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Contradiction: How old was Ahaziah?

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Here is another "Contradiction" by the Atheist:

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26).
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

Answer:
I learned that the Hebrew numbers was written in Hebrew numerals, similar as would Roman numbers be written by I, X, V, L, M etc.
In Hebrew the number 22 is “KAF+BEIT” and 42 is “MEM+BEIT”.
If I have it correct, this is how it will appear. ב+נ and מ+נ.
Now, anyone that would like to call this a contradiction should first take the following into consideration.
The books of Chronicles were written on either Papyri or parchment and the ink was hand mixed. Both the ink and writing materials was highly degradable and taken into account that these passages were written between 930 BC and 440 BC, it passed through many scribes and copyists to what leftover manuscripts we have today.
Conclusion.
The possibility that one manuscript in a lineage of hundreds had some damage, or the ink smudged is almost certain, no, not “almost”, but certainly to have occurred. Look at what an insignificant change in the Hebrew of say, Ezra, or Nechemia’s time could have resulted in writing a MEM in stead of a KAF.
Most manuscripts of the Septuagint have the number twenty, and one has twenty-two. Twenty-two is also reflected in the Syriac and the Arabic versions.
Therefore, to have a lineage of at least 200 consecutive copying, with such an insignificant error is actually incredible to say the least. Think of this, the copying of the Bible was done for at least 2400 years, and the copyists who re wrote this incorrect number had such a lot of respect for the Bible, they did not even attempt to change this small fact of their history. Now that’s what I call inherent honesty.
Another surprise hit the Atheists in 1935 when the Tel Dan stelae was discovered at Lachish and on it we have Hazael bosting he killed both Jehoram and his son Ahaziah.
Damn but the Bible is trustworthy!
For the record, Ahazia was 22.
 
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PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Here is another "Contradiction" by the Atheist:

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26).
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

Answer:
I learned that the Hebrew numbers was written in Hebrew numerals, similar as would Roman numbers be written by I, X, V, L, M etc.
In Hebrew the number 22 is “KAF+BEIT” and 42 is “MEM+BEIT”.
If I have it correct, this is how it will appear. ב+נ and מ+נ.
Now, anyone that would like to call this a contradiction should first take the following into consideration.
The books of Chronicles were written on either Papyri or parchment and the ink was hand mixed. Both the ink and writing materials was highly degradable and taken into account that these passages were written between 930 BC and 440 BC, it passed through many scribes and copyists to what leftover manuscripts we have today.
Conclusion.
The possibility that one manuscript in a lineage of hundreds had some damage, or the ink smudged is almost certain, no, not “almost”, but certainly to have occurred. Look at what an insignificant change in the Hebrew of say, Ezra, or Nechemia’s time could have resulted in writing a MEM in stead of a KAF.
Most manuscripts of the Septuagint have the number twenty, and one has twenty-two. Twenty-two is also reflected in the Syriac and the Arabic versions.
Therefore, to have a lineage of at least 200 consecutive copying, with such an insignificant error is actually incredible to say the least. Think of this, the copying of the Bible was done for at least 2400 years, and the copyists who re wrote this incorrect number had such a lot of respect for the Bible, they did not even attempt to change this small fact of their history. Now that’s what I call inherent honesty.
Another surprise hit the Atheists in 1935 when the Tel Dan stelae was discovered at Lachish and on it we have Hazael bosting he killed both Jehoram and his son Ahaziah.
Damn but the Bible is trustworthy!
For the record, Ahazia was 22.

Ever heard of "God of the Gaps" ?
I call this "Skeptics of the Gaps"
bit by bit archaeologists are filling in the missing details of the Bronze Age cultures
of Abraham's day, and the details of the Levant during King David's time.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Ever heard of "God of the Gaps" ?
I call this "Skeptics of the Gaps"
bit by bit archaeologists are filling in the missing details of the Bronze Age cultures
of Abraham's day, and the details of the Levant during King David's time.
God of the Gaps...
Yes I dont believe in him either.
Sceptics in the Gaps, please explain.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I learned that the Hebrew numbers was written in Hebrew numerals, similar as would Roman numbers be written by I, X, V, L, M etc.
In Hebrew the number 22 is “KAF+BEIT” and 42 is “MEM+BEIT”.
If I have it correct, this is how it will appear. ב+נ and מ+נ.
Now, anyone that would like to call this a contradiction should first take the following into consideration.
The books of Chronicles were written on either Papyri or parchment and the ink was hand mixed. Both the ink and writing materials was highly degradable and taken into account that these passages were written between 930 BC and 440 BC, it passed through many scribes and copyists to what leftover manuscripts we have today.
Conclusion.

This would be a good question for the Judaism directory as well.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
God of the Gaps...
Yes I dont believe in him either.
Sceptics in the Gaps, please explain.

Skeptics of the gaps is my term - a counter to God of the Gaps.
Skeptics said there were no ancient Jews or twelve tribes - just Canaanites with a religion
There was no King David, or Isaiah the prophet.
Jews didn't have their own language, or could even write
etc

But then DNA shows the Jew is really an ethnic group, even one of the tribes is located
And there is a house of David
And an Isaiah
And a proto-Hebrew language
etc..

So skeptics retreat on these fronts. Generally they deny they ever dismissed the idea
of King David, Israel, Jews etc and find other areas where they can use their "expertise."
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Skeptics said there were no ancient Jews or twelve tribes - just Canaanites with a religion
There was no King David, or Isaiah the prophet.
Jews didn't have their own language, or could even write
etc.

You paint with such a broad brush that the resulting mess constitutes little more than grossly ignorant and dishonest ad hominem.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Another surprise hit the Atheists in 1935 when the Tel Dan stelae was discovered at Lachish and on it we have Hazael bosting he killed both Jehoram and his son Ahaziah.
Damn but the Bible is trustworthy!

For the record, Ahazia was 22.
And you know this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

In any case, whatever the truth, it shows the Bible does contradict itself. It is fallacious.

.
 
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SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Skeptics of the gaps is my term - a counter to God of the Gaps.
Skeptics said there were no ancient Jews or twelve tribes - just Canaanites with a religion
There was no King David, or Isaiah the prophet.
Jews didn't have their own language, or could even write
etc

But then DNA shows the Jew is really an ethnic group, even one of the tribes is located
And there is a house of David
And an Isaiah
And a proto-Hebrew language
etc..

So skeptics retreat on these fronts. Generally they deny they ever dismissed the idea
of King David, Israel, Jews etc and find other areas where they can use their "expertise."
Thanx pal.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
You paint with such a broad brush that the resulting mess constitutes little more than grossly ignorant and dishonest ad hominem.
Please explain.
If I did make an error I would like to correct it ASAP.
Is it true that the manuscripts of the OT were written down for say, 2 000 years?
If so, how long would a manuscript last? 50 years?
If so, then the manuscript would be re written 40 times, am I correct?
Additional coppies would also be made, not just one manuscript, correct.
Say 50 to keep in all the synagogues in Israel and Judah?
so we will have 2000 manuscripts re writen over a period of 2 000 years.
Now lets consider the following.
The Temple were raided a few times in its history, but the worst was when Nebuchadnezzar burned everything down in 685 BC.
This did not only effect the Temple, but all the scrolls in the library, the scribal rooms etc.
Ezra and Nehemia did not even have the Torah when they returned to jerusalem.
These manuscripts were collected from far and abroad and reconstructed in about 440 BC.
Now, why would anyone think that a small error such as the difference between 22 and 42 is "grossly ignorant and dishonest ad hominem"

Please teach me master!
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
And you know this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

In any case, whatever the truth, it shows the Bible does contradict itself. It is fallacious.

.
Actually you are totally wrong.
It demonstrates that you need to find some mistake to blow it up to your "Bible does contradict itself. It is fallacious" claim.
I will post one so called contradiction every day concocted by your atheist priests to demonstrate the poor reading capabilities they possess.
What do you say about your error on the hail and Locusts Contradiction?
Do you agree that you "contradict yourself and are fallacious." too?
or did you simply coppy and paste a lie without investigating for yourself?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Actually you are totally wrong.
It demonstrates that you need to find some mistake to blow it up to your "Bible does contradict itself. It is fallacious" claim.
I will post one so called contradiction every day concocted by your atheist priests to demonstrate the poor reading capabilities they possess.
Yeah, I figured you didn't know for a fact that Ahazia was 22. but instead were simply blowing smoke, and had no defense for your assertion other than changing the subject. Moreover, like it or not, the inconsistency shows the Bible does indeed contradict itself. It is fallacious. :D And I have a good idea you know it, but don't have the courage to admit it to yourself.

.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I figured you didn't know for a fact that Ahazia was 22. but instead were simply blowing smoke, and had no defense for your assertion other than changing the subject. Moreover, like it or not, the inconsistency shows the Bible does indeed contradict itself. It is fallacious. :D And I have a good idea you know it, but don't have the courage to admit it to yourself.

.
Realy.
So, if the maths shows 22 years, and a lot of manuscripts does say 22, isnt it obvious 22 years?
Out of all your posted contradictions, this is the tread you are danglin on hoping to save face for the absurd claims you attempted to throw at a Christian.
Remember how cocky you were in referring you to posts #39 and #40?
How sure you were in posting "evidence" that the Bible is one huge contradiction?

Well, we are down to you fighting for one numerical notation, and you ignoring the elephant you brought into the room.
Just admit you were wrong man.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Here is another "Contradiction" by the Atheist:

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26).
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

Answer:
I learned that the Hebrew numbers was written in Hebrew numerals, similar as would Roman numbers be written by I, X, V, L, M etc.
In Hebrew the number 22 is “KAF+BEIT” and 42 is “MEM+BEIT”.
If I have it correct, this is how it will appear. ב+נ and מ+נ.
Now, anyone that would like to call this a contradiction should first take the following into consideration.
The books of Chronicles were written on either Papyri or parchment and the ink was hand mixed. Both the ink and writing materials was highly degradable and taken into account that these passages were written between 930 BC and 440 BC, it passed through many scribes and copyists to what leftover manuscripts we have today.
Conclusion.
The possibility that one manuscript in a lineage of hundreds had some damage, or the ink smudged is almost certain, no, not “almost”, but certainly to have occurred. Look at what an insignificant change in the Hebrew of say, Ezra, or Nechemia’s time could have resulted in writing a MEM in stead of a KAF.
Most manuscripts of the Septuagint have the number twenty, and one has twenty-two. Twenty-two is also reflected in the Syriac and the Arabic versions.
Therefore, to have a lineage of at least 200 consecutive copying, with such an insignificant error is actually incredible to say the least. Think of this, the copying of the Bible was done for at least 2400 years, and the copyists who re wrote this incorrect number had such a lot of respect for the Bible, they did not even attempt to change this small fact of their history. Now that’s what I call inherent honesty.
Another surprise hit the Atheists in 1935 when the Tel Dan stelae was discovered at Lachish and on it we have Hazael bosting he killed both Jehoram and his son Ahaziah.
Damn but the Bible is trustworthy!
For the record, Ahazia was 22.
All that , and you still can't prove a thing.

Face it. The Bible has a slew of contradictions. Some can be rectified and most cannot.

If what you're saying is true and the contradictions resolved , then it's alternatively grounds for proof that the Bible is not divinely inspired nor inerrant.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
All that , and you still can't prove a thing.

Face it. The Bible has a slew of contradictions. Some can be rectified and most cannot.

If what you're saying is true and the contradictions resolved , then it's alternatively grounds for proof that the Bible is not divinely inspired nor inerrant.

The bottom line - there WAS a King Ahaziah, just as there was a House of David, and an Isaiah etc..
And there was a grand nation of Israel, and twelve tribes, and a temple.
There is no Rainbow Serpent or Neptune & Jupiter - the bible is not a myth.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
All that , and you still can't prove a thing.

Face it. The Bible has a slew of contradictions. Some can be rectified and most cannot.

If what you're saying is true and the contradictions resolved , then it's alternatively grounds for proof that the Bible is not divinely inspired nor inerrant.
Some can be rectified, most not:::::::::example pal.
Supply the examples so I can see what you are talking about.

And as for me not able to prove anything, did I not prove to you that atehists did not even read the Bible and made a claim that the Bible was not sure about how the fields were destroyed?
Or did you forget that one too.
And since when did any Christian claim there will not be human errors in the Bible?
We claim it was divinely inspired, thats it!
That there will be evidence of age old errors made by human transmitters and re coppying thousands of manuscripts over 2 000 years is a fact!
We know that, and we embrace that fact.
And, we love to investigate for ourself to find these little miracles you call contradictions.
We call it, Bible study!
Just say, sorry I was wrong!
It will save you more face than hammering on the numbers 42 and 22, because I wil refer to #39 and #40.
:):D
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
All that , and you still can't prove a thing.

Face it. The Bible has a slew of contradictions. Some can be rectified and most cannot.

If what you're saying is true and the contradictions resolved , then it's alternatively grounds for proof that the Bible is not divinely inspired nor inerrant.
Perhaps you would like to share your Zen Buddhist writings with me, which do you believe in?
Lankavatara, the Vimalakirti, the Avatamsaka, or the Lotus Sutra.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Perhaps you would like to share your Zen Buddhist writings with me, which do you believe in?
Lankavatara, the Vimalakirti, the Avatamsaka, or the Lotus Sutra.
The writings are useful , but they're still inherently empty.

There's nothing to believe in Buddhism as it's an engaged religion that does not rely on belief, so it's not really a concern with most Buddhist if the Buddha existed or not nor if the writings are not harmonious with each other. You ought to try reading Dogen and you will quickly understand the contradictory and inharmonious manner of Zen. I don't think Christianity could match up to that same standard considering it's a static religion when it comes to its writings and literature. In other words, it's okay if there are contradictions in Buddhist writings and even mythology. Even the Heart Sutra which I base my practice on is empty of any permanency. ;O]
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
The writings are useful , but they're still inherently empty.

There's nothing to believe in Buddhism as it's an engaged religion that does not rely on belief, so it's not really a concern with most Buddhist if the Buddha existed or not nor if the writings are not harmonious with each other. You ought to try reading Dogen and you will quickly understand the contradictory and inharmonious manner of Zen. I don't think Christianity could match up to that same standard considering it's a static religion when it comes to its writings and literature. In other words, it's okay if there are contradictions in Buddhist writings and even mythology. Even the Heart Sutra which I base my practice on is empty of any permanency. ;O]

Good to hear that you dont believe in any Sutras, because it is the greatest bit of rubbish I ever read.
So, what is you r foundation to believe in Zen Buddhism, to attain enlightenment?
Where are you now?
Bodhisattva?
Why?
who taught you these things?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Good to hear that you dont believe in any Sutras, because it is the greatest bit of rubbish I ever read.
So, what is you r foundation to believe in Zen Buddhism, to attain enlightenment?
Where are you now?
Bodhisattva?
Why?
who taught you these things?
Well its not exactly rubbish in my case. When I die I won't need it anymore. The teachings are only a raft for this lifetime. It's all they are. Nobody is going to remember them once death occurs. So yes you're right , it's rubbish in the end.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Some can be rectified, most not:::::::::example pal.
Supply the examples so I can see what you are talking about.

And as for me not able to prove anything, did I not prove to you that atehists did not even read the Bible and made a claim that the Bible was not sure about how the fields were destroyed?
Or did you forget that one too.
And since when did any Christian claim there will not be human errors in the Bible?
We claim it was divinely inspired, thats it!
That there will be evidence of age old errors made by human transmitters and re coppying thousands of manuscripts over 2 000 years is a fact!
We know that, and we embrace that fact.
And, we love to investigate for ourself to find these little miracles you call contradictions.
We call it, Bible study!
Just say, sorry I was wrong!
It will save you more face than hammering on the numbers 42 and 22, because I wil refer to #39 and #40.
:):D
I'm sure you're aware of the Skeptics Anointed Bible?

Skeptic's Annotated Bible - RationalWiki

There's enough material in there to last for years. Suffice to say, I go for the more direct contradictions.

One is Pauline Christianity where Paul claimed to have met Christ on the road to Damascus in direct contradiction to Matthew 24:23. It's a fatal flaw in my opinion.

Another would be the Phantom camels for which camels were touted to be used in the Bible long before they were actually introduced into the region. There is no room for argument on this one , as it's already been established by scientific community that it was the case and the Bible is completely off base with this one.
 
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