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The space was smoke

FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Onyx said:
Perhaps the use of the term "smoke" was used for lack of a better one, to describe a universe which remained formless until the supposed "Allah" came roaring in to organize the whole mess?

The book of Genesis tells a similar tale, and is much older than anything the Islamists ever wrote:



Let's compare now:



Is there much difference in the basic premise? Which verse came first?

Look, the human brain has something on the order of 100 billion neurons, many of which are potentially capable of making 10,000 interconnects to others. The voltages are rather high, in the millivolts, while most bioelectricity occurs in the microvolt range. Lots of activity going on in that skull.

Is is remotely possible that Muhammad's "smoke" hypothesis is the result of this advanced hardware, which "came into being" through the process of natural selection instead of some secret wisdom handed down by a sky-daddy?

Religious texts should be used for inspiration, mixing them with science is always a failure. And I think the whole Muhammad-as-prophet thing is a load of crap, and sorry for being snarky but get with the times people.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that the quran is talking about science but my point is how the verse is describing
the scene for the beginning of the creation and why the prophet needed to make it up if it wasn't
really a message from the creator?
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
FearGod said:
It's about the case at the beginning of the creation and not 1500 years ago,
I said the word Gases wasn't used during that era, but the scene is look like smoke.
Click to expand...

Again, 500, 1000, 1500 or 3000 years ago the ISM gas formations were not visible, and obviously unknown to humans until the modern telescopes. Humans in scripture at best speculate as to what Creation looked at.

Yes of course what we see is the reflected light and this how we see all things around us.
Click to expand...

In this case not true. Even up close these ISM gases would not be visible as smoke on earth is visible.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
shunyadragon said:
Again, 500, 1000, 1500 or 3000 years ago the ISM gas formations were not visible, and obviously unknown to humans until the modern telescopes. Humans in scripture at best speculate as to what Creation looked at.
Click to expand...

So you think the prophet was speculating that it was like smoke at the beginning.

shunyadragon said:
In this case not true. Even up close these ISM gases would not be visible as smoke on earth is visible.
Click to expand...

How it was look like at the beginning during the formation of earth?

How Was Earth Formed?

The core accretion model
Approximately 4.6 billion years ago, the solar system was a cloud of dust and gas known as a solar nebula. Gravity collapsed the material in on itself as it began to spin, forming the sun in the center of the nebula.
How Was Earth Formed?

spitzerB-20090513-640.jpg

How Earth Was Born
 
Last edited:
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

4170857b6a95f44e54d35c27d38e7de2.jpg


It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.

Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.

Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).

Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?
Click to expand...

So you think that a book describing the beginning of the universe as 'smoke' and the fact that one could say that the gaseous state that the universe began in looks like 'smoke' is significant in some way because of why?
 
Onyx

Onyx

Active Member
Premium Member
FearGod said:
I didn't say that the quran is talking about science but my point is how the verse is describing the scene for the beginning of the creation and why the prophet needed to make it up if it wasn't really a message from the creator?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but if we aren't including science in the discussion, then why was this thread posted in the "Science and Religion" section?

Humans have advanced brains capable of solving some problems ahead of the ability to test them. Einstein is one example, perhaps Muhammad is another in a lesser sense given the lack of understanding at the time.

Ask yourself this question: If Muhammad was so smart, why didn't he formulate Ohm's law, the theory of relativity, or anything about the hard problem of consciousness? We stand to learn a lot if the right questions are asked, but I think the answers come from within, not without. And this is why I reject conventional religions for favor of choosing my own path.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
QuestioningMind said:
So you think that a book describing the beginning of the universe as 'smoke' and the fact that one could say that the gaseous state that the universe began in looks like 'smoke' is significant in some way because of why?
Click to expand...

If the author was making it up then why he needs to mention such a thing which
later on found to be true?
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Onyx said:
I'm sorry, but if we aren't including science in the discussion, then why was this thread posted in the "Science and Religion" section?

Humans have advanced brains capable of solving some problems ahead of the ability to test them. Einstein is one example, perhaps Muhammad is another in a lesser sense given the lack of understanding at the time.

Ask yourself this question: If Muhammad was so smart, why didn't he formulate Ohm's law, the theory of relativity, or anything about the hard problem of consciousness? We stand to learn a lot if the right questions are asked, but I think the answers come from within, not without. And this is why I reject conventional religions for favor of choosing my own path.
Click to expand...

Very hard to think that the space was in a smoke condition, why Muhammad needed to
make such claim?
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
If the author was making it up then why he needs to mention such a thing which
later on found to be true?
Click to expand...

It's called happening to make an accurate prediction... as long as you and other are willing to pretend that the universe actually began as 'smoke'. But since that's not really true, your entire claim is nonsense.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
FearGod said:
At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

4170857b6a95f44e54d35c27d38e7de2.jpg


It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.

Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.

Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).

Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?
Click to expand...

Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
ChristineM said:
Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.
Click to expand...

This is how it was look like, it looks like smoke, I'm not saying what it contains
or consists of, but the the view looks smoke.

spitzerB-20090513-640.jpg
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
FearGod said:
This is how it was look like, it looks like smoke, I'm not saying what it contains
or consists of, but the the view looks smoke.

spitzerB-20090513-640.jpg
Click to expand...

Interesting that someone had a handy camera 13.7 billion years ago. Where did they stand to take that picture?

No, the beginning of the universe could not be photographed because light did not exist?
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
ChristineM said:
Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.
Click to expand...
Agreed. "Let There Be Light" seems as close as anything to the situation. Until ~380,000yrs from the Big Bang anyway. "Smoke" would have come a lot later.
 
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