It all adds up and i must say it gives me the chills

the Jewish study i am making keeps surprising me every day.
I might say it is at times in debate with other religions and at times it is similar (interpretation wise).

there are some things that seem far from a lucky guess.

I have a very honest question to Christians. do you accept the literal words of the Hebrew bible as stories that describe events or as a myth told to "better explain" the abilities god has?

There is a follow up question based on your answer
Thanks

Segev Moran said:

ss.

I have a very honest question to Christians. do you accept the literal words of the Hebrew bible as stories that describe events or as a myth told to "better explain" the abilities god has?

Click to expand...

No. The first chapters of the Genesis are clearly a selective reconstruction of Mesopotamian mythology.
Personally, I don't believe God has the power to destroy human lives, so, I think it deals with historical events, most of them legendary, which "imagine" a divine intervention, sometimes negative, sometimes positive.

And this is said even by Catholic priests.

Estro Felino said:

No. The first chapters of the Genesis are clearly a selective reconstruction of Mesopotamian mythology.
Personally, I don't believe God has the power to destroy human lives, so, I think it deals with historical events, most of them legendary, which "imagine" a divine intervention, sometimes negative, sometimes positive.

And this is said even by Catholic priests.

Click to expand...

But do you accept the Jewish religion based on this book?
(accept not as a Jewish, rather think the Jewish religion that is based on present real ideas? that god gave the tora to mosses, the flood and things like that? (even if it was a mythological reference to a believed god).

In other words, do you think the Christianity is really derived from Judaism?

Estro Felino said:

No. The first chapters of the Genesis are clearly a selective reconstruction of Mesopotamian mythology.
Personally, I don't believe God has the power to destroy human lives, so, I think it deals with historical events, most of them legendary, which "imagine" a divine intervention, sometimes negative, sometimes positive.

And this is said even by Catholic priests.

Click to expand...

and Mesopotamian story is a reconstruction of a reconstruction back into history. my guess based on events we know are true noahs ark is 12,000 17000 years old. its a population bottleneck story and the causality of the event is nature. There is no literal separation from god and nature in pre literate culture .Nature, god, cosmos is all the same thing. that is pretty simple actually. these are not literal news reports and very very old.

Segev Moran said:

But do you accept the Jewish religion based on this book?
(accept not as a Jewish, rather think the Jewish religion that is based on present real ideas? that god gave the tora to mosses, the flood and things like that? (even if it was a mythological reference to a believed god).

In other words, do you think the Christianity is really derived from Judaism?

Click to expand...

A Christian has a particular vision of God...which is not anthropomorphic. God is seen as Logos, Wisdom, Law, Justice.
The Christian event is an anthropological event, and takes place because the Jews represent, with their history and knowledge, the fullness of times, because they had reached that degree of divine awareness.
This awareness manifests itself in the Torah..as well...but certainly, it's a self-awareness, it doesn't come from above...because God doesn't intervene in history.

The divine and the human are not separated.

Estro Felino said:

A Christian has a particular vision of God...which is not anthropomorphic. God is seen as Logos, Wisdom, Law, Justice.
The Christian event is an anthropological event, and takes place because the Jews represent, with their history and knowledge, the fullness of times, because they had reached that degree of divine awareness.
This awareness manifests itself in the Torah..as well...but certainly, it's a self-awareness, it doesn't come from above...because God doesn't intervene in history.

The divine and the human are not separated.

Click to expand...

Thanks,
But it appears you are a deist and i am more interested in the theist christian pov.
I mean those who believe god is an active god.
Thanks for your answer though

Segev Moran said:

I have a very honest question to Christians. do you accept the literal words of the Hebrew bible as stories that describe events or as a myth told to "better explain" the abilities god has?

Click to expand...

Hmm ... I accept as true stories the ones that claim to be true stories. However they are also written in such a way and the events transpire in such a way that it is allegorical. As even Paul said in Galatians 4:24.

Segev Moran said:

...
I have a very honest question to Christians. do you accept the literal words of the Hebrew bible as stories that describe events or as a myth told to "better explain" the abilities god has?

Click to expand...

I believe what the Bible tells, literally. But some of the writings are metaphors or parables, and in those case, I think it is clearly stated in the Bible.

The stories, histories, sciences of the Torah are attempts at accuracy and efficiency; all of them fall short of complete accuracy and efficiency.

1213 said:

But some of the writings are metaphors or parables, and in those case, I think it is clearly stated in the Bible.

Click to expand...

How do you distinguish between what is literal and what not?
Can you present an example?

74x12 said:

Hmm ... I accept as true stories the ones that claim to be true stories. However they are also written in such a way and the events transpire in such a way that it is allegorical. As even Paul said in Galatians 4:24.

Click to expand...

Would you say the words of god as presented in the verses (starting with and god said) are true or metaphors?

Segev Moran said:

How do you distinguish between what is literal and what not?
Can you present an example?

Click to expand...

For example, like in this:

He spoke to them many things in parables, saying, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow....
Matt. 13:3…

That clearly tells that now the saying is parable.

Segev Moran said:

the Jewish study i am making keeps surprising me every day.
I might say it is at times in debate with other religions and at times it is similar (interpretation wise).

there are some things that seem far from a lucky guess.

I have a very honest question to Christians. do you accept the literal words of the Hebrew bible as stories that describe events or as a myth told to "better explain" the abilities god has?

There is a follow up question based on your answer
Thanks

Click to expand...

The Hebrew Bible is absolutely true. I truly love it.

CLee421 said:

The Hebrew Bible is absolutely true. I truly love it.

Click to expand...

Oh and regarding literal etc - there is history, genealogy, poetry, prophecy and more. It just takes context to see what you are reading.

Segev Moran said:

Would you say the words of god as presented in the verses (starting with and god said) are true or metaphors?

Click to expand...

God spoke in terms and words humans know; but the meaning is not necessarily what we think at first glance. (I made a thread saying we can't understand the scriptures without God.) All the scriptures are perfectly true but not all are yet revealed. Many of the things written are veiled. Just looking at the nature of God we find that He chooses a house that is progressively more and more holy. That is set apart. And the access to the holier areas becomes increasingly restricted and difficult to access. The final room was only accessible through a blood sacrifice once a year and is kept in complete darkness year round because of a curtain. God's Word is like that; where God shows deeper and deeper things in it. The things of God are "dark" that is to mean that they are not revealed. Hidden. And must be shown by God who sends the "spirit of wisdom" and the "spirit of understanding". Which enables people to "comprehend the words of the wise and their riddles". But it's not hopeless because the first thing God said was "Let there be Light". So the revelation is there from the first.

1 Kings 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

But I'm curious what is so surprising to you in your studies? Can you explain yet or do we have to wait? You've left us in the dark.

1213 said:

For example, like in this:

He spoke to them many things in parables, saying, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow....
Matt. 13:3…

That clearly tells that now the saying is parable.

Click to expand...

An example from the Hebrew bible i meant

CLee421 said:

The Hebrew Bible is absolutely true. I truly love it.

Click to expand...

You mean absolutely as in each literal word?

Segev Moran said:

You mean absolutely as in each literal word?

Click to expand...

I tried addressing that in my second comment - "..and regarding literal etc - there is history, genealogy, poetry, prophecy and more. It just takes context to see what you are reading."

74x12 said:

God spoke in terms and words humans know; but the meaning is not necessarily what we think at first glance.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate?
I can't understand what you mean here.

When asking Abraham to sacrifice his kid, i can understand the verse in many ways. bad ones and good ones, yet they are just that. interpretations.

(which, btw, i have a full understanding of the logic behind the request)

The question is do you believe that god literally said it to Abraham or not?

All the scriptures are perfectly true but not all are yet revealed.

Click to expand...

Sorry, i cant understand what you are saying.
If they are not revealed, how do you know they are true?

nature of God

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What do you mean?

holy.

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What do you mean when saying holy? (sorry for all the questions, its just that i have a very specific understanding of the word and i want to make sure i understand you correctly

restricted and difficult to access.

Click to expand...

By who? Where did you get this notion?

The final room

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What room?

curtain.

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???

God's Word is like that; where God shows deeper and deeper things in it. The things of God are "dark" that is to mean that they are not revealed.

Click to expand...

Can you give an example?
I am not really sure i understand.

"spirit of wisdom"

Click to expand...

?

"spirit of understanding"

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??

But I'm curious what is so surprising to you in your studies? Can you explain yet or do we have to wait? You've left us in the dark.

Click to expand...

Many things.
Mostly those who are in parallel with our current scientific knowledge and discoveries.

I thought I would get a question!