Prominent Marks of the True Church of the Lord Today

sojourner · Aug 17, 2006

cardero said:
This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
H.H. the Dalai Lama

I would prefer that GOD recognize me for my own merits, my own values, my own personality, my own beliefs, my own actions, my own shortcomings and not remember me for the company that I keep. I would prefer that GOD treat me according to the REALationship that I encourage with Him and see me for who I AM and not what He expects me to BE because I have a strong indication that HE would like to be treated in the same manner. These are the marks of my true religion.

I thought we were dealing with a specifically Christian perspective, in which case, how we treat each other is the sign of who we are. That's the only religion I can speak to with any authority. I have no idea about your religion. I wasn't speaking from that perspective.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

Anade said:
Um, yeah, I'm just saying what's in the Bible.

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First and foremost, the bible is not the Lord God and it is only from the Lord God that real authority and power emanates. Put God above the bible and learn from God. The bible cannot teach us the TRUTH but only the Lord God himself.

I could ask you they very same question.

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I am getting what I am saying from the Lord God Jesus Christ Himself who said to us the following:

"I Am the Pastor. I Am the Good Pastor. Keep in your mind that there are no others who will teach you except Me. If ever that you will be explaining with each other, same will only be in accordance with your will, same will be in accordance with your own thinking. Hence, keep in your mind that whosoever will act being a pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away My post being the Good Pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away my post being the Good Pastor because you are only human beings, those of you who act as pastors, those of you who teach and standing up in front of many people, those of you who are doers of iniquities, those of you who cast out devils in My name. Keep in your mind that in My Second coming, many will call to Me saying, Lord, Lord, didnt we do powerful works and in your name we cast out devils, we did healing. But keep in your mind, I will say to them, never at any time do I know you, I do not know you at any time, those of you who are habitual workers of iniquity, those of you who are casting out devils. Keep in your mind that if you cast out devils, you are snatching away the title role which properly belongs to Me only. If there is any being possessed by demon that you may encounter, you should only pray to Me and in that manner I Am ready to hear your prayer and I will hear your every plea that you will whisper to Me, that you will shout, that you will pray to. I will help you and I will never forsake you at any time much more to those people who are with Me and who follow Me."

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

may said:
and they know him because they have drawn close to God in prayer, and then God has drawn even closer to them. he has revealed many things to them regarding the prophecies that God has put in the bible .he has given them understanding about the bible prophecies that are undergoing fullfillment today. yes faithfulness leads to great blessings .
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant daniel 12;4
(Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end.
(Psalm 97:11) Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, And rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart.

As for God, he has looked down from heaven itself upon the sons of men,

To see whether there exists anyone having insight, anyone seeking Jehovah Isaiah 53;2

All I can say with you is that God speaks directly to the people and not thru the bible in the manner that you emphasize because God is alive and real, existing in the whole of the heaven, the earth, and the universe. The bible is not God and it cannot teach us the TRUTH, only God can.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

sojourner said:
Adlemi:

I said,
You replied,
Alrighty then...
The only mark of true Christians (who, together, comprise the Church) is how we love one another. Jesus said it, not me.

Don't know what you were getting at in your reply, but there's the reality of it. Love is real.

What I plainly mean to say is instead of saying "it seems to me", why don't you say "God teaches me, God said to me, I learned from God, etc." to show that you are coming from the Lord and what you are saying you hear directly from the Lord God.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

sojourner said:
We're not talking about individual believers here. The OP wanted to know the prominent marks of the true Church. We're talking about the Church (presumably as a whole.)

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Isn't it that the Church is composed of believers themselves, hence Christians. As for the marks, this maybe added to the previous marks.

and there is only one Body. Christ said that the Church must be one -- that is its nature, that is its prominent mark.

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And that mark is the Lord God himself being their Head,Leader, Good Pastor, Teacher, Keeper, and Overseeer that makes it only One and it is to be found in the Lord God himself, not in any denominations of today for they are not One.

And that oneness is rooted in the love that we have for one another.

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All the denominations of today have this claim, who among them is the right one?

Most Christians use the Bible for inspiration, wisdom, and to determine theological stances.

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Did the Lord God instructed anyone to use the bible as such in their life? What do you think?

That is the purpose the Bible has for the Church.

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Did God say this to you personally or publicly? Who really said this one?

Most Christians also know God through prayer and meditation. Additionally, most Christians know God through the Tradition -- through the Body of which they are a part. It's not as easy a proposition as you offer here.

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God is existing real and alive and in His own way of existence, how can anyone know God thru this manner? Call on to God and talk ot God and wait for God to get back to you so that you may know God truly, not just thru conceptualizes doctrines and teaching from the bible. This is the reason why we do have different religious denominations instead of only One with the Lord God.

Frankly, I find your perspective naive and too simple.

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What else is new from the very beginning?

Lindsey-Loo · Aug 18, 2006

First and foremost, the bible is not the Lord God and it is only from the Lord God that real authority and power emanates. Put God above the bible and learn from God. The bible cannot teach us the TRUTH but only the Lord God himself.

The Bible is God's holy inspired word. If you can't believe that what god wrote in the Bible is true, you have a long way to go.

I am getting what I am saying from the Lord God Jesus Christ Himself who said to us the following:

Yeah, whatever.

sojourner · Aug 18, 2006

I am getting what I am saying from the Lord God Jesus Christ Himself who said to us the following:

"I Am the Pastor. I Am the Good Pastor. Keep in your mind that there are no others who will teach you except Me. If ever that you will be explaining with each other, same will only be in accordance with your will, same will be in accordance with your own thinking. Hence, keep in your mind that whosoever will act being a pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away My post being the Good Pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away my post being the Good Pastor because you are only human beings, those of you who act as pastors, those of you who teach and standing up in front of many people, those of you who are doers of iniquities, those of you who cast out devils in My name. Keep in your mind that in My Second coming, many will call to Me saying, Lord, Lord, didn’t we do powerful works and in your name we cast out devils, we did healing. But keep in your mind, I will say to them, never at any time do I know you, I do not know you at any time, those of you who are habitual workers of iniquity, those of you who are casting out devils. Keep in your mind that if you cast out devils, you are snatching away the title role which properly belongs to Me only. If there is any being possessed by demon that you may encounter, you should only pray to Me and in that manner I Am ready to hear your prayer and I will hear your every plea that you will whisper to Me, that you will shout, that you will pray to. I will help you and I will never forsake you at any time much more to those people who are with Me and who follow Me."

...through the words of the Bible.

sojourner · Aug 18, 2006

adlemi said:
What I plainly mean to say is instead of saying "it seems to me", why don't you say "God teaches me, God said to me, I learned from God, etc." to show that you are coming from the Lord and what you are saying you hear directly from the Lord God.

Yes, but what we hear (or read) from God, we process through the filter of our own understanding. I said what I said because, as I read the Bible (which is God's inspired revelation of God's self to us), I find printed there the statement that we (who make up the Church) will be known by the love we have for one another. As I read that statement, the opinion I formulate through the filter of my understanding tells me that this is the hallmark of a Christian.

sojourner · Aug 18, 2006

I said,

We're not talking about individual believers here. The OP wanted to know the prominent marks of the true Church. We're talking about the Church (presumably as a whole.)

adlemi said,

Isn't it that the Church is composed of believers themselves, hence Christians. As for the marks, this maybe added to the previous marks.

Individuals together make up the Church -- not individuals apart. It's the togetherness that's operative and important in the identity, both of the individual so aligned and the organism of the Church itself. And how is that togetherness qualified? By the love we show toward each other in our togetherness.

I said,

and there is only one Body. Christ said that the Church must be one -- that is its nature, that is its prominent mark.

You said,

And that mark is the Lord God himself being their Head,Leader, Good Pastor, Teacher, Keeper, and Overseeer that makes it only One and it is to be found in the Lord God himself, not in any denominations of today for they are not One.

That's because it goes back to the Shema: "Hear O Isreal, the Lord God is One."

I said,

And that oneness is rooted in the love that we have for one another.

You said,

All the denominations of today have this claim, who among them is the right one?

To wonder "which is right?" is really to engage in faulty thinking. The Church is One, no matter its manifestation, or multi-faceted appearance. All members of the Church have a handle on some part of Truth. All members reveal God through their lives -- especially by the way they love.

I said,

Most Christians use the Bible for inspiration, wisdom, and to determine theological stances.

You said,

Did the Lord God instructed anyone to use the bible as such in their life? What do you think?

Why should God have to? What is the book for? To sit on the shelf and collect dust? The Bible was written with the purpose of revelation. That revelation inspires and informs us.

I said,

That is the purpose the Bible has for the Church.

You said,

Did God say this to you personally or publicly? Who really said this one?

Why would God need to say that to me -- or anyone else? It just is what it is. God doesn't need to inform me that a science textbook is used for learning science; God doesn't need to inform me that the Bible contains revelation of God.

I said,

Most Christians also know God through prayer and meditation. Additionally, most Christians know God through the Tradition -- through the Body of which they are a part. It's not as easy a proposition as you offer here.

You said,

God is existing real and alive and in His own way of existence, how can anyone know God thru this manner? Call on to God and talk ot God and wait for God to get back to you so that you may know God truly, not just thru conceptualizes doctrines and teaching from the bible. This is the reason why we do have different religious denominations instead of only One with the Lord God.

That's what prayer and meditation are...
Of course not "just through" -- but rather "in addition to." We are exhorted to read, pray, meditate, and learn from one another. we have different denominations because different people conceptualize things differently from different perspectives. That should in no way diminish or negate the unity of the Body.

I said,

Frankly, I find your perspective naive and too simple.

You said,

What else is new from the very beginning?

I'm not sure I know what you meant by that statement, but I do know that the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" argument allows for no room for us to use the reasoning with which God has blessed us.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

Anade said:
The Bible is God's holy inspired word. If you can't believe that what god wrote in the Bible is true, you have a long way to go.

How did you come up with this conclusion and from/with whom did you learn same?

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

sojourner said:
...through the words of the Bible.

Kindly go over them properly to find out if same is the verbatim copy of the bible only. The Lord God has mouth to speak to us.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

sojourner said:
Yes, but what we hear (or read) from God, we process through the filter of our own understanding. I said what I said because, as I read the Bible (which is God's inspired revelation of God's self to us), I find printed there the statement that we (who make up the Church) will be known by the love we have for one another. As I read that statement, the opinion I formulate through the filter of my understanding tells me that this is the hallmark of a Christian.

It is evident that you are just reading the bible and not hearing at all from the Lord God as Paul and Moses did with the Lord. It is really hard for you to say the things I am driving a point in here. Learn directly from the Lord and not from the bible.

adlemi · Aug 18, 2006

sojourner said:
Individuals together make up the Church -- not individuals apart. It's the togetherness that's operative and important in the identity, both of the individual so aligned and the organism of the Church itself. And how is that togetherness qualified? By the love we show toward each other in our togetherness.

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It is the Lord God Jesus Christ himself who is determining whether an individual is already a member of HIs Church or not, hence togetherness as people are showing in different Churches which you say is only One Body (are they really?) is not a qualifying factor with the Lord but our individual's faith in God that counts.

To wonder "which is right?" is really to engage in faulty thinking. The Church is One, no matter its manifestation, or multi-faceted appearance. All members of the Church have a handle on some part of Truth. All members reveal God through their lives -- especially by the way they love.

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The only one Church is the One which the Lord God himself keepeth and no one can be a member of this Church without directly coming to and meeting with the Lord God Jesus Christ. That Church is not even one among the present day denominational ones whose pastors0 are only human beings like us. Love is nothing if it is only in accordance with the perception and teaching of men.

Why should God have to? What is the book for? To sit on the shelf and collect dust? The Bible was written with the purpose of revelation. That revelation inspires and informs us.

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This is where the real believers and the bible believers in God differs very much. The former is deeply attached to and dependent with the Lord God himself for the TRUTH and teachings whereas the latter is deeply and grossly enslaved by their own wisdom and knowledge of what is only written in the bible ignoring the real presence and capability of God to teach them personally. The bible is only a book of testimony for us to know that there is really God whom we can call on and/or come to at any time for us to have a Teacher of all things. Let God speak for himself and do not overtake God in making decision especially for your own salvation and eternal life.

Why would God need to say that to me -- or anyone else? It just is what it is. God doesn't need to inform me that a science textbook is used for learning science; God doesn't need to inform me that the Bible contains revelation of God.

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It is very important the you must learn them directly from the Lord God himself and not just with your own presumptions and conclusions because the Lord God is the only TRUTH and He is the only rewarder of salvation and eternal life. Is there any big deal for you to put yourself under the direct custody of the Lord God?

we have different denominations because different people conceptualize things differently from different perspectives. That should in no way diminish or negate the unity of the Body.

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Oh come on bro., this is too far from the reality of the word "UNITY WITH THE LORD". Wake up bro.

I'm not sure I know what you meant by that statement, but I do know that the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" argument allows for no room for us to use the reasoning with which God has blessed us.

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People's disbelief about the reality of the existence of God and His dealing with them in the days of the old and in our time today differs nothing at all, so what else is new?

Booko · Aug 18, 2006

adlemi said:
The only one Church is the One which the Lord God himself keepeth and no one can be a member of this Church without directly coming to and meeting with the Lord God Jesus Christ.

Maybe you could give us the address, we can Mapquest it, and drop by to visit him for tea next Tuesday?

may · Aug 19, 2006

cardero said:
This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
H.H. the Dalai Lama

I would prefer that GOD recognize me for my own merits, my own values, my own personality, my own beliefs, my own actions, my own shortcomings and not remember me for the company that I keep. I would prefer that GOD treat me according to the REALationship that I encourage with Him and see me for who I AM and not what He expects me to BE because I have a strong indication that HE would like to be treated in the same manner. These are the marks of my true religion.

but is it inline with the bible,? Jesus said that the class of faithful slaves would be feeding the domestics(us) so if the food comes from Jesus it will be the most benefical food around, and will be very healthy and nourishing. there is lots of food out in the world, but only the best comes from the channel that Jesus is using.

saying that ,you are quite right to say that a personal relationship with God is important, but going along with what the bible tells us , is what God wants us to do. Jehovah has always used a channel to get information across and he has one today,
This is in fulfillment of the prophecy at Isaiah 25:6: "Jehovah of armies will certainly make for all the peoples, in this mountain, a banquet of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of wine kept on the dregs, of well-oiled dishes filled with marrow, of wine kept on the dregs, filtered." As verses 7 and 8 show, this feast will continue everlastingly. What a blessing it is for all in Jehovahs visible organization now, and what a blessing it will continue to be in the future! yum ,yum.

nutshell · Aug 19, 2006

adlemi said:
1. In the true church of the Lord, there is no man pastor/s who will teach his brothers nor will there be any one to act as leader, but in the True Church of the Lord, the Lord God Almighty who is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ is the One, the only Good Pastor himself who personally teaches each and everyone in the church and the Lord God is the only One high and above all mankind and all creations. The Lord God is the only keeper and overseers of the flock and the only One adding or deducting a member/s to the church. Nobody knows the location and status of the church members for only the Lord knows it and those whom the Lord wishes to.

God has always called people to lead his Church. You're right, the Lord is the only one who is the keeper of the flock and adds or deduct member to the church, but he does this through the priesthood he has established.

adlemi said:
2. In the true church of the Lord, each and everyone is equal to and/or is at par with each other. None is poor neither rich, none is sick nor healthy, none is humbled nor exalted, none is big nor small, but all is whole and already healed in spirit. If there is any impairment between and amongst themselves, they are only in flesh, but not in spirit.

I agree with this. We are all equal in the Lord's eyes. Last night I toured the Sacramento Temple and the guide talked about dressing all in white when we enter the temple. He said we do this for two reasons. First, it represents purity and, second, it makes us all equal when we take off our street clothes and wear the same plain white clothes.

adlemi said:
3. In the true church of the Lord, no one is allowed to explain the holy scriptures/bible and teach same to his brother for the Lord God is the only One who will teach each and everyone among mankind and the only duty of any member is just to tell the world to call on to and to go to the Lord God directly and seek the Lord true to their heart, soul, and mind. If there will be any explanation of the scriptures/bible to be made (like in a bible study which is allowed by the Lord), same should be treated as only their own explanation and should be kept to themselves. Never at all that same should be made doctrine/s of the church for in the church of the Lord, there is no doctrine whatsoever because the Lord God himself is the only Teacher/Good Pastor and the teachings will always come from the Lord God alone.

The Lord does allow people to teach from the Spirit and if this happens, then it is the same as coming from the Lord himself.

adlemi said:
4. In the true church of the Lord, none is boastful saying that they are the only ones to be saved and outside of their church is no salvation and they do not mingle in any troublesome activities, but rather they spread the words that the Lord is uttering to them in guiding their fellow men to the way leading to the kingdom of God.

Christ himself established that there is only one way. Either you believe that or you don't. But you're right - we should not be boastful. Rather we should seek to make "bad people good and good people better."
________________________________________________________________________

adlemi said:
a. Why are different religious denominations today have only man pastors instead of having the Almighty Lord God as their only Good Pastor and Teacher who will teach them about God, about the bible, and about all things?

As I stated above, God has always called a priesthood to lead his Church and when they are acting with the Spirit, they are in tune with the Lord and acting as he would have them do.

adlemi said:
b. Why

adlemi said:
are different religious denominations today typically get their teachings and doctrines only from the bible instead of having them all emanate directly from the Almighty Lord God himself as in the days of the Old and New Testament times?

The true church doesn't. It recognizes that there are other scriptures as God has spoken to many of his children throughout the world - throughout time. Further, He continues to direct us today through the Spirit and the priesthood that he has called.

adlemi · Aug 19, 2006

Booko said:
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Maybe you could give us the address, we can Mapquest it, and drop by to visit him for tea next Tuesday?

The Lord God Jesus Christ himselfis the One that you have to meet for you to know what kind of Church is this One.

Booko · Aug 19, 2006

adlemi said:
The Lord God Jesus Christ himselfis the One that you have to meet for you to know what kind of Church is this One.

Like I asked, and how do I find Him?

adlemi · Aug 19, 2006

nutshell said:
[/color][/size][/size]

God has always called people to lead his Church. You're right, the Lord is the only one who is the keeper of the flock and adds or deduct member to the church, but he does this through the priesthood he has established.

Click to expand...

The Lord God said:

"I Am the Pastor. I Am the Good Pastor. Keep in your mind that there are no others who will teach you except Me. If ever that you will be explaining with each other, same will only be in accordance with your will, same will be in accordance with your own thinking. Hence, keep in your mind that whosoever will act being a pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away My post being the Good Pastor, who will act being a leader of My Church, he is doing iniquity and snatching away my post being the Good Pastor because you are only human beings, those of you who act as pastors, those of you who teach and standing up in front of many people, those of you who are doers of iniquities, those of you who cast out devils in My name. Keep in your mind that in My Second coming, many will call to Me saying, Lord, Lord, didnt we do powerful works and in your name we cast out devils, we did healing. But keep in your mind, I will say to them, never at any time do I know you, I do not know you at any time, those of you who are habitual workers of iniquity, those of you who are casting out devils. Keep in your mind that if you cast out devils, you are snatching away the title role which properly belongs to Me only. If there is any being possessed by demon that you may encounter, you should only pray to Me and in that manner I Am ready to hear your prayer and I will hear your every plea that you will whisper to Me, that you will shout, that you will pray to. I will help you and I will never forsake you at any time much more to those people who are with Me and who follow Me."

Kindly compare what you are saying vis a vis with this Words directly from the Lord God Jesus Christ if you can find that priest is allowed to lead the Church.

I agree with this. We are all equal in the Lord's eyes. Last night I toured the Sacramento Temple and the guide talked about dressing all in white when we enter the temple. He said we do this for two reasons. First, it represents purity and, second, it makes us all equal when we take off our street clothes and wear the same plain white clothes.

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This one deals more of the Leader of the Church that no one from among mankind will act as the Leader of the Church because we are all at par with each other, meaning we are all believers and no one is a pastor or a leader of the Church but only the Lord God. Secondary to this is just what you are saying above.

The Lord does allow people to teach from the Spirit and if this happens, then it is the same as coming from the Lord himself.

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This one is well explained by the Lord in His above Words._______________________________________________________________

The true church doesn't. It recognizes that there are other scriptures as God has spoken to many of his children throughout the world - throughout time. Further, He continues to direct us today through the Spirit and the priesthood that he has called.

Click to expand...

God himself is the true Scriptures that He can always utter them at any point in time to anyone whom He wishes to. No earthly scriptures found and discovered by men can teach us the real TRUTH but only God himself, bear that in your mind always. All must call on and call to the Lord God in the right way for God to come in directly to our life here on earth and in eternity.

adlemi · Aug 19, 2006

Booko said:
Like I asked, and how do I find Him?

Are you kidding? Jesus Christ is the Almighty Lord God and He is just besides you right now? You don't have to move either to find Jesus, all you have to do is to speak up with Him?

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