility of anyone going there to begin with, why couldn't God just do this?:

God being completely self sufficient and lacking nothing should have no needs or wants whatsoever. Therefore He shouldn't have even wanted to create humans since He would have had all his needs and wants met before creating them. Therefore, He had no good reason for creating humans since they add nothing of value to His life and actually having them around would increase the suffering in the cosmos through people going to hell and even make God Himself sad. Add to that, the fact that God doesn't owe humans their existence, then the most logical thing for God to have done would have been nothing, and would have been to not create humans in the first place thus sparing everyone a boatload of trouble. Hell is completely unnecessary given the options God had.
Click to expand...

Which god?
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Darkforbid said:
Like different theological views of God, make different God's
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Yes, there have been thousands of different gods worshiped over time, more the 3/4 of them being creator gods. That does not include rhe hundreds of millions of different Hindu gods.

Your opinion of god is nor the rest of the worlds opinion
 
Darkforbid

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
Yes, there have been thousands of different gods worshiped over time, more the 3/4 of them being creator gods. That does not include rhe hundreds of millions of different Hindu gods.

Your opinion of god is nor the rest of the worlds opinion
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And they're still just different theological views of God
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Darkforbid said:
Obviously some theological views have many God's or aspects of God others belive God is single concept
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So not just different theological views.
And some believe gods are a figment if the imagination?

It is my view that there are as many gods as people can imagine
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Jos said:
Oh, I thought you were one of those other theists who claimed to know stuff about God
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How did you deduce this from my writing in this thread?

Jos said:
sorry but can you explain the meaning of your previous post... the one about the qualities not necessarily necessitating God's being?
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Because @Skwim made the claim:

Skwim said:
Incredible as it may seem god lacks praise, love, and worship from lower, physical, sentient life forms.
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The dialectical claim of God lacking, is in direct violation of our understanding God's qualities such as "Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient." Because God is omnipotent, he lacks nothing of the sort, nor is God dependent upon my worship.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Jos said:
Assuming hell exists
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Reductio ad absurdum.
Or in other words, when you make an assumption and find that you run into a contradiction, you just proved your assumption wrong. (Or in this case the combination of assumption, i.e. that hell exists, that god exists and that it has the properties you assigned to it.)
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
KenS said:
Why should He follow your line of thinking?
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If you believe that God is completely self sufficient then how is it even possible that He had any desire to create humans? If He was completely self sufficient then He shouldn't want or need anything.

KenS said:
Love needs an someone to give to. (Simple and logical)
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If God is a Trinity wasn't He already giving love and even if He was by Himself He still shouldn't want to give to love to anyone since He's completely self sufficient.
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
Darkforbid said:
Exactly the same as saying people shouldn't have children just in case they do something bad
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God shouldn't have even wanted to create humans if He had everything He could ever want or need before creating them and given the horribleness of Hell it doesn't make any sense why this whole thing wasn't avoided altogether.
 
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