Does a death bed conversion really make a Christian?

Pah said:

I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

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I don't see why it would matter when you became a Christian, if Christians are saved by their faith and God's grace.

what you sow, so shall you reap... i thank if person being good in heart it dosn't matter wither it be on the death bed or in the past, if a person sawing evil dose this then what will make him or her do the same once they realize death is nothing to be affread of... like in ww2 soulders would repent and promise that they would not drink, comment aduldry, and other sins, after there lives were saved they would go back do the same... so i thank it depends on what a person sows in life will be there reward in the end...

PHOTOTAKER said:

so i thank it depends on what a person sows in life will be there reward in the end...

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Right
All God will be interested in is whether people are Christians or not.
If you're a Christian it means you like his son, but if you're not, it means you don't like him, and God is going to be a little bit peeved..
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

Mick in England said:

Deathbed conversions have got to come from the heart, you can't just say a few words without meaning them.
Here's a little tale I've woven around a Bible incident involving a man we'll call Rufus who locked onto Jesus from the heart..

RUFUSby Mick
Rufus could feel death creeping up on him.
His heart pounded painfully as he struggled for breath, and in his final minutes he closed his eyes and looked back over his life.
Born in the slums to a prostitute mother who gave him away at birth, and an unknown Roman soldier father, he grew up constantly getting in trouble, his philosophy was dog eat dog in this world and all that matters is looking after number one, because nobody else will, that's for sure,and he did it all, lying,stealing,mugging,burglary,extortion,blackmail,deception,fraud,violence...
Now he knew his dead body would be thrown into an unmarked grave before the day was out, and that he'd quickly fade from human memory,unremembered and forgotten as if he'd never existed, having never done a single good thing for anybody in his life nor given anybody reason to lament his passing..
The thought of entering that black void of death made him shiver deep in his soul,and he felt a cold clammy fear like he'd never known before. He opened his eyes,and pulling against the nails in his hands and feet, he turned to the young man on the cross next to him and said with sobbing panicking repentance in his voice "Jesus remember me..."
And Jesus replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise..."
(Luke 23:41)
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You write very well, Mick -- seriously. But to tell you the truth, the "sobbing panicking repentence" part was a dead giveaway to me. Rufus was scared, not repentant. There is no evidence that he felt any remorse over "never having done a single good thing for anybody in his life." He saw what he thought might be a lifeline, a way for him to avoid the "black void" and, desperate, he grasped for it. At that point, he would have grasped for anything, at least based on the information you've given us.

That's not repentance and it would have been totally transparent to Jesus.

Pah said:

I suppose in name he could be called Christian at his death. But is that the mark of a "true" Christian who will be judged by God soon after his death?

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We're told that when we cry out to Jesus Christ, He answers. If one truly repents and calls upon Jesus Christ, even on their death bed...they will be forgiven.

And when one accepts Christ TRUTHFULLY, out of love and with a repenting heart and then they died...they would die free from spot or blemish.

They would not be rewarded in heaven as greatly as an individual who lived for Christ while living, still, according to the Word, the "death bed" Christian is no less "saved" than one who lived years for Christ.

Katzpur said:

There are a number of things we really don't know about this individual:

1. We generally assume he had not been baptized, but we certainly don't know for sure. After all, how many men do you suppose there on on death row in prisons thoughout the U.S. today who were baptized?

2. He specifically refers to Jesus as "Lord." While I have never heard this taught, it would make sense to me that He was at least familiar with the teachings of Jesus Christ. If he were hanging on the cross next to Christ and had never laid eyes on Him before, it seems kind of odd that he would address Him as "Lord."

3. We're not even sure that he was guilty of the crime he'd been convicted of. The Romans obviously didn't have any qualms about crucifying Jesus and He was clearly not guilty of any crime. It is entirely possible that the "thief" was just as innocent..

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I might actually conceede this to you but only on the merits that it might not have been a "death-bed" conversion not completely on the reasons you mentioned.

Baptism is an act of obedience that is post salvation.

Calling him "Lord" is meaningless here. "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV

We do know he was guilty of his crimes. " But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds..." Luke 23:40-41 KJV

The only reason I'd accept that he may have been saved before his cross confession is that it is not specifically mentioed that he was saved on the cross and it is not clear that he was lost beforehand. I might infer that he wasn't considering the state of criminal condemnation he was in yet, criminality is possible in the saved.

What I find very important is that if he was saved previous to his own cross then it might show that post salvation action doesn't negate one's salvation. Here was a man worthy of death yet still saved.

Katzpur said:

How likely do you really think it is that someone is going to "decide to believe" in Jesus Christ 20 minutes before he dies -- for any reason other than to make sure he's got his bases covered?

Obviously there are individuals who do not embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ until later during their lifetimes, and I believe Christ's forgiveness is extended to them as fully as if they had lived the majority of their lives as His followers. The bottom line is that Christ knows our hearts, and a last ditch attempt to gain favor by declaring faith in Him isn't going to fool Him.

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This being a heart matter it is up to Christ to accept or profession of faith and not merely our own mouthing of the words: " Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men...." John 2: 23-24 KJV

sandy whitelinger said:

I might actually conceede this to you but only on the merits that it might not have been a "death-bed" conversion not completely on the reasons you mentioned.

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But the bottom line, is that we really don't have enough information to know for sure.

Baptism is an act of obedience that is post salvation.

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I disagree. Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." He didn't say, "He that is saved should be baptized." He also said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The only reason I'd accept that he may have been saved before his cross confession is that it is not specifically mentioed that he was saved on the cross and it is not clear that he was lost beforehand. I might infer that he wasn't considering the state of criminal condemnation he was in yet, criminality is possible in the saved.

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Well, we'll probably continue to go around in circles on this because you appear to see salvation as a one-time event that takes place at a specific moment in someone's life, while I see it as a process of becoming more like Christ and never actually culminating.

I've been thinking about Mick's tale of deathbed repentance all morning, and have decided to share one of my own.

Rufus lay dying. His heart was heavy, aching with grief over a life wasted. He had been born a child of privilege, given everything anyone could possibly want. He'd attended the best schools, had the nicest clothes and traveled the world. People knew his name. What had he ever given back? Poring over memories of his past, he was filled with regret. In Rufus' life, Rufus had always been number one. Nothing had mattered but his own selfish desires. How many, many people had he hurt throughout the years? How many lives had his own greed, dishonesty and deceit destroyed? As he thought of what might have been, of the good he might have done, tears of shame stung his eyes.

For some reason, he remembered kneeling beside his bed as a child, his mother teaching him to pray. That must have been what? over seventy-five years ago? He hadn't spoken to God for years. They were strangers and, until this moment, he hadn't cared. Life had been too good to waste it on Christianity. He shuddered to realize what he'd missed. Now, in the last moments of his life, he prayed, hesitantly, humbly. "God, remember me... Rufus? I... I know how disappointed you must be in me. I'm disappointed in myself, believe me. I was so blessed and yet so arrogant and full of pride. I didn't need you. I had my own gods -- money, power, fame. Where are they now? How foolish I've been. How foolish and how sinful. God, if by chance, it's not too late for me... If in your mercy you can still see a part of me worth saving, then let your Son's sacrifice cleanse me. Let me see your face, God. If I have waited too long... if the time is too far spent, then God, your will be done." A peace fell over Rufus. Closing his eyes for the last time, he felt happier than at any time in his nearly eighty years. He felt a hand on his shoulder and a whisper in his ear, "I love you, Rufus, more than you can even begin to imagine. Paradise awaits you, and eventually, if it's what you choose, Eternal Life in the presence of my Father."