Chaldeans, according to the monuments

Where is Ur of the Chaldees? Was Woolley right, or Gordon?
Abraham and the Merchants of Ura : Cyrus Gordon : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Or neither?

Where is the land of the Chaldeans, according to the monuments?

"Instead of "Vannic," it has been proposed to call the language "Khaldian." The chief god of the people who spoke the language was Khaldis, and in the inscriptions we find the people themselves described as "the children of Khaldis." Derivatives from the name are found employed in a geographical sense northward of the region to which the inscriptions belong. Thus the Khaldi "in the neighbourhood of Colchis" are said to have been also called Khaldad; "Khaldees" are frequently referred to by Armenian writers as living between Trapezont and Batum, and a Turkish inscription at Sumela shows that as late as the beginning of the fifteenth century Lazistan was still known as Khaldia."
The archaeology of the cuneiform inscriptions : Archibald Henry Sayce : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Isaiah 23:13-15 "Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, [till] the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; [and] he brought it to ruin.
Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot."
Strong's Hebrew Bible Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

Are there two 70-year prophecies?

Temple of Khaldis, at Muzazir, Pillaged by the Assyrians (in snake-hats)
History of Egypt, Chaldea, Syria, Babylonia and Assyria : Maspero, G. (Gaston), 1846-1916 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

But the 8-spoked wheels of the chariots and the round shields belonged to the Celts, according to Ridgeway. And Drews, in The Coming of the Greeks, tells us that the Hurrians are the chariot-makers. (Maybe Waddell wasn't entirely wrong? ;-) )

"Today, we are able not only to connect the Hurrians with the Horites, but also to combine the latter with the Hiwwites." {Hivites}
Ethnic Movements in the Near East in the Second Millennium B. C., The Hurrians and Their Connections with the Habiru and the Hyksos : E. A. Speiser : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Sayce, The White Race of Palestine
The White Race of Palestine : A. H. SAYCE : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Sayce tells us that Gilgal means stone-circle, (Galilee: circle of nations) and Amorites had iron bedsteads. Was Palestine the cradle of Celts both Armenoid and Nordic?

It's lately been said that the Table of Nations was written AFTER wars etc. gave them birth in the countries to which they were subsequently assigned.

What say you, Readers, to any of these questions?

________________________
see also "Why Sir William Jones got it all wrong" by Lyle Campbell
www.ehu.eus/ojs/index.php/ASJU/article/viewFile/4384/4329

The Egyptian Monuments called all of Palestine Hurru, Huru or Hr... just as they at another time called all of Palestine land of the (equally non-semitic) Amorites. The Hurru are Hurrians, as Speiser will tell you in the link above.

OtherSheep said:

Where is Ur of the Chaldees? Was Woolley right, or Gordon?
Abraham and the Merchants of Ura : Cyrus Gordon : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Or neither?

Where is the land of the Chaldeans, according to the monuments?

"Instead of "Vannic," it has been proposed to call the language "Khaldian." The chief god of the people who spoke the language was Khaldis, and in the inscriptions we find the people themselves described as "the children of Khaldis." Derivatives from the name are found employed in a geographical sense northward of the region to which the inscriptions belong. Thus the Khaldi "in the neighbourhood of Colchis" are said to have been also called Khaldad; "Khaldees" are frequently referred to by Armenian writers as living between Trapezont and Batum, and a Turkish inscription at Sumela shows that as late as the beginning of the fifteenth century Lazistan was still known as Khaldia."
The archaeology of the cuneiform inscriptions : Archibald Henry Sayce : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Isaiah 23:13-15 "Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, [till] the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; [and] he brought it to ruin.
Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot."
Strong's Hebrew Bible Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

Are there two 70-year prophecies?

Temple of Khaldis, at Muzazir, Pillaged by the Assyrians (in snake-hats)
History of Egypt, Chaldea, Syria, Babylonia and Assyria : Maspero, G. (Gaston), 1846-1916 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

But the 8-spoked wheels of the chariots and the round shields belonged to the Celts, according to Ridgeway. And Drews, in The Coming of the Greeks, tells us that the Hurrians are the chariot-makers. (Maybe Waddell wasn't entirely wrong? ;-) )

"Today, we are able not only to connect the Hurrians with the Horites, but also to combine the latter with the Hiwwites." {Hivites}
Ethnic Movements in the Near East in the Second Millennium B. C., The Hurrians and Their Connections with the Habiru and the Hyksos : E. A. Speiser : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Sayce, The White Race of Palestine
The White Race of Palestine : A. H. SAYCE : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Sayce tells us that Gilgal means stone-circle, (Galilee: circle of nations) and Amorites had iron bedsteads. Was Palestine the cradle of Celts both Armenoid and Nordic?

It's lately been said that the Table of Nations was written AFTER wars etc. gave them birth in the countries to which they were subsequently assigned.

What say you, Readers, to any of these questions?

________________________
see also "Why Sir William Jones got it all wrong" by Lyle Campbell
www.ehu.eus/ojs/index.php/ASJU/article/viewFile/4384/4329

The Egyptian Monuments called all of Palestine Hurru or Huru, just as they at another time called all of Palestine land of the Amorites. The Hurru are Hurrians, as Speiser will tell you in the link above.

Click to expand...

Ur of the Chaldea was probably Ura near Haran.

Where was Abraham's Ur?
Gen 11:31 Terah took Abram his son and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife, and they went forth together from Ur of the Chaldeans ( Ur [Light] of the ones of Kesad [Clod breaker] ) to go into the land of Canaan, but when they came to Haran, they settled there. (ESV)

Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

There is no debate over where Haran is located, 10 miles north of the Syrian border in Turkey along the Balikh River, a tributary of the Euphrates River. Haran is an important Hurrian center, mentioned in the Nuzi tablets. The moon god, Sin was worshiped here.

There are two cities not far from Haran; Ura and Urfa. Local tradition says that Abraham was born in Urfa. Northern Ur is mentioned in tablets at Ugarit, Nuzi, and Ebla, which refers to Ur, URA, and Urau (See BAR January 2000, page 16).

The names of several of Abraham's relatives like Peleg, Serug, Nahor and Terah, appear as names of cities in the region of Haran (Harper's Bible Dictionary, page 373). Abraham sent his servant back to the region of Haran to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10).

Gen 24:4 You must go back to the country where I was born (nativity) and get a wife for my son Isaac from among my relatives."

Gen 24:10 The servant, who was in charge of Abraham's property, took ten of his master's camels and went to the city where Nahor had lived in northern Mesopotamia (Aram Naharaim) . (GNB)

After working for Laban, Jacob fled across the Euphrates River back to Canaan (Genesis 31:21). If Ur were the one in Southern Mesopotamia, then Jacob would not need to cross the Euphrates. Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

There are two ancient tribes to which the Hebrew word translated as Chaldeans may refer to, the Kaldu or the Kassites.

from: Chaldea - Wikipedia


continued

Abraham's Ur

sooda said:

Ur of the Chaldea was probably Ura near Haran.

Click to expand...

"It is especially significant that Harran, which was at worst the secondary home of the patriarchs, lay in the heart of the Mitanni empire."--Speiser, Ethnic Movements, p.45

OtherSheep said:

"It is especially significant that Harran, which was at worst the secondary home of the patriarchs, lay in the heart of the Mitanni empire."--Speiser, Ethnic Movements, p.45

Click to expand...

They were north of the Mittani empire.. Ufa in known as the city of the prophets. Ur did not exist in the time of Abraham.. The river changed course.. It would have been in a swamp.

"Instead of "Vannic," it has been proposed to call the language "Khaldian." The chief god of the people who spoke the language was Khaldis, and in the inscriptions we find the people themselves described as "the children of Khaldis."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Khaldi.JPG

sooda said:

They were north of the Mittani empire.. Ufa in known as the city of the prophets. Ur did not exist in the time of Abraham.. The river changed course.. It would have been in a swamp.

Click to expand...

How do you suppose the Egyptian word Hr is pronounced?

"Hurrian" represents a name which Tushratta, writing in the language of his country, applied to the people of that country. The Hittites used it for the same people as well as for its language, which they record as far away as Central Anatolia. The Ras Shamra texts have preserved the same basic name in Ugaritic hry, in addition to furnishing pertinent linguistic material both in syllabic and alphabetic form. Other witnesses of this term are the biblical ethnicon "Horite" (Hebrew hori, Greek Chorraios) and the Egyptian land-name Hr."
--Speiser, Intro to Hurrian

"Some time after the first Hyksos had established themselves in Palestine another movement made itself felt. There are no literary records from Palestine to indicate who the new people might have been; yet their two-color pottery, often utilizing bird, tree, or fish motifs, and distinctive cylinder seals, when compared with similar material from northern Mesopotamia, strongly suggest that they were Hurrian."
--Engberg, Hyksos Reconsidered

That "material from northern Mesopotamia" is the Hurrian tablets from Nuzi.

"The second wave involved tribes belonging mainly to the (A) group (partly to B). It included the speakers of the Urartian dialect who did not leave the Highland, and of the dialect (I), that of Urkis, which may have been the first Hurrian dialect to reach not only the Upper Tigris valley but also the territory between Upper Mesopotamia north of the Khabur and the Cilician Taurus."
--Diakonoff, Hurrian Divisions

"A further suggestion is that “Hittites” is a general term by which the Old Testament writers denoted the non-Semitic populations of Canaan, and that the Canaanite Hittites are really the people whom we now call Hurrians. The Hurrians who, as we have seen, entered Upper Mesopotamia from the north about the same time as the Indo-European Hittites came into Asia Minor, spread farther westward, and so many of them entered Canaan that one of the Egyptian words for Canaan was Khûru (Hurrian-land). That there were Hurrians in Canaan in Abraham’s time is certain. And if we could take Ezekiel’s account of the origin of Jerusalem to mean that it was a joint Amorite and Hurrian foundation, we should immediately have an illuminating commentary on the name of Puti-khepa, governor of the city in the Amarna Age, whose name means “Servant of the (Hurrian) goddess Khepa."
--Bruce, Hittites

In other words,
Ur = Hr .... and .... Chaldees = Khaldis
Ur of the Chaldees = Hurrians of the God Khaldis
The People of the God Khaldis owned a large part of the Near East before the Arab conquests.

OtherSheep said:

"Instead of "Vannic," it has been proposed to call the language "Khaldian." The chief god of the people who spoke the language was Khaldis, and in the inscriptions we find the people themselves described as "the children of Khaldis."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Khaldi.JPG



How do you suppose the Egyptian word Hr is pronounced?

"Hurrian" represents a name which Tushratta, writing in the language of his country, applied to the people of that country. The Hittites used it for the same people as well as for its language, which they record as far away as Central Anatolia. The Ras Shamra texts have preserved the same basic name in Ugaritic hry, in addition to furnishing pertinent linguistic material both in syllabic and alphabetic form. Other witnesses of this term are the biblical ethnicon "Horite" (Hebrew hori, Greek Chorraios) and the Egyptian land-name Hr."
--Speiser, Intro to Hurrian

"Some time after the first Hyksos had established themselves in Palestine another movement made itself felt. There are no literary records from Palestine to indicate who the new people might have been; yet their two-color pottery, often utilizing bird, tree, or fish motifs, and distinctive cylinder seals, when compared with similar material from northern Mesopotamia, strongly suggest that they were Hurrian."
--Engberg, Hyksos Reconsidered

That "material from northern Mesopotamia" is the Hurrian tablets from Nuzi.

"The second wave involved tribes belonging mainly to the (A) group (partly to B). It included the speakers of the Urartian dialect who did not leave the Highland, and of the dialect (I), that of Urkis, which may have been the first Hurrian dialect to reach not only the Upper Tigris valley but also the territory between Upper Mesopotamia north of the Khabur and the Cilician Taurus."
--Diakonoff, Hurrian Divisions

"A further suggestion is that “Hittites” is a general term by which the Old Testament writers denoted the non-Semitic populations of Canaan, and that the Canaanite Hittites are really the people whom we now call Hurrians. The Hurrians who, as we have seen, entered Upper Mesopotamia from the north about the same time as the Indo-European Hittites came into Asia Minor, spread farther westward, and so many of them entered Canaan that one of the Egyptian words for Canaan was Khûru (Hurrian-land). That there were Hurrians in Canaan in Abraham’s time is certain. And if we could take Ezekiel’s account of the origin of Jerusalem to mean that it was a joint Amorite and Hurrian foundation, we should immediately have an illuminating commentary on the name of Puti-khepa, governor of the city in the Amarna Age, whose name means “Servant of the (Hurrian) goddess Khepa."
--Bruce, Hittites

Click to expand...

I'm afraid you've lost me.. How do you know how the ancient Egyptians pronounced "hr"?

Jerusalem was a city of the Jebusites, wasn't it?

The Hyksos weren't Hebrews.

sooda said:

I'm afraid you've lost me.. How do you know how the ancient Egyptians pronounced "hr"?

Jerusalem was a city of the Jebusites, wasn't it?

The Hyksos weren't Hebrews.

Click to expand...

That would matter if the Egyptians wrote that part of Genesis. The Semites of Akkadia borrowed the script of Sumer, and seem to have rewritten Sumerian texts into Akkadian. They seem to have done that last thing at Nuzi, too... ... However, generally speaking, H is an aspirate...

Do Jebusites show up on the Monuments? Some are seeming to say that the Hyksos built Jerusalem (which is not a Semitic name).

But some of the Hyksos did have Semitic names... according to Speiser et al. That being said, the Amorites are STILL being called Semites because of the language they may or may not have used. (Hammurabi's code came from Sumer, and was given the eye for an eye treatment, while the Sumerians asked for monetary compensation.) Nevertheless, the Amorites were giants compared to grasshoppers, and couldn't have been Semites.

I still say Ur of the Chaldees = Hr of Khaldis.

OtherSheep said:

That would matter if the Egyptians wrote that part of Genesis. The Semites of Akkadia borrowed the script of Sumer, and seem to have rewritten Sumerian texts into Akkadian. They seem to have done that last thing at Nuzi, too... ... However, generally speaking, H is an aspirate...

Do Jebusites show up on the Monuments? Some are seeming to say that the Hyksos built Jerusalem (which is not a Semitic name).

But some of the Hyksos did have Semitic names... according to Speiser et al. That being said, the Amorites are STILL being called Semites because of the language they may or may not have used. (Hammurabi's code came from Sumer, and was given the eye for an eye treatment, while the Sumerians asked for monetary compensation.) Nevertheless, the Amorites were giants compared to grasshoppers, and couldn't have been Semites.

I still say Ur of the Chaldees = Hr of Khaldis.

Click to expand...

I can't make the connection between Egyptians and Genesis.. The Hebrews were more likely to have created the Genesis after exposure to the Myths of Babylon and Sumer.

I always thought the Hyksos were Hurrian and/or Hittite who lived in Anatolia and Northern Mesopotamia. .. Not many horses in Palestine. The Mittani were a Hurrian nation.

sooda said:

I can't make the connection between Egyptians and Genesis.. The Hebrews were more likely to have created the Genesis after exposure to the Myths of Babylon and Sumer.

I always thought the Hyksos were Hurrian and/or Hittite who lived in Anatolia and Northern Mesopotamia. .. Not many horses in Palestine. The Mittani were a Hurrian nation.

Click to expand...

Almost forgot... Connect Egypt's Book of the Dead and the Wisdom Texts...

Mitanni were the Indo-European overlords... who used the language of the conquered Hurrians... Mitanni kings had Hurrian names. (Lesson learned)

There seemed to be a time when Hurro-Hittite was reality. And given the fact that the two had the same Gods and even looked the same... and their Gods are mentioned in Greek Legend as well as Sanchoniatho's History, and matched that of the Sumerians... with a difference in their names but not their characteristics. Baal of Palestine is Zeus of Crete. (People are too easily made to throw down the traditions of their own race... and Tradition becomes Legend and Legend becomes Myth.)

But if people realized that reading comprehension operates the same way whether the text is "fiction" or "non-fiction"... and that ALL PEOPLE's TRADITIONS are equal in value... and learned to despise the book burners... (sigh)

OtherSheep said:

Almost forgot... Connect Egypt's Book of the Dead and the Wisdom Texts...

Mitanni were the Indo-European overlords... who used the language of the conquered Hurrians... Mitanni kings had Hurrian names. (Lesson learned)

There seemed to be a time when Hurro-Hittite was reality. And given the fact that the two had the same Gods and even looked the same... and their Gods are mentioned in Greek Legend as well as Sanchoniatho's History, and matched that of the Sumerians... with a difference in their names but not their characteristics. Baal of Palestine is Zeus of Crete. (People are too easily made to throw down the traditions of their own race... and Tradition becomes Legend and Legend becomes Myth.)

But if people realized that reading comprehension operates the same way whether the text is "fiction" or "non-fiction"... and that ALL PEOPLE's TRADITIONS are equal in value... and learned to despise the book burners... (sigh)

Click to expand...

Who was the god of the Khaldis?? I am trying to follow. In fact, I wish you would start a thread on the Nuzi tablets ...



Nuzi was a Hurrian administrative center not far from the Hurrian capital at Kirkuk in northern Iraq. The Hurrians are equivalent to the Horites in the Old Testament, also called Hivites and Jebusites.

Excavations were carried out at Nuzi by American teams from 1925 to 1933.

The major find was more than 5,000 family and administrative archives spanning six generations, ca. 1450–1350 BC. They deal with the social, economic, religious and legal institutions of the Hurrians.

The tablets tell of practices similar to those in Genesis such as adoption for childless couples (Gn 15:2–3 ), children by proxy (Gn 16; 21:1–21), inheritance rights (Gn 25:29–34 ), marriage arrangements (Gn 28–31) and levirate marriage (Gn 38; Dt 25:5–10 ).

They also demonstrate the significance of the deathbed blessing (Gn 27; 48–49) and household gods (Gn 31:14–19 , 30–35 ).

Some Nuzi tablets, called “tablets of sistership,” have agreements in which a man adopted a woman as a sister. In the society of the Hurrians, a wife enjoyed both greater protection and a superior position when she also had the legal status of a sister. In such a case, two separate documents were drawn up, one for marriage and the other for sistership.

This may explain why both Abraham (Gn 12:10–13 ; 20:1–2 ) and Isaac (Gn 26:7 ) said their wives were their sisters. It is possible that they had previously adopted them to give them higher status, in accordance with the custom of the day.

Family records were highly valued at Nuzi, being passed down from father to son for as many as six generations. Nowhere else in the ancient Near East is this kind of reverence for family documents illustrated, except in the Old Testament.

Indirectly, the practice at Nuzi supports the position that Genesis and the other books of history in the Old Testament are grounded in actual family, clan and tribal records carefully passed from generation to generation.

As with Mari, the Nuzi records demonstrate that the cultural practices recorded in the book of Genesis are authentic. The accounts are not fictional stories written at a much later time, as some critics claim, since the customs were unknown in later periods.

And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.

And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son” (Gen 30:1-5 ).

Bilhah gave birth to two sons: Dan and Napthali. Jacob then slept with Leah’s handmaid, Zilpah, and she gave birth to two sons: Gad and Asher. This is another third of the 12.

Again, God allowed Leah to have two more boys, Issachar and Zebulun, as well as a girl, Dinah. He then allowed Rachel to become impregnated and she gave birth to Joseph.

This is now 11 of the 12 tribes of Israel. Dinah is not a part of the tribes, they have to be men. I mention her because there is much bloodshed later because of her.

Jacob was now ready to leave but Laban didn’t want him to.

“And it came to pass, when Rachel had born Joseph, that Jacob said unto Laban, Send me away, that I may go unto mine own place, and to my country.

Give me my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service, which I have done thee.

Rachel and Leah & Ancient City of Nuzi | "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending" (Rev 1:8).. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending" (Rev 1:8).. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending" (Rev 1:8).. %

sooda said:

Who was the god of the Khaldis?? I am trying to follow. In fact, I wish you would start a thread on the Nuzi tablets ...

Click to expand...

I'll look at the rest of this post later... but Kaldis is the Name of the God.

The Nuzi Tablets ... hasn't anyone here already made a thread? It's not new news. Maybe they don't want to hear that the Sumerians and now the Hurrians have a lot to do with the Bible en masse? Maybe they are more concerned with who wrote it, rather than Who wrote it? Or they just don't want to get called antisomethingorother. The pursuit of truth requires a thick skin.

sooda said:

Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

Click to expand...

Wow... I saw the Wiki post and dismissed it, without even reading it... sorry.
Wiki is... a good place to look at notes. Their "therefore" leaves much to be desired. Having read the discussions they have, it's a wonder they get that far.

But doesn't the above quote mean Abraham was NOT an Arabian Bedouin?

sooda said:

Nuzi was a Hurrian administrative center not far from the Hurrian capital at Kirkuk in northern Iraq. The Hurrians are equivalent to the Horites in the Old Testament, also called Hivites and Jebusites.
[. . .]
Indirectly, the practice at Nuzi supports the position that Genesis and the other books of history in the Old Testament are grounded in actual family, clan and tribal records carefully passed from generation to generation.

Click to expand...

Hurrian Jebusites, thank you ! ... (from biblearchaeology.org, "This article was first published in the Winter 2005 issue of Bible and Spade.")
But there's no indirectly about it. ... If the Hurrians at Nuzi kept the records, that history and those laws belong to the Hurrians, period.


Now... if you're looking for other source material, Ugarit is the place to go. Gordon, to whom everything was Semitic, wrote a book claiming the correlation between Greek and Hebrew history... taking both Homer and Ugarit through the wringer. But for some reason, Schaeffer's Ugaritica has yet to be translated into English. Isn't that enough reason for us to learn French? But many have written on the texts that match the Bible word for word, coming from Ugarit. ... Sanchoniatho says Baal owned that land. ... The Bible says Baal is the Semite enemy. But the Pelasgians call Baal :-- Zeus, God of the Bright Sky.

OtherSheep said:

Wow... I saw the Wiki post and dismissed it, without even reading it... sorry.
Wiki is... a good place to look at notes. Their "therefore" leaves much to be desired. Having read the discussions they have, it's a wonder they get that far.

But doesn't the above quote mean Abraham was NOT an Arabian Bedouin?



Hurrian Jebusites, thank you ! ... (from biblearchaeology.org, "This article was first published in the Winter 2005 issue of Bible and Spade.")
But there's no indirectly about it. ... If the Hurrians at Nuzi kept the records, that history and those laws belong to the Hurrians, period.


Now... if you're looking for other source material, Ugarit is the place to go. Gordon, to whom everything was Semitic, wrote a book claiming the correlation between Greek and Hebrew history... taking both Homer and Ugarit through the wringer. But for some reason, Schaeffer's Ugaritica has yet to be translated into English. Isn't that enough reason for us to learn French? But many have written on the texts that match the Bible word for word, coming from Ugarit. ... Sanchoniatho says Baal owned that land. ... The Bible says Baal is the Semite enemy. But the Pelasgians call Baal :-- Zeus, God of the Bright Sky.

Click to expand...

Here's my take,, If UR was in the south near modern day Basra, Abraham was probably an Arab from Eastern Saudi Arabia like the Marsh Arabs, If Ur or Urfa was in the north near Haran, he was likely Amorite or Hurrian.

sooda said:

Here's my take,, If UR was in the south near modern day Basra, Abraham was probably an Arab from Eastern Saudi Arabia like the Marsh Arabs, If Ur or Urfa was in the north near Haran, he was likely Amorite or Hurrian.

Click to expand...

As you've pointed out, Jerusalem was built by the Jebusites, which today are lumped together with the Horites and Hivites as Hurrians.

And I think we both agree that the Hurrians were at least part of the Hyksos (some of the names being Semite/Semite names being common among the Amorites.).

But if the Hyksos built Jerusalem, according to Manetho... riddle me this:
Why does Ezekiel say Jerusalem's mother and father are Amorite and Hittite?
unless Amorites and Hittites are also part of the Hyksos 'rulers of foreign lands'.

When we look at the monuments, the Kings and Land of 10-tribed North Israel become abundantly clear.
Judah, not so much.
So... Judah went on to write a history, and pretty much leaves out the 10 Northern Tribes called Israel who actually hold Title to Land of Israel, according to the Bible, due to the Divided Kingdom.
But Judah's portion was to be only the crown, which Ieseus now wears...
And Israel is the forgotten kingdom... which the monuments remember.

"Only six verses are given to Omri, the founder of the most celebrated dynasty of the north, the king by whose name Israel is known in Assyrian records."
--Finkelstein, The Forgotten Kingdom