If "the old serpent" is "RED" and BLUE", then red and blue are the serpent, who is the "devil".
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The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer. One in the same or Not?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
If "the old serpent" is "RED" and BLUE", then red and blue are the serpent, who is the "devil".
Skwim
Veteran Member
Obviously, in the analogy red and blue are colors. Just like a red and blue chevy isn't the car, but different colors of the car.
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Much like the amazing Hulk. He changes colors, but still resides in the same house, and eats the same food.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Tumah
Veteran Member
It's funny that you chose Chevies because pronouncing the 'ch' as in the German Bach, you get the modern pronunciation of the Aramaic word for "snake". The L-rd works in mysteeeeeeeeerious waysssssssss.
Ok, I need to go to sleep.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Lucifer is the king of babylon? How?
“Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.” [Isaiah 14:15-18]
^ has that happened yet?
(Isaiah 14:4) is a set up for Isaiah14:12, "O star of the morning".
Certainly not. It happens "when the LORD will have compassion of Jacob, and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land etc. (Isaiah 14:1-3). At this time, only Judah and Jerusalem has been "restored" (Joel 3:1).
I am not so sure. I own a white Chevy now, but I have owned a black Chevy in the past. Plus there is an auto paint shop just down the road from me. They seemed to be able to turn any Chevy, into any color. On the other hand, you can buy coffee mugs that change color by just adding coffee.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Where do the scriptures say Judah would be restored first?
“When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.” [Ezekiel 39:27-29]
Neither kingdom has been restored... those people in Israel are not the biblical Israelites and they themselves admit this... but that’s a different discussion.
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Those living in the nation of Israel, are of the tribe of Judah/Jews. They were given permission of entry per the Balfour Declaration in 1918. 50 years later all of Jerusalem was recaptured. 50 years after that brings us to today. This would be the fulfillment of Joel 3:1 with respect to Judah/Jews. Israel remains "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19). The have not been "gathered from the nations" and given a new heart and spirit (Ezekiel 36:24-26) They have not been combine with Judah, and have 1 king. (Ezekiel 37:15-28).
The judgment of nations, in the valley of judgment/Har-Magedon, follows the restoration of Judah (Joel 3:2). The gathering of "the whole house of Israel" follows the raising of the dead (Ezekiel 37:9-13). That has not happened. Judah and Ephraim are still under judgment (Hosea 5 & 6). Jerusalem must be "captured" (Zechariah 14:1-3) before the LORD comes to fight. At that time Judah and Ephraim/the house of Israel will "acknowledge their guilt" (Hosea 5:15) and be "healed" (Hosea 6:1-2).
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Tazarah
Well-Known Member
First of all, Luke 21:24 says that the Israelites would be led away as captives into all nations — when did this happen to the people in Israel? When did they fulfill the Luke 21:24 prophecy? Being led captive into all nations?
“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]
Secondly, the scriptures say that God will place the Israelites back into Israel himself. The scriptures say nothing about the UN, or a balfour declaration.
And on top of that, the scriptures say that both kingdoms will be gathered together, at the same time. It does not say that Judah will come first, or anything like that. Those people in Israel are not the biblical jews, they have not fulfilled any of the Israelite prophecy. Taking the holy land by force and labeling themselves as “jews” is not bible prophecy. They are not the biblical Israelites (see Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9).
“In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.” [Jeremiah 3:18]
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go.” [Jeremiah 50:33]
“Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.” [Hosea 1:11]
"First of all", Luke is a mish mash of 2nd hand stories from unnamed source (Luke 1:1-3). Second of all Luke 21:21, it starts out with a quote from Matthew 24:16, which is with regards to the "Great Tribulation", such as the "day of the LORD", which is "behind the door" (Matthew 24:33), and it centers around Judea, the home of Judah/Jews.
Ephraim (the house Israel), went into captivity around 700 BC by way of Assyria, and remains "scattered among the nations". Judah went into captivity much later by means of Babylon, and they have both remained separate (Zechariah11:14).
Judah/Jews, have mostly come out of the nations following the 1st and 2nd world wars, and set up the nation of Israel in Judea. The Jews are still fleeing the North/Europe because of persecution.
As for Ephraim (the house of Israel), being "crushed in judgment" (Hosea 5:11) and Judah being torn to pieces (Hosea 5:14), they have not been together. You might want to throw away your KJV if you think Ephraim and Judah are together at this time. If that were so, they wouldn't have to be reunited on the "land I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:24-25) under one leader.
As for your quote from Jeremiah 3:18, for when they come together, that will be after the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) when they have "acknowledged your iniquity" (Hosea 5:15), which is after 2 days (2000 years) (Hosea 6:2), when they call "Jerusalem 'the throne of the LORD' " (Jeremiah 3:17)
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Tazarah
Well-Known Member
You don’t like Luke 21:24? That’s fine, a lot of people don’t due to the fact that it makes it undoubtebly clear that the people in Israel are not the biblical Israelites.
Now look at what you just said — you said that the two kingdoms have never been in captivity together... and that is true. Except for right now, they are being oppressed together, like how Jeremiah 50:33 clearly says. Jeremiah 50:33 is obviously not talking about the past because the two kingdoms have never been in captivity together like you just said.
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go.” [Jeremiah 50:33]
So according to bible prophecy, both kingdoms would be oppressed/in captivity together until the time comes for them to leave and go back into the holy land. Bible prophecy does not say that Judah will go first, or vice-versa — prophecy says that they are both being oppressed together, and that they will leave the land that they are in together.
“In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.” [Jeremiah 3:18]
The people in Israel have not fulfilled Israelite prophecy, and they also have not fulfilled any of the prophetic curses (Deuteronomy 28:15-68) that the bible says would be on the Israelites as a sign forever (Deuteronomy 28:45-46).
The prophecy in Ezekiel regarding both kingdoms appointing one leader is going to happen after the prophecy in Jeremiah 3:18, once both kingdoms walk together into the holy land. Just like how Hosea 1:11 says. Prophecy does not say that Judah will return to the land first, or anything of the sort. Prophecy says that both kingdoms will leave captivity together > walk into the holy land together > appoint one head.
“Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.” [Hosea 1:11]
The israeli people are not the biblical jews — they themselves openly admit this in their encyclopedias, almanacs, and even in videos that can be found on the web.
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]
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I don't see Lucifer as having anything to do with "the devil" or Satan. Satan is associated with darkness. Lucifer is a title and has been attached to many beings and people, including Jesus. Personally I equate Apollo with Lucifer as He is associated with the Sun, spiritual light and truth. But that's my opinion based on my understanding of Luciferianism (the non-Satanic sort) and thinking He fits the bill the best. But I can certainly see how Jesus or Siddhartha can be called "light bearers". They fit the bill in their own ways. They're very similar concepts.
New American Standard Bible (Jeremiah 50:33)
Thus says the LORD of hosts, "The sons of Israel are oppressed, And the sons of Judah as well; And all who took them captive have held them fast, They have refused to let them go.
Your bible version seem to not fit with reality. Judah is now, and has been coming out of captivity, and Jerusalem is "restored" to fulfill Joel 3:1, whereas the house of Israel, per your Jeremiah 3:18, will come out after the "day of the LORD", when "all the nations will be gathered to it", per Jeremiah 3:17-18 & Zechariah 14:16-17. Jerusalem must be "restored" before it is "captured" inaugurating the "day of the LORD", when the LORD goes forth to fight (Zechariah 14:1-3). You seem to cling to your confusion. So be it.
The sun god Apollo, or Sol Invictus, or Bel are the gods(dragon) of the heads of the beasts, from whence comes the authority of the beasts (Revelation 13:4).
Too silly.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Different names, often used interchangeably. There is more than one evil entity, so, this occured just by language usage, and different traditions. So, actually, the same, and not the same, varying by context.
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Tazarah
Well-Known Member
What in the world are you talking about? The translation that you posted regarding Jeremiah 50:33 says literally the exact same thing as the KJV version.
Joel 3:1 is talking about future prophecy — you can’t just look at the first verse and then say “oh they fulfilled prophecy”.
“For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.” [Joel 3:1-2]
1. It says he will bring again the captivity. When were the israeli people ever in captivity?
2. How can both kingdoms walk out of captivity together (Jeremiah 3:18) and into the holy land together if Judah is already in the holy land?
3. You keep ignoring the fact that bible prophecy says that both kingdoms are being oppressed together (Jeremiah 50:33), which also proves that you are misinterpreting the verse in Joel 3:1 regarding the future restoration of the nation of Israel.
4. It says that God will bring Judah out of captivity as well as the house of Israel and that he will judge the nations while doing so.
When has that happened?
When has God ever came down to earth to plead with and judge the nations?
You mean to tell me that God came and put Judah into the holy land almost a whole entire century ago, without the northern kingdom? LOL. That is not what bible prophecy says is going to happen. Regardless of which translation you read the scriptures from, the people in Israel have not fulfilled Israelite prophecy.
Joel 3:1 has not happened yet. Everything that you are saying contradicts bible prophecy.
“In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.” [Jeremiah 3:18]
^ how are both kingdoms going to walk OUT of captivity together, and INTO the holy land together, if the southern kingdom is supposedly already in the holy land, and has been for 60+ years?