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The Baha'i faith

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
I never given this religion more than a passing glance before. Yesterday I really couldn't see where one of Baha'i followers was coming from, so I read a bit about Baha'i, not much it just isn't as claimed. Or maybe it's just me not having enough information

1) Their prophet claims he's the chosen one of many different faiths including the Jewish massiah! Wouldn't that make Christianity false in their view?

2) It's claimed compatible with science, yet claims all life including man was there when the earth was formed just unmade,,,?! Nothing in Evolution theory makes mankind's or any other life the predestined end product of natural selection. Doesn't that make it incompatible with ToE?
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I never given this religion more than a passing glance before. Yesterday I really couldn't see where one of Baha'i followers was coming from, so I read a bit about Baha'i, not much it just isn't as claimed. Or maybe it's just me not having enough information

1) Their prophet claims he's the chosen one of many different faiths including the Jewish massiah! Wouldn't that make Christianity false in their view?

2) It's claimed compatible with science, yet claims all life including man was there when the earth was formed just unmade,,,?! Nothing in Evolution theory makes mankind's or any other life the predestined end product of natural selection. Doesn't that make it incompatible with ToE?
1. No, In the Baha'i faith Jesus is the first coming of the Messiah and Baha'u'llah is the second coming.
2. According to my understanding yes it does make it incompatible with the ToE
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
1. No, In the Baha'i faith Jesus is the first coming of the Messiah and Baha'u'llah is the second coming.
2. According to my understanding yes it does make it incompatible with the ToE

Thanks, I saw that, but as he claims he's the chosen one in the Torah that would make Jesus false, like I said maybe it's me not getting it correct
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks, I saw that, but as he claims he's the chosen one in the Torah that would make Jesus false, like I said maybe it's me not getting it correct


From an outsider's view, there is no correct or incorrect, just differing views, and occasionally both those views insisting that they're correct and the other is wrong.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
From an outsider's view, there is no correct or incorrect, just differing views, and occasionally both those views insisting that they're correct and the other is wrong.

Doesn't matter so much now. I know I'm right, the strawhat guy just proved it
 

Sen McGlinn

Member
The term Messiah is often used in the Bahai writings, and almost always refers to Jesus, who is also referred to as "the Spirit." The only exception that comes to mind is where Abdu'l-Baha says :

All the peoples of the world are awaiting two Manifestations, Who must be contemporaneous. This is what they all have been promised. In the Torah the Jews are promised the Lord of Hosts and the Messiah. In the Gospel, the return of Christ and Elijah is foretold. In the religion of Muhammad there is the promise of the Mahdi and the Messiah. ...
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions 2014 Translation)​

In the 'end times' picture in Shiah Islam there are two figures, the Mahdi and the return of Jesus, and they call the latter the Messiah. But they also believe that Christ was the Messiah when he came in Palestine, before the Islamic age.

As for the theory of evolution, this is endorsed in the Bahai teachings, but that was partly obscured by a bad translation of Some Answered Questions, dating from 1908. That's been sorted out in the 2014 translation. There's no doubt that Abdu'l-Baha knew and understood that life on earth is very old, and that it has changed gradually, and that human beings come out of that same process. I don't know whether he understood the principle of selective survival, which is Darwin's key contribution to explaining why there's gradual change that has a direction, producing new species and whole families of species, such as dinosaurs and primates. He writes :
"... we have no record of twenty thousand years ago, even though we established before through rational arguments that life on this earth is very ancient not one or two hundred thousand, or even one or two million years old: it is ancient indeed, and the records and traces of ancient times have been entirely obliterated.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions New Translation)​

He does however insist that the human spirit has always existed, but not always on this planet. The distinctively human characteristics are not physical but intellectual and spiritual, and the word the translators have chosen - even in the new translation - is "species." But it's not a biological species, homo sapiens or homo neanderthalensis or homo antecessor (look them up, they're fascinating) ... it's a metaphysical category that Abdu'l-Baha is referring to. On the physical plane, human beings come from the same processes as animals: "the animal, as to its body, is made up of the same constituent elements as man." "..the body of man, which is composed of the elements, is ... the most perfect of all existing things. It grows and develops through the animal spirit."
but "Intellect and the faculty of comprehension are God's gifts whereby man is distinguished from other animals."
He's arguing against the idea that humans are just more refined animals, and in favour of the idea that humans are refined animals PLUS a non-physical reality that is a gift of God.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
***Mod Post***

This thread has been moved to Religious Debates.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And they would be correct. John the Baptist wasn't Elijah and the NT doesn't teach that he was
From Matthew 17:10-13 inclusive

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.’
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
1. No, In the Baha'i faith Jesus is the first coming of the Messiah and Baha'u'llah is the second coming.
2. According to my understanding yes it does make it incompatible with the ToE
Then what do Baha'is say about the other "manifestations", Muhammad and The Bab, that came between Jesus and Baha'u'llah?
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
From Matthew 17:10-13 inclusive

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.’
If I call someone like Stepehen Strasburg the Elvis Presley of baseball does that mean that Stepehen Strasburg is Elvis Presley? Jesus as usual is being figurative.
 
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