Was I properly baptised?

Ellen Brown · Apr 26, 2019

If you are going to be a Christian perhaps you should do Baptism when you decide you want to do it, not when mom or dad or a pastor or someone else says you should? There is not much chance that I would yield to the demands of someone trying to badger me into it EVER again.

Fool · Apr 26, 2019

Jonathan Bailey said:
At age 17, I was allegedly baptised in church by a minister. The minister dipped his fingers in (holy water??) and then placed his wet fingers upon the top of my head.

The term for this method was called something that begins with a T if my memory is correct.

I'm not sure if the Catholic church would recognize this method as valid but I do have my written certificate of baptism stating that I had received a "Christian baptism".

My research has revealed that baptism is done by immersion, affusion or aspersion.

immersion in the name of names.

first wash the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean too.

Windwalker · Apr 26, 2019

Even when I was part of this where they cared so much about baptism, I always wondered, why would it matter to God? And so I left them.

Jonathan Bailey · Apr 27, 2019

Riders said:
Well I dont think it matter water is water. If you go to the united Pentecostal church they claim you have to be immersed in water and baptized in the name of Jesus only not the father son and holy ghost or your not saved. They were crazy this is why I dont believe in getting upset over baptism methods.

I'm glad the Pentecostals recognize the term 'Holy Ghost'. The United Methodist Church in America also uses the term Holy Ghost. I'm not into the motor-mouth and loud ways of the Holy Roller worship style, however, nor into this laying on of hands jazz during prayer. I don't appreciate preachers who sound like car salesmen or auctioneers at the pulpit. Verbal prayer without person-to-person touching is sufficient. Church worship should be solemn, quiet, serious, serene and pious, not disco party or a song and dance.

My understanding of Christian ways is old-fashioned. I like beautiful organ music and serious choir singing at church. Traditional and classical.

The King James Version says this about baptism:

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

shmogie · Apr 27, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Are you sure about that? Most of the passages in Acts about baptism fit better with baptism being a "washing in the Holy Spirit" than they do with a physical ritual, IMO.

Yes, I am quite sure about it. Paul talks about baptism, using the terms I, or they, baptized. ( Paul in one passage discusses baptism, and how few he did )

One cannot order the Spirit to do anything to or for anyone. It goes where it goes.

The immediate post Apostolic Church baptized with water, carrying on the doctrine of the Apostolic Church.

shmogie · Apr 27, 2019

It ma

Windwalker said:
Even when I was part of this where they cared so much about baptism, I always wondered, why would it matter to God? And so I left them.

It matters to God because bit is a public declaration of your faith.

You stand before the world and state you are a follower of Christ, which pleases God.

Windwalker · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
It matters to God because bit is a public declaration of your faith.

It sounds more like something that matters to one's own self. That can be a positive thing. But as far as God goes, why would that matter to him if you did or did not feel to perform a public ritual? Does it injure him in some way if you don't? Does it make him angry, or something like that?

shmogie said:
You stand before the world and state you are a follower of Christ, which pleases God.

I would think God would be pleased with someone choosing faith, regardless if they felt a need to profess that publically. I think God is a lot less "conditional" than a lot of Christians seems to imagine. I see God as unconditional Love, and is pleased no matter what.

Katja · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
It ma

It matters to God because bit is a public declaration of your faith.

You stand before the world and state you are a follower of Christ, which pleases God.

So would going to church, wearing religious jewelry or t-shirts with religious methods, carrying a Bible, proselytizing or soapboxing, etc. You can make your religion very public if you want... and Jesus condemned some of those methods.

I think baptism has its place as a ritual, but I think there's more to it than a "it's public" explanation.

Jonathan Bailey · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
It ma

It matters to God because bit is a public declaration of your faith.

You stand before the world and state you are a follower of Christ, which pleases God.

Yes, a CHRISTIAN indeed is a FOLLOWER of CHRIST.

The HOLY GHOST cannot be given an order to come but He can be asked to come through prayer in the name of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

shmogie · Apr 27, 2019

Katja said:
So would going to church, wearing religious jewelry or t-shirts with religious methods, carrying a Bible, proselytizing or soapboxing, etc. You can make your religion very public if you want... and Jesus condemned some of those methods.

I think baptism has its place as a ritual, but I think there's more to it than a "it's public" explanation.

It has symbolic meaning as well.

1) being buried, then resurrected to life in Christ, as he was.

2) It represents cleansing, the cleansing of the consequences of sin for the baptized believer. the writing off of a debt owed, A fresh start, with the promise of acceptance and salvation.

3) It is a form of ministry for all those present, specifically for those who are not saved by the Grace of God.

If you are receiving the greatest award that can be, is it wrong for others to see the award given, and to celebrate with you ?

Windwalker · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
If you are receiving the greatest award that can be, is it wrong for others to see the award given, and to celebrate with you ?

Is it necessary to do this in front of others? Is it required by God to save them? Without it, no deal?

shmogie · Apr 27, 2019

Windwalker said:
Is it necessary to do this in front of others? Is it required by God to save them? Without it, no deal?

No, it not necessary to have baptism in front of others, nor is it necessary to be baptized to have salvation.

There is nothing one must do for salvation, it is freely given by God´s Grace.

Katja · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
It has symbolic meaning as well.

1) being buried, then resurrected to life in Christ, as he was.

2) It represents cleansing, the cleansing of the consequences of sin for the baptized believer. the writing off of a debt owed, A fresh start, with the promise of acceptance and salvation.

3) It is a form of ministry for all those present, specifically for those who are not saved by the Grace of God.

If you are receiving the greatest award that can be, is it wrong for others to see the award given, and to celebrate with you ?

That is not the point I was making. The point is that, as you say, it's about a lot more than "people publicly see you saying you're Christian." I really wouldn't care if others saw my baptism or not; it's between me and God, not me and them.

Windwalker · Apr 27, 2019

shmogie said:
No, it not necessary to have baptism in front of others, nor is it necessary to be baptized to have salvation.

There is nothing one must do for salvation, it is freely given by God´s Grace.

Why then do many Christians fuss about if it is by immersion or sprinkling, what age it is, what words are said during it, and all of these sorts of requirements? What makes them so concerned about these things?

Kenny · Apr 28, 2019

Jonathan Bailey said:
At age 17, I was allegedly baptised in church by a minister. The minister dipped his fingers in (holy water??) and then placed his wet fingers upon the top of my head.

The term for this method was called something that begins with a T if my memory is correct.

I'm not sure if the Catholic church would recognize this method as valid but I do have my written certificate of baptism stating that I had received a "Christian baptism".

My research has revealed that baptism is done by immersion, affusion or aspersion.

What did it mean to you when he did it? It sounds like you didn't understand why/what the minister was doing.

I think it is important to understand the why's which is the reason for baptism in whatever form it is performed.

Kenny · Apr 28, 2019

Jonathan Bailey said:
Church worship should be solemn, quiet, serious, serene and pious, not disco party or a song and dance.

.

Apparently, there are different viewpoints:

Psalm 150 The Passion Translation (TPT)
The Hallelujah Chorus
150 Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Praise God in his holy sanctuary!
Praise him in his stronghold in the sky!
2 Praise him for his miracles of might!
Praise him for his magnificent greatness!
3 Praise him with the trumpets blasting!
Praise him with piano and guitar!
4–5 Praise him with drums and dancing!
Praise him with the loud, resounding clash of cymbals!
Praise him with every instrument you can find!
6 Let everyone everywhere join in the crescendo
of ecstatic praise to Yahweh!
Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

Doesn't sound quiet to me or serious, for that matter.

But ultimately, what inspires you is a good worship to God.

shmogie · Apr 28, 2019

Windwalker said:
Why then do many Christians fuss about if it is by immersion or sprinkling, what age it is, what words are said during it, and all of these sorts of requirements? What makes them so concerned about these things?

Because it is an important event. Christians weren´t told it is optional. They were commanded to do it.

There are circumstances where it is an impossible thing for someone to do, otherwise, it is incumbent on the believer to be baptized.

The friction you cite is between Protestants and Catholics. The contention over baptism is emblematic of a very deep theological divide.

Protestants believe baptism should be done as it was done and taught in the Apostolic church, full immersion of someone old enough to clearly understand what it means and represents,

Catholics believe that their church has the right to essentially do what it chooses to do in a whole host of matters.

Thus sprinkling of infants, something nowhere found in the Bible.

Katja · Apr 28, 2019

Plenty of Protestant denominations don't use full-immersion* and baptize infants.

*and some do and don't on the same day, as one service I was at where two people were being baptized. One was fully-immersed, the other sprinkled, I assume by choice of those being baptized.

9-10ths_Penguin · Apr 28, 2019

shmogie said:
Yes, I am quite sure about it. Paul talks about baptism, using the terms I, or they, baptized. ( Paul in one passage discusses baptism, and how few he did )

One cannot order the Spirit to do anything to or for anyone. It goes where it goes.

The immediate post Apostolic Church baptized with water, carrying on the doctrine of the Apostolic Church.

The fact that Paul performed baptism (presumably with water) a handful of times doesn't imply that this method was the only one method of baptism referred to in the New Testament, or that the apostles thought that water baptism was the only baptism that mattered.

And balance 1 Corinthians against Acts: in 1 Corinthians, Paul says that he only baptized a specific handful of people, but Acts describes many incidents where Paul preached to some group of people and then it says "they were immediately baptized" in the passive voice. These passages certainly read as if baptism happened in the same momement that they becane convinced Christians, which fits more with their baptism being one of the Holy Spirit than it being a water baptism... especially if the baptized people aren't the specific ones listed off in 1 Corinthians (i.e. Crispus, Gaius, and the family of Stephenus).

shmogie · Apr 28, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
The fact that Paul performed baptism (presumably with water) a handful of times doesn't imply that this method was the only one method of baptism referred to in the New Testament, or that the apostles thought that water baptism was the only baptism that mattered.

And balance 1 Corinthians against Acts: in 1 Corinthians, Paul says that he only baptized a specific handful of people, but Acts describes many incidents where Paul preached to some group of people and then it says "they were immediately baptized" in the passive voice. These passages certainly read as if baptism happened in the same momement that they becane convinced Christians, which fits more with their baptism being one of the Holy Spirit than it being a water baptism... especially if the baptized people aren't the specific ones listed off in 1 Corinthians (i.e. Crispus, Gaius, and the family of Stephenus).

I believe that like the Ethiopian eunuch, water baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit occur virtually at the same time, as it did for Christ at His baptism.

The Spirit can convince, and enable repentance, culminating in baptism by water.

At that point, where a commitment to repentance is demonstrated, and complete forgiveness of the one being baptized is declared, The Spirit comes and resides in, and guides the believer.

Certainly guidance by the Spirit is critically important, more important than baptism by water, yet they are part of a process that requires repentance, forgiveness, the indwelling of the Spirit all culminating in and demonstrated by water baptism.

Was I properly baptised?

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