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The Mystery

rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Rom 16:25-26,

25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

1Cor 2:7-10,

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.​

Eph 3:3-5,

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

Col 1:26,

[Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
​
All of above verses are from the letters of Paul to the churches. All make mention of a mystery. In all these verses it says this mystery had been kept secret until Paul made it known. Indeed, the Greek word used for mystery is musterion which is better translated as secret. A mystery may never be known to anybody, but a secret can be known once it is revealed.
  • Before Paul nobody knew the secret (Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:9, Eph 3:5, Col 1:26).
  • God revealed it to Paul (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 2:10, Eph 3:5, ol 1:26).
  • Paul who in turn wrote it down for all to see (Rom 16:25, "according to my [Paul's] gospel").
Do any churches teach the mystery, or secret, God revealed to Paul?

What is this mystery? Please don't guess. Give chapter and verse. It is spelled out quite clearly in the Bible as to what this secret is.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
rrobs said:
Rom 16:25-26,

25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

1Cor 2:7-10,

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.​

Eph 3:3-5,

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

Col 1:26,

[Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
​
All of above verses are from the letters of Paul to the churches. All make mention of a mystery. In all these verses it says this mystery had been kept secret until Paul made it known. Indeed, the Greek word used for mystery is musterion which is better translated as secret. A mystery may never be known to anybody, but a secret can be known once it is revealed.
  • Before Paul nobody knew the secret (Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:9, Eph 3:5, Col 1:26).
  • God revealed it to Paul (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 2:10, Eph 3:5, ol 1:26).
  • Paul who in turn wrote it down for all to see (Rom 16:25, "according to my [Paul's] gospel").
Do any churches teach the mystery, or secret, God revealed to Paul?

What is this mystery? Please don't guess. Give chapter and verse. It is spelled out quite clearly in the Bible as to what this secret is.
Click to expand...

There is no chapter and verse. And since the writer didn't spell it out for us, we are sadly left to guess.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
There is no chapter and verse. And since the writer didn't spell it out for us, we are sadly left to guess.
Click to expand...
God never leaves us to guess regarding who He is and what He did for us.

The writer did spell it out quite specifically. Like I said, it's somewhere in the seven church epistles. It'll take a little time to read Romans through Thesselonians, but it's there.

Don't worry, I wouldn't lead you on a wild goose chase. You'll find it. Just read very carefully, and it'll jump out at you. If it were a snake, it'd bite you!
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
rrobs said:
God never leaves us to guess regarding who He is and what He did for us.

The writer did spell it out quite specifically. Like I said, it's somewhere in the seven church epistles. It'll take a little time to read Romans through Thesselonians, but it's there.

Don't worry, I wouldn't lead you on a wild goose chase. You'll find it. Just read very carefully, and it'll jump out at you. If it were a snake, it'd bite you!
Click to expand...

That usually is the case isn't it.:rolleyes: The "snake biting you" thing that is.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
That usually is the case isn't it.:rolleyes: The "snake biting you" thing that is.
Click to expand...
Yup. Once you see something, you know it's there.

If you get frustrated, I'll send you the verse privately. Wouldn't want to give it away to anybody here who likes to hunt through the scriptures though. Let me know...God bless
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
Do they? Many claim to. Do you believe that a particular one does? If so, why?
Click to expand...
I've never heard a teaching on it. Of course, I've not been to all churches every Sunday, so perhaps I missed it. However, judging from the lack of Christians who can explain the mystery Paul revealed to us, I'd say that very few teach it. It's funny because it's the absolute crux of Christianity. Every Christian in existence should know beyond a doubt what the mystery is. They should know it better than they know their own name!

Remember that in the OT, Israel was God's chosen people. Gentiles were out of luck. There's a hint for you as to what Paul's mystery is. Like I said, somewhere in Paul's letters, it's stated what the mystery is as explicitly as anything could be.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
Ephesians 3:6
Click to expand...
Ephesians 3:6 it is. Plain as day! Ephesians chapter 2 goes into a little detail.

Eph 2:11-22,

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Imagine, Christians are being built together for a temple where God lives. He's not in the tabernacle any more. He's in us (Col 1:26-27). What a truth that is!

I'm curious, where did you learn of the mystery (if you don't mind telling me)?

God bless....​
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
rrobs said:
God never leaves us to guess regarding who He is and what He did for us.
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with his mystery? In any case, as you pointed out In Romans 16:26, the mystery is well known.

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

​
But perhaps only to those who qualify. Maybe you simply don't qualify and, as they say, need to get your house in order :shrug:

.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
What does this have to do with his mystery? In any case, as you pointed out In Romans 16:26, the mystery is well known.

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

​
But perhaps only to those who qualify. Maybe you simply don't qualify and, as they say, need to get your house in order :shrug:

.
Click to expand...
Nope. Romans 16:26 talks about the mystery, but it's explicitly defined elsewhere.

Question: if you are agnostic, why do you reply to my biblical posts?
 
Earthling

Earthling

David Henson
rrobs said:
Ephesians 3:6 it is. Plain as day! Ephesians chapter 2 goes into a little detail.

Eph 2:11-22,

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Imagine, Christians are being built together for a temple where God lives. He's not in the tabernacle any more. He's in us (Col 1:26-27). What a truth that is!

I'm curious, where did you learn of the mystery (if you don't mind telling me)?

God bless....​
Click to expand...

Well, when I first started to study the Bible I recall, perhaps incorrectly, the JW's mentioning the sacred secret or mystery. Now, the way I remember it, and this is possibly due to my faulty memory, is that it was that Jesus demonstrated that Adam didn't have to sin. In fact, I mentioned this in a post I made here recently. But in a separate post also made here recently I repeated something a JW had told me when I first started to study that proved to be untrue. Namely, that shepherds would break the legs of sheep to keep them from wandering. So, I thought I better look it up. It took about 3 minutes to find it in my Watchtower Library. By doing a search on mystery. The results of which was the Insight Book entry of Sacred Secret. Then I read the verses you gave and saw that Ephesians 3:3-5 that you gave had the answer in the following verse.

So it took about maybe 5 minutes.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
rrobs said:
Rom 16:25-26,

25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

1Cor 2:7-10,

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.​

Eph 3:3-5,

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

Col 1:26,

[Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
​
All of above verses are from the letters of Paul to the churches. All make mention of a mystery. In all these verses it says this mystery had been kept secret until Paul made it known. Indeed, the Greek word used for mystery is musterion which is better translated as secret. A mystery may never be known to anybody, but a secret can be known once it is revealed.
  • Before Paul nobody knew the secret (Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:9, Eph 3:5, Col 1:26).
  • God revealed it to Paul (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 2:10, Eph 3:5, ol 1:26).
  • Paul who in turn wrote it down for all to see (Rom 16:25, "according to my [Paul's] gospel").
Do any churches teach the mystery, or secret, God revealed to Paul?

What is this mystery? Please don't guess. Give chapter and verse. It is spelled out quite clearly in the Bible as to what this secret is.
Click to expand...
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When a mystery is finished, it is no longer a mystery.
God had scripture written "here a little, there a little" so that it would require in-depth study -similar to how only those who had an ear understood Christ. God also told Daniel that certain things were not to be understood until the end.
The mystery of God is just that -God's nature, his plan, etc.

For example.... Though these things have been written for thousands of years, few have understood -especially the "big picture" -or have rightly divided the word of God to gain a complete understanding of all subjects relating to God and his plan -but they were to be understood completely in the end times.

That is not to say all will understand at that time -as it states in Daniel that the wise will understand, but the foolish will not -some will know their God and some will not. Many will be deceived even as the mystery is revealed to those God calls.

Many popular beliefs, observances and practices are not scriptural at all -and what will become of all of us is not widely understood. Those are some parts of the mystery of God.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Etritonakin said:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When a mystery is finished, it is no longer a mystery.
God had scripture written "here a little, there a little" so that it would require in-depth study -similar to how only those who had an ear understood Christ. God also told Daniel that certain things were not to be understood until the end.
The mystery of God is just that -God's nature, his plan, etc.

For example.... Though these things have been written for thousands of years, few have understood -especially the "big picture" -or have rightly divided the word of God to gain a complete understanding of all subjects relating to God and his plan -but they were to be understood completely in the end times.

That is not to say all will understand at that time -as it states in Daniel that the wise will understand, but the foolish will not -some will know their God and some will not. Many will be deceived even as the mystery is revealed to those God calls.

Many popular beliefs, observances and practices are not scriptural at all -and what will become of all of us is not widely understood. Those are some parts of the mystery of God.
Click to expand...
The mystery in the book of revelations is not the same mystery, or secret, as Paul's.
Revelations is written to and for Israel. Revelations is the fulfillment of all the promises God made to Israel regarding a king and a kingdom. Revelations is specifically written to and for Israel, not for born again believers.

The mystery of Paul is succinctly stated in Ephesians 2:11 through 3:6. If you take the time to carefully read, better to study even, those verses. What they basically say is the following:

In the Old Testament the Jews were God's chosen people. They were promised a kingdom in a fertile land as well as everlasting peace. All in all, God had plans for Israel. However, He had nothing for the Gentiles. Basically, to be a Gentile meant to be without God. Like Ephesians says, they were without God and without hope.

Then came Jesus. He came to set up the kingdom, but the people didn't want it. In fact, they rejected it in no uncertain terms by having the king killed. No king, no kingdom. Does that mean God's promise of their own kingdom was dashed to pieces? That would be a major no! However, he did put his plan for Israel on hold. He actually said he'll be back and finish the job later. That would be Revelations.

So what does God do between Israel's rejection of the king and the day he'll finish performing all the promises he made to Israel? He turns his attention to the rest of mankind, those who are not descended from Israel, i.e. the Gentiles. That, my friend, is the mystery God gave to Paul. Paul's letters teach us that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. Both of us, together, are being built into a house for God. He is no longer in the Jewish tabernacle. He dwells within each and every born again believer (Col 1:27). It's a different ball game altogether in this age of grace, where God, through Jesus Christ, made us worthy to have eternal life. The law makes no one worthy. Nothing wrong with the law. The problem is in man's utter failure to follow that law. The law made no one perfect. Grace makes us as righteous as God himself (Rom 3:22).

When this age of grace is over, God will return his attention to Israel. He'll fulfill all the promises He made to them in the Old Testament which is the very subject of Revelations.

Christians will be spared from the wrath to come (1 Thes 1:10). Before Revelations begins, Christians will have been gathered together to meet the Lord in the air to be at his side from that day forward on (1 Thes 4:17). Where do you suppose we will be when Christ appears again? According to 1 Thes 4:17 we will be right there with him. Interesting to ponder on all of that. But then, anything God says is interesting to ponder!

In order to get a continuity of God's plan for redemption, it helps to see that to get the whole story of Israel, one needs to read from the end of the Gospel of John right on to Revelations. Skip everything in between. That is a complete story in itself. However, within that story of Israel, is another story altogether. That story is the very heart of the Paul's mystery and of God's will for all born again believers. It is told in Acts through Jude. Your Bible will make a lot more sense if you see this.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
rrobs said:
The mystery in the book of revelations is not the same mystery, or secret, as Paul's.
Revelations is written to and for Israel. Revelations is the fulfillment of all the promises God made to Israel regarding a king and a kingdom. Revelations is specifically written to and for Israel, not for born again believers.

The mystery of Paul is succinctly stated in Ephesians 2:11 through 3:6. If you take the time to carefully read, better to study even, those verses. What they basically say is the following:

In the Old Testament the Jews were God's chosen people. They were promised a kingdom in a fertile land as well as everlasting peace. All in all, God had plans for Israel. However, He had nothing for the Gentiles. Basically, to be a Gentile meant to be without God. Like Ephesians says, they were without God and without hope.

Then came Jesus. He came to set up the kingdom, but the people didn't want it. In fact, they rejected it in no uncertain terms by having the king killed. No king, no kingdom. Does that mean God's promise of their own kingdom was dashed to pieces? That would be a major no! However, he did put his plan for Israel on hold. He actually said he'll be back and finish the job later. That would be Revelations.

So what does God do between Israel's rejection of the king and the day he'll finish performing all the promises he made to Israel? He turns his attention to the rest of mankind, those who are not descended from Israel, i.e. the Gentiles. That, my friend, is the mystery God gave to Paul. Paul's letters teach us that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. Both of us, together, are being built into a house for God. He is no longer in the Jewish tabernacle. He dwells within each and every born again believer (Col 1:27). It's a different ball game altogether in this age of grace, where God, through Jesus Christ, made us worthy to have eternal life. The law makes no one worthy. Nothing wrong with the law. The problem is in man's utter failure to follow that law. The law made no one perfect. Grace makes us as righteous as God himself (Rom 3:22).

When this age of grace is over, God will return his attention to Israel. He'll fulfill all the promises He made to them in the Old Testament which is the very subject of Revelations.

Christians will be spared from the wrath to come (1 Thes 1:10). Before Revelations begins, Christians will have been gathered together to meet the Lord in the air to be at his side from that day forward on (1 Thes 4:17). Where do you suppose we will be when Christ appears again? According to 1 Thes 4:17 we will be right there with him. Interesting to ponder on all of that. But then, anything God says is interesting to ponder!

In order to get a continuity of God's plan for redemption, it helps to see that to get the whole story of Israel, one needs to read from the end of the Gospel of John right on to Revelations. Skip everything in between. That is a complete story in itself. However, within that story of Israel, is another story altogether. That story is the very heart of the Paul's mystery and of God's will for all born again believers. It is told in Acts through Jude. Your Bible will make a lot more sense if you see this.
Click to expand...
Any individual mystery would be part of the overall mystery of God spoken of in Revelation, and Revelation includes things about a great multitude of all nations -not just Israel. No time to comment on the rest.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Problem is, Paul didn’t write Ephesians. So Paul could not have revealed the mystery he talks about in the letters he did write.
 
rrobs

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Etritonakin said:
Any individual mystery would be part of the overall mystery of God spoken of in Revelation, and Revelation includes things about a great multitude of all nations -not just Israel. No time to comment on the rest.
Click to expand...
Nations (Gentiles), yes. But the mystery says God made one new man from both Jew and Gentile. He specifically said that in this age of grace there is no Jew or Gentile. We are called the body of Christ. Revelations deals with the bride of Christ, Israel. So while Revelations does indeed speak of the nations, it's not talking about us. If you are interested I'll show you some scriptures to support my belief. It's pretty simple.
 
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