Is God Omnipresent?

Fool said:

i already explained as why i disagree. each bot makes a choice, the program knows what the choices were.

entanglement knows what choice was made; as if it made the choice itself

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I don't see how that modifies anything in consideration of time which is where the nullification of free will comes into play.

If the 'collective' is a pervasive connection throughout time, such that past me and current me and future me are all linked inasmuch as present me is linked with present you, this means that all of what leads to a choice, the choice itself and the results of choice are in actuality simultaneous and in fact all part of the very same event from the omnipresent perspective. As it is that our 'collective consciousness' is also conscious as you say, then on some higher order of existence, the collective is making all the choices with full, immediate awareness of cause and effect thereof. What we see as choice from an individual level is the barest fraction of what is actually being 'chosen'. What's actually being chosen by the collective is your (and everything else's) very existence in total from the beginning of time to the end if it, or at at least all throughout eternal skein of time as the case may be. That includes everything we see as a choice.

A human being's choice to pick up a Bible and read it, for example, has been made at the dawn of time and the end of time and at the moment it happens. Or more properly, somewhen completely beyond these terms to describe. Which means that the 'you' in that 'choice' is as much an illusion as the choice itself.

Bots have no will, by the way. Not the best analogy if you're trying to preserve free will.

shunyadragon said:

The problem is how you define Omnipresent. Most who believe God is literally everywhere in time and space

In my view God is not defined by time and space and being everywhere in space and time, God would be the spiritual equivalent of the Quantum World. God's existence is eternal and independent of our time and space physical existence, but determines the nature of our existence through natural Creation, which is eternal with God like the eternal Quantum World.

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Hello.

Panentheism (not pantheism)?

Peace.

Sir Doom said:

I don't see how that modifies anything in consideration of time which is where the nullification of free will comes into play.

If the 'collective' is a pervasive connection throughout time, such that past me and current me and future me are all linked inasmuch as present me is linked with present you, this means that all of what leads to a choice, the choice itself and the results of choice are in actuality simultaneous and in fact all part of the very same event from the omnipresent perspective. As it is that our 'collective consciousness' is also conscious as you say, then on some higher order of existence, the collective is making all the choices with full, immediate awareness of cause and effect thereof. What we see as choice from an individual level is the barest fraction of what is actually being 'chosen'. What's actually being chosen by the collective is your (and everything else's) very existence in total from the beginning of time to the end if it, or at at least all throughout eternal skein of time as the case may be. That includes everything we see as a choice.

A human being's choice to pick up a Bible and read it, for example, has been made at the dawn of time and the end of time and at the moment it happens. Or more properly, somewhen completely beyond these terms to describe. Which means that the 'you' in that 'choice' is as much an illusion as the choice itself.

Bots have no will, by the way. Not the best analogy if you're trying to preserve free will.

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there is no past, future, time is an illusion. for the singularity it is now. it's part could only experience spatial and time difference because of juxtaposition of this vs that. the whole cannot know that except from it's pluralities. there is nothing to contrast it to


Swarm intelligence - Wikipedia

sealchan said:

I think your reasoning is sound especially if you think along the lines of a computer simulation that also knows the state of every variable in the system. But even a simulation, which runs in the reality which it is more or less mimicking, is confined by restraints of time and energy consumption, even heat or entropy limiting computational power.

But such things for the faithful are good for thought but not barriers hard to overcome if given a sufficient scope for their imaginations.

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Why does it have to be a simulation? Why can't "God" be real? Why can't the "Mind of God" simply be the complete physical/natural explanation of the state of the entire universe at any given time?

Fool said:

there is no past, future, time is an illusion. for the singularity it is now.

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So being not pervasive throughout time, then? In which case the answer is: No, God is not Omnipresent.

it's part could only experience spatial and time difference because of juxtaposition of this vs that. the whole cannot know that except from it's pluralities. there is nothing to contrast it to

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Exactly, meaning free will is an illusion. What we see as making a decision and witnessing results is not a true picture of it at all. It's nothing at all like that.

Swarm intelligence - Wikipedia

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Thanks, it's such a complex and new term. This article doesn't indicate anything you are saying, by the way. I don't know why people do that.

Fool said:

another one for you


be still and know that I AM god. i will be exalted among the nations, i will be exalted in the flesh


And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

can be read


and i heard a great voice out of heaven saying, behold the temple of man is the house of god, and immanuel shall be with the people, and god itself will be their god.

this is why it is written.


you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill cannot be hid; which is the new jerusalem. is self

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Well your still running around in circles.
So what other contradictions do you have

Faithofchristian said:

No one's arguing about God being Omnipotent, All powerful.

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I believe Omnipotence implies Omnipresence. To assert otherwise is to put limits on God's powers.

Regiomontanus said:

Hello.

Panentheism (not pantheism)?

Peace.

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Actually no. I compared God to spiritual equivalent to the Quantum world. If I proposed that the Quantum World or our physical existence was in some form God this would be Pantheism.

Panentheism comes close, but my views is that God cannot be defined in the positive way that panentheism may be interpreted. Most definitions describe panentheism as 'including?' the universe or 'interpenetrating?' the universe. The emphasis the belief of God's presence in our time and space frame of reference, but remaining distinct from our time and space frame comes close.

Our physical existence including the underlying Quantum World would an eternal product of Creation and a reflection of the attributes of God, but our physical existence does not 'include' God. God would by God's nature separate and not definable in terms of our time/space frame of reference.

This would be pure Monotheism from the apophatic perspective.

Fool said:

If 2 or more people are gathered together, yoked, in my name, is love there? are they of one mind?

exodus 3:14


I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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I haven't decided yet if I should grant my God to be omnipresent, although aligning myself with such an entity might not be a bad idea, imagine the bragging rights.

Faithofchristian said:

Well your still running around in circles.
So what other contradictions do you have

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Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Fool said:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

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What you gave here, how does it tie in with God as being Omnipresent ?

Faithofchristian said:

What you gave here, how does it tie in with God as being Omnipresent ?

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the name of the father is to be, or i am 1st person

Fool said:

the name of the father is to be, or i am 1st person

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What you gave, still doesn't say anything about God as being Omnipresent.

In the book of Revelation 19:6----"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth"

Revelation 19:6, is the only place in the whole bible where you can find the word
( Omnipotent)
Which only means ( Omnipotent definition, almighty or infinite in power, as God.

Now let's take the word ( Omnipresent)
Which by definition, means ---- God would be present everywhere at the same time.

For this to be true, Then how's comes God didn't know about Sodom and Gomorrah ?

Genesis 18:20-21--"
"And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know"

Why would God need to come here to see Sodom and Gomorrah, if God is to be Omnipresent, Every Where at the same time.
Wouldn't God had known already, without coming down here to see Sodom and
Gomorrah ?

If God is to be Omnipresent, every where at the same time ?
That means God would haved known without coming down here to see Sodom and Gomorrah.

Notice Verse 21 at the bottom of the Verse God saying ( Which is come unto me, and if not, I will know)
It looks like God stating that he didn't know, until he came down here to see.

Therefore for God to be Omnipresent, than God would have known without coming down here to see Sodom and Gomorrah.

But this is not the case, God didn't know about Sodom and Gomorrah, until God came down here to see.
So that cancels out God as being Omnipresent, Every Where at the same time.

Which God said ( which is come unto me, and if not, I will know)

Wouldn't God had already known, about Sodom and Gomorrah without coming down here, Seeing that God is to be Omnipresent, As being Every Where at the same time ?

Faithofchristian said:

What you gave, still doesn't say anything about God as being Omnipresent.

In the book of Revelation 19:6----"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth"

Revelation 19:6, is the only place in the whole bible where you can find the word
( Omnipotent)
Which only means ( Omnipotent definition, almighty or infinite in power, as God.

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to be is present tense. to be present in all things is omni-all + present.

the word kenosis wasn't created until years later, 1800s. that doesn't mean the idea wasn't understood even if there is no word initially describing it.

kenosis

Philippians 2:17
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Kenosis - Wikipedia


jesus was impotent; when people didn't believe.


And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.


eternal, infinite, endless and everlasting are all synonyms.

they were all coined at different times through history.

everlasting is from the 13c it is used in the OT and NT. more often in the OT than the NT
eternal is from the 14c. it is used in both the OT and NT, more often the NT than the OT
infinite is from the 1850's. it isn't used in either the OT or NT.
endless is unknown as to its date of origin. it is only used in the NT


so during the 1st century, what word do you suppose was used to reflect the idea of without limit?