Aegyptopithecus

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

That doesn't mean anything. The same could have been said for squids or whales in the past. You know what the concept of God is, if you had to face evidence that he existed it wouldn't change your opinion of him. If God is the monster atheist often claim he is would that change your willingness to accept his promise of everlasting life in paradise because you had evidence?

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I find it very odd that you bring up the "promise of everlasting life" here when it is almost never a significant factor in any reason why an atheist rejects the idea of God. It's almost as if the concept of an eternal life is the real deciding factor in deciding what you want to be true.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

Most atheists don't like the idea of a God dictating to them how to live their lives, even in paradise. So reject God and live your life. Why waste a minute of your precious time arguing about it. You're not telling the children that Santa isn't true, if you have children you are probably telling them the lie.

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The difference is that children tend to grow out of believing in Santa, and there aren't millions of politically active children who are attempting to force their Santa-based beliefs into law or use them to dictate the rights of others, and there aren't multiple nations in the world oppressing women and minority groups on the basis of what they believe Santa told them to do.

sayak83 said:

You seem to have a very extreme view of most things, believing that most of what is generally thought about the world, society, politics or current affairs is wrong. You claim to have glimpsed truths that undermine all of that. I personally believe you to be dead wrong about this. So, I am curious again, how did you come to such conclusions?

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For extreme, you can hardly beat, "It boils down to world view".

Them glimpses of undermining Truth is heady
stuff!!!

Alexander cut no cleaner when he defeated the Gordian knot:

All the research, all the data in the known universe
is defeated at a single stroke. "boils down to world view".

WHY dont people ever think to use that in court?

Subduction Zone said:

It is much more than a world view. That is all that you have. Please don't make the error of assuming that is all that your opposition has.



Nice reinterpretation of the Bible. But that is why apologists are held in such low regard by rational thinkers.



No, the problem is that the God of the Bible is a rather wicked being. If he was real only the immoral could worship him. Though apologists will dishonestly attempt to reinterpret the Bible so he does not seem so. Also since the Bible is highly contradictory the only logical conclusion is that the God of the Bible does not exist.



Save the amateur analysis. You are once again assuming others have your flaws.



Perhaps you should ask first and judge later. Most Christians claim their God is omnipotent. Atheists tend to point out how that makes God evil.




oh my, going off the deep end now.



the problem is that you keep proving you do not have that ability.



And totally gone. Why do you hate so much?

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As a fictional character, god certainly has a very evil
side to him.

This is something that our religious friends dont seem
to grasp.

Part I

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

What it boils down to is world view. You have come to the conclusion that evolution is a fact and I have come to the conclusion that we were created.

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As I said, I think both can be true. I see no reason why one view contradicts the other. God's powers has no limitations.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

I was presented some information which I thought was silly.

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Information is very contextual meaning depending on perspective certain ideas will make perfect sense. Then change your perspective and the same ideas seem silly. I think you are too hard on yourself in figuring out what you believe is truth. Sometimes what we think is truth is really opinion.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

The supernatural. There are things in the Bible hard to believe.

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The supernatural stuff in the Bible doesn't bother me. I think the essential message of the Bible is the importance of having morality. The other side-show stuff is irrelevant.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

You know what the concept of God is, if you had to face evidence that he existed it wouldn't change your opinion of him. If God is the monster atheist often claim he is would that change your willingness to accept his promise of everlasting life in paradise because you had evidence? Most atheists don't like the idea of a God dictating to them how to live their lives, even in paradise. So reject God and live your life. Why waste a minute of your precious time arguing about it. You're not telling the children that Santa isn't true, if you have children you are probably telling them the lie.

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We used to tell our boys if they did not start behaving better we would put the "flag" up so Santa would not come to our house.

There are many forms of belief. You might find this video interesting about the collapse of belief systems and nihilism. Many atheists are nihilist even though many will not admit it:


My concept of God is probably a little different than yours. Since the source of all evil is man made so I don't think God cares one way or the other. If we crap in own bed it is up to us to clean it up. I think based on human experiments there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. In terms of getting into Heaven, I think everyone gets to go through the gates. Now you may think this is not fair or unjust, but I think justice only comes from us. If we want justice in the World it is up to man to have it. My belief and faith is in an omnipotent God of unconditional love who allows us to enter the gates of Heaven to experience eternal bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced our religion. I just don't think all the billions of Chinese that have lived are all going to go to Hell because they haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Now I may be wrong and I will find out soon enough. But for now, my faith in a all-powerful God of unconditional love cannot be shaken. Unconditional love means no conditions. However, as I've said, the essential message of the Bible around the importance of being moral is still a message I believe is very important. I just think an all-powerful God needs absolutely nothing from us. And an all-powerful God would use his unlimited powers to forgive us and love us no matter what. Having morality is really just important to the having quality around community.

I think it is petty and immature to hope people will suffer in Hell for all eternity under the delusion that there would be justice in the afterlife. I think if we want justice, now is the time. Once we die we will be too busy staring into the face of God experiencing eternally Heavenly bliss to care about anything else. Isn't that better and just good news. Everyone makes it into heaven no matter what like a participation award. Now we don't have to worry about loved ones going to Hell.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

So it isn't the alleged mythology you are concerned about. You need affirmation of your world view. That is social and political.

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I don't need affirmation from anyone on my World view. There's a saying from Buddhism, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him." Meaning you should not trust or care about what anyone else is telling you about how to achieve salvation. I believe absolute authority comes from within. If anyone tells you differently they are either trying to sell you something or leverage you into their cult. Too many people pretend to speak for God. Too many people are jockeying for position as the real person in authority about God. I've had enough of people pretending to speak for God. I've had enough of people telling me my views are false while their opinions are facts. Opinions cannot be true or false. Opinions cannot be lies. My interpretations of the Bible are just as good as anyone else's.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

And where in the Bible does it say God is Omnipotent? I will be making a thread on that today, and when I put forth the proposition that God isn't omnipotent, that that is religious nonsense, the atheists will continue to denounce God "If God isn't omnipotent he isn't worth my time." It would make no difference.

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There are many verses supporting the idea of an all-power Almighty God:

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Isaiah 40:28
Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the en ave you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Jeremiah 32:17
‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Mark 10:27
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Psalm 139:7
Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Matthew 17:20
He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Mark 9:23
And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host.

Luke 18:27
But he said, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”

Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.

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RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

Whatever, dude. Whatever works for you. I wish you the best.

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I'm not trying to win here. I'm not posting for your approval. I'm posting to get my thoughts in alignment. We only learn about who we are and what we truly think by writing. I'm here writing for my own benefit. I hope when you post and make comments you are learning about who you are.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

I have absolute faith in Jehovah God. My problem is I have very little faith in myself.

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You should have absolute faith in yourself. We all have imperfections. We all have frustrations. I'm sure you are good man. Of course you are not perfect. But you are trying and that counts for something!

I think people judge themselves and the World too harshly. Yes, wealth inequality is at all time highs and that stinks. But all-in-all, there's just as much evidence we are blessed by God as there is we are cursed by Satan. I think we create our own reality through the programming of our perceptions. I think the World is just perfect the way it is. The people are great especially young people. Woman are insanely beautiful. The food is really good when you are starving. That's about it.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

My thing is seeing outside that box. With Hitler I was lied to about, the same as 911, and the Bible. I seek truth and I always find it buried under a great deal of nonsense.

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The video I referenced above has a great quote about dealing with unspeakable crimes against humanity. I hope you watch it. It's good to stay away from nihilism in the face of having our belief systems shattered which is what the video is about.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

Well, it's human nature. The preachers are doing the same thing to the science teachers in church on Sunday.

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I tend not to listen to preachers too much. They make me sleepy.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

I think that science should be taught in schools as science sees fit to teach it. They should be left alone. The trouble is science doesn't teach in the schools, the government does.

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Well, my central New Jersey education was terrific in math and science. English, not so much.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

The governments, all except 3 (Iran, North Korea, Cuba) now, since Libya, are run by the banks. Al the same banks. The Rothschilds. The robber barons of the past are teaching the children in school. And they don't want you to be smart enough to be asking questions you shouldn't be asking. You know that.

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Agreed. Printing money with interest payments attached is a real problem. We will never get out of debt because the printing of money creates debt. And greed has no limits.

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:

God, in the book of Revelation, has promised to do away with all governments, religion, and commerce. Nothing else will fix our problems.

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I am not waiting for God. God did NOT create our problems. We did. Man crapping in his own bed is up to man to fix it. All we need is a few good elections to get back on track. I find the 1936 words of FDR to be encouraging to how we can solve all our problems with the robber barons:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

ImmortalFlame said:

The difference is that children tend to grow out of believing in Santa, and there aren't millions of politically active children who are attempting to force their Santa-based beliefs into law or use them to dictate the rights of others, and there aren't multiple nations in the world oppressing women and minority groups on the basis of what they believe Santa told them to do.

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"Christmas must be more than once per year", "Defense spending must be replace by toy spending", "Congress cannot limit the sale of toy guns", "toy sales cannot be aborted" ....

Those Santa kid politicians are relentless!!!

dfnj said:

I'm not trying to win here. I'm not posting for your approval. I'm posting to get my thoughts in alignment. We only learn about who we are and what we truly think by writing. I'm here writing for my own benefit. I hope when you post and make comments you are learning about who you are.

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That's a really cool way of thinking about it. I post for feedback, I write my website for thought alignment. I wouldn't have thought to put it that way, but, yeah, that's really cool. Good for you!

dfnj said:

You should have absolute faith in yourself. We all have imperfections. We all have frustrations. I'm sure you are good man. Of course you are not perfect. But you are trying and that counts for something!

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Well, thank you, I appreciate it.

dfnj said:

I think people judge themselves and the World too harshly. Yes, wealth inequality is at all time highs and that stinks. But all-in-all, there's just as much evidence we are blessed by God as there is we are cursed by Satan. I think we create our own reality through the programming of our perceptions. I think the World is just perfect the way it is. The people are great especially young people. Woman are insanely beautiful. The food is really good when you are starving. That's about it.

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Wow. You're an optimist for sure.

dfnj said:

The video I referenced above has a great quote about dealing with unspeakable crimes against humanity. I hope you watch it. It's good to stay away from nihilism in the face of having our belief systems shattered which is what the video is about.

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I will check it out.

dfnj said:

I tend not to listen to preachers too much. They make me sleepy.

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Oh, no, don't ever listen to preachers. Not for a minute. If by preacher you mean like on T.V. or at church, they have no truth, they are only messed up life coaches.

dfnj said:

Well, my central New Jersey education was terrific in math and science. English, not so much.

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My only regret in doing just well enough to pass in school is that I now wish I knew proper grammar.

dfnj said:

Agreed. Printing money with interest payments attached is a real problem. We will never get out of debt because the printing of money creates debt. And greed has no limits.

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Fraction Reserve Banking. Terrible.

dfnj said:

I am not waiting for God. God did NOT create our problems. We did. Man crapping in his own bed is up to man to fix it. All we need is a few good elections to get back on track. I find the 1936 words of FDR to be encouraging to how we can solve all our problems with the robber barons:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

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And then he let the American Legion and a series of Wall Street and New York banking and bond trading firms off scott free when they tried to get Gen. Smedley Butler to take over the country, because they were too big to fail.

Elections aren't ever going to change anything here, because not only all three branches of government and the so called fourth branch, the media, is bought and paid for, but so is the system itself.