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How does the tithe get to God?
- Thread starter Mercy Not Sacrifice
- Start date
verita
Member
Gen 26:4 And I will make your seed to multiply as the stars of the heavens, and will give to your seed all these lands. And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed,shema said:
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
This is true because all Christians are considered spiritually as seeds of Abraham. However it doesnt mean that because we are the seed of Abraham then we must obey the Law of Moses. This is the reason why the first covenant (Law of Moses) was amended by the Law of Christ which is the New Testament.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Christians could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
Act 13:39 And by Him all who believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
What law shall we follow?
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the Law of Christ.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek the king of Salem brought forth bread and wine. And he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of Heaven and earth.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, who has delivered your enemies into your hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Of all what? Of all loot that were robbed by kings of
Gen 14:1 Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations;
From Kings
Gen 14:2 Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
When Abram learned these things, he takes his men and fight against Kings Amraphel, Arios, Chedorlaomer and Tidal. Abram won the fight and they brought back all the stolen goods to Sodom.
Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he led forth his trained servants, born in his own house (three hundred and eighteen) and pursued them to Dan.
Gen 14:15 And he divided himself against them by night, he and his servants. And he struck them, and pursued them to Hobah, which is on the left of Damascus.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his brother Lot and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
Gen 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer and of the kings with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's valley.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek the king of Salem brought forth bread and wine. And he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of Heaven and earth.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, who has delivered your enemies into your hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
So the tithes mention here did not come from the tithes commanded by God to the children of Israel. The tithes mentioned here is just some sort of appreciation because King Melchizedek of Salem who is also their high priest brought them bread and wine.
The tithes given by the children of Israel to God for inheritance to the Levites are considered holy, because they offer it as heave offering to God.
Num 18:24But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Actually the laws of Moses are not yet given by God to Moses during the time of Abraham.
From Malachi 3:10, continue reading until Malachi 4:4 you will find out that tithe mentioned here is a commandment given by God to Moses in Horeb. So it is included in the Law of Moses.
Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house. And test Me now with this, says Jehovah of Hosts, to see if I will not open the windows of Heaven for you, and pour out a blessing for you, until there is not enough room.
Mal 4:4 Remember the Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded to him in Horeb for all Israel, the statutes and judgments.
See next reply...
verita
Member
continuation...
What does our Lord Jesus Christ mean here? Our Lord Jesus Christ is the son of God and he doesnt need any law. What he means here is he will fulfill the writings of the Prophets about himself that are written in the Old Testament. Some examples of them are as follows
Mic 5:2 And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me, to become Ruler in Israel, He whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?
Psa 22:16 and You have brought Me into the dust of death. For dogs have circled around Me; the band of spoilers have hemmed Me in, piercers of My hands and My feet.
Isa 46:11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken, I will also cause it to come; I have formed; yes, I will do it.
To prove that our Lord Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law that was written for him
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body didst thou prepare for me;
Heb 10:6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I am come (In the roll of the book it is written of me) To do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
It was also prophesized in the book of Psalms.
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I am come; In the roll of the book it is written of me:
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God; Yea, thy law is within my heart.
God bless you
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.shema said:
What does our Lord Jesus Christ mean here? Our Lord Jesus Christ is the son of God and he doesnt need any law. What he means here is he will fulfill the writings of the Prophets about himself that are written in the Old Testament. Some examples of them are as follows
Mic 5:2 And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me, to become Ruler in Israel, He whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?
Psa 22:16 and You have brought Me into the dust of death. For dogs have circled around Me; the band of spoilers have hemmed Me in, piercers of My hands and My feet.
Isa 46:11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken, I will also cause it to come; I have formed; yes, I will do it.
To prove that our Lord Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law that was written for him
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body didst thou prepare for me;
Heb 10:6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I am come (In the roll of the book it is written of me) To do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
It was also prophesized in the book of Psalms.
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I am come; In the roll of the book it is written of me:
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God; Yea, thy law is within my heart.
God bless you
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Church is organic in nature, not structural. The Church is the Body of Christ. You can't look at your giving as "funding the corporate machine." You look at your giving as feeding the Body of Christ.
Since humanity is driven by money, fostering the understanding that whatever money we have comes to us by God's grace is a healthy spiritual approach. Otherwise, the appropriation of money becomes an all-important impetus for our actions. Giving our money to the Church is, in effect, giving up into Christ's hands that which drives us, freeing us to be driven, not by acquisition of money, but by loving God and neighbor.
The tithe does "get to God," because the tithe goes to the Church, which is the Body of Christ...the second person of the Trinity.
Since humanity is driven by money, fostering the understanding that whatever money we have comes to us by God's grace is a healthy spiritual approach. Otherwise, the appropriation of money becomes an all-important impetus for our actions. Giving our money to the Church is, in effect, giving up into Christ's hands that which drives us, freeing us to be driven, not by acquisition of money, but by loving God and neighbor.
The tithe does "get to God," because the tithe goes to the Church, which is the Body of Christ...the second person of the Trinity.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I'm not Christian (Christians aren't the only ones who tithe) so I don't really think of my church as the body of Christ. But I do appreciate how well thought our your answer is within your framework. And I especially appreciate you lifting up the spiritual aspect of giving up money lest we become too attached to it. That is why I tithe. Money is not evil and to be avoided. Money is also not a good to be pursued in and of itself. It is one of the things with which we are blessed (some of us more and some of us less) and which we can use to bless others, by giving it freely, with an open heart. The gift that we receive from tithing is the effect that the practice of generosity has on ourselves.sojourner said:
shema
Active Member
"However it doesnt mean that because we are the seed of Abraham then we must obey the Law of Moses. This is the reason why the first covenant (Law of Moses) was amended by the Law of Christ which is the New Testament"
Covenant means promise. God promised that they would be his people to bring all the nations
of the world to him.
"Christians could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
Act 13:39 And by Him all who believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses".
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the Law of Christ."
Well What is the law of christ?,
"Of all what? Of all loot that were robbed by kings of "
The word tithe means tenth, so whatever he had , he gave tenth.
"Actually the laws of Moses are not yet given by God to Moses during the time of Abraham."
Exactly, and he gave to the high priest. He also gave burnt offerings..so did Cain, Abel, and Presumebly Adam. so Moses incorperated tithing and offering into the law.
Covenant means promise. God promised that they would be his people to bring all the nations
of the world to him.
Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb. 9:6 Now when these things wre thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabrnacle, accomplishing the service of God.
They did not keep the Old Covenant the way they should have , like when Jesus ran the money changers out of the temple, and etc....God was actually instilling discipline in them to prepare for christ. Heb. 9:6 Now when these things wre thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabrnacle, accomplishing the service of God.
Heb. 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.
Matt. 23:23 Woe to you, scribes [teachers of the law: NIV] and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law -- judgment, mercy, and faith; these you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone
"The New Testament does not record Jesus practice of the tithe. However we do read about the many accusations made against Jesus by the Pharisees. . . . If Jesus had been guilty of neglecting the tithe, obviously the charges would have been made publicly. . . . Jesus could have declared the tithe invalid. In fact it would have strengthened his condemnation of the Pharisees. Yet he made it very clear that the tithe was still expected...ranking and prioritizing within the law that establishes the moral aspect of the law as higher than its civil and ceremonial aspect...http://www.home.earthlink.net/~russkellyphd/id17.htmlMatt. 23:23 Woe to you, scribes [teachers of the law: NIV] and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law -- judgment, mercy, and faith; these you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone
"Christians could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
Act 13:39 And by Him all who believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses".
was this talking about tithes? or all things of the law of Moses? no.
What things then? Sin. Sin, iniquities, and transgresions could not be justified by the law of Moses. But was prophesyed by Isaiah..
What things then? Sin. Sin, iniquities, and transgresions could not be justified by the law of Moses. But was prophesyed by Isaiah..
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many: for he shall bear their iniquities.
"What law shall we follow?
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the Law of Christ."
Well What is the law of christ?,
Gal. 5:14 Now we exhort you brethern warn them that are unrulyk comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, b patient towrd all men,15see that none render evil for evild unto any man/ but ever follow that whidh is good both among yourselves and to all men.16 rejoice evermore17pray without ceasing18in everything give thanks for this is the will of god in Christ concerning you19quench not the spirit19Despise not prophesyings21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.22Abstain from all appearance of evil
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well
"Of all what? Of all loot that were robbed by kings of "
The word tithe means tenth, so whatever he had , he gave tenth.
"Actually the laws of Moses are not yet given by God to Moses during the time of Abraham."
Exactly, and he gave to the high priest. He also gave burnt offerings..so did Cain, Abel, and Presumebly Adam. so Moses incorperated tithing and offering into the law.
verita
Member
Gen 14:1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of Goiim,shema said:
Gen 14:2 that they made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar).
Gen 14:10 Now the vale of Siddim was full of slime pits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and they fell there, and they that remained fled to the mountain.
Gen 14:11 And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.
Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he led forth his trained servants, born in his own house (three hundred and eighteen) and pursued them to Dan.
Gen 14:15 And he divided himself against them by night, he and his servants. And he struck them, and pursued them to Hobah, which is on the left of Damascus.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his brother Lot and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek the king of Salem brought forth bread and wine. And he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of Heaven and earth.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, who has delivered your enemies into your hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
all = goods looted by Kings Amraphel of Shinar, Arioch of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer of Elam, and Tidal of Goiim from Sodom and Gomorrah but recovered by Abram (Gen 14:16). If tithes mentioned in Gen 14:20 is for God, God will not accept that because it is a stolen goods.
verita
Member
shema said:
Woe means an exclamation of grief, distress, or lamentation.
Why our Lord Jesus Christ say Woe to scribes and Pharisees?
Because they are hypocrites.
Why are they hypocrites?
Because they give tithes BUT
For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin,
they have neglected the more important matters of the law which is judgment, mercy and faith
and have omitted the weightier matters of the law -- judgment, mercy, and faith;
Later in the same chapter our Lord Jesus Christ said to those scribes and Pharisees
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Those scribes and Pharisees were not Christians.
They always oppose the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless you.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
verita said:
Well, that's the whole point of the OP--to figure that out.
sojourner said:
What is the definition of "church"? If I join this church, I become Jesus?
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
He said Christ, not Jesus. The church is the living body of Christ.Mercy Not Sacrifice said:
If you are a Christian, then you are part of the church, which is the living body of Christ.
Church here does not refer to a building or even a denomination. I know that can be confusing. But remember, when Christianity first started there weren't all these different denominations. There were just followers of Christ. The word "church" in the context that Sojourner is using it refers to living people who maintain the presence of Christ on earth, even tho Jesus Christ has (died, been ressurected, and) ascended into heaven. Christ lives in the heart of each Christian, not in a building or organization.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
Er, I thought that the union of Christ and the church did not come until the marriage in the final days. But if what you're saying is true, and we truly become divine if we join, then perhaps the OP would be satisfied. Although it doesn't explain how the tithe gets all the way to God, which is really what I asked.
That said, I'll restate the question: If I join this church, do I become Christ?
That said, I'll restate the question: If I join this church, do I become Christ?