• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

spirit of antichrist is in the world today

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus did not teach that scripture was written for the anointed. He actually says that everyone can be learn from him and be comforted by him.

Matthew 11:28-29

28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart,+ and you will find refreshment for yourselves.*
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 are you aware of how the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses comes to its conclusions about what the Bible really teaches?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Sheol=Hebrew=The grave=Hades-Greek= The grave=Hell-English---

Luke 16:23 (ESV Strong's) and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

If hell is just a common grave, why did Jesus include TORMENT in His story? If one is dead and gone, what TORMENT is there?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@kjw47 the truth is that the governing body come to their conclusions about what the Bible really teaches by comparing scriptures and reasoning on how they can be in harmony with their purpose for Paradise Earth.

What that means is that they don't actually hear from Jesus. Have they ever said they do?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
They put scriptures together that do not belong together.

The faithful and discreet slave can't also be the 144,000 because he is described as possibly defecting.
The 144,000 are sealed and can't defect.

The rider described at Revelation 6:2 can't be the same as the rider described at Revelation 19:11 because the rider at Revelation 6:2 rides the Earth and the rider at Revelation 19:11 rides in Heaven.

Heaven and Earth are actually not the same.
 

Rick B

Active Member
Premium Member
You know very well that I presented the NWT - your bible version - or maybe you forgot or didn't see them or something.

So, I'll give you, once again, another opportunity to go to your version and directly engage these two texts and give an explanation as to how they relate to your theology.

Psalm 102:24-27
24 I said: “O my God, Do not do away with me in the middle of my life, You whose years span all generations.+25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands.+26 They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away.27 But you are the same, and your years will never end.+

This is relating the eternal and immutable (unchanging) nature of YHWH.

Hebrews 1:8-12
8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne+ forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.* 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you+ with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”+ 10 And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”+

"about the SON", He (God v.5) speaks throughout these verses that "At the beginning, O Lord, you (the Son) laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”+

Your own NWT demonstrates that the Son (Jesus) is revealed in the New Testament as eternal, immutable YHWH in the Old Testament.

As an aside, Your claim that Michael the Archangel became Jesus is also refuted in the next two verses of your own version:

13 But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?+14 Are they not all spirits for holy service,*+ sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

Echoed in Psalm 110 Jehovah declared to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand+Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”+
and
Ps.132: 5 Until I find a place for Jehovah, A fine residence* for the Powerful One of Jacob.”+ 6 Look! We heard about it in Ephʹra·thah;+We found it in the fields of the forest.+ 7 Let us come into his residence;*+Let us bow down at his footstool.+

The logical - Biblical answer to this rhetorical question of verse 13 is of course NONE. Including Michael.

Only in your twisted reasonings. a failure to believe Jesus.
YHVH(Jehovah) did all of it--he did it through Jesus.
John 5:30, Acts 2:22)

First I must call out your (@kjw47) canard that all trinity translations are from Catholic origins. The KJV has its origin from the Textus Receptus translated by the Catholic monk Erasmus who had only 6 Greek manuscripts and the Vulgate for references. Nearly all modern versions utilize the Nestle-Aland and USB Alexandrian text with over 5840 manuscripts available. Two different text types with an enormous difference of quantity of sources and translator's religious affiliation i.e. Protestant.

An honest man will not continue to misrepresent truth once he has been corrected and accurately informed.

Next , after several attempts to encourage you over a long period of time, you have refused to directly engage these texts which identify Jesus as YHWH in the O.T.. Your own version is quoted. The reason you divert is because you cannot reconcile the heretical teaching of the JW's rejection of the deity of Christ and the affirmation of the deity of Christ written in these verses of your NWT.

Your avoiding/hiding/ignoring any attempt to address them shows beyond the shadow of doubt that you know the slippery-slope you are on and promote the lie even in the face of your own version of the Bible's opposite teaching. And what does that say about you and your attachment to this sect?

I predict that, in view of this self-defeating dilemma, it won't be long before the JW's will correct (read mistranslate God's truth) their version again to accommodate their errant theology.
 
Last edited:

kjw47

Well-Known Member
If telling yourself that makes you sleep better at night, I guess more power to ya!

The Jews in Berea were searching the scripture to see if what Paul and Silas said was true because it was the first time they heard their teaching.

Acts 17:10-11 (ESV Strong's) 10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

You can make all the excuses you want for your false teachers, if God is giving the words, He's not going to let it be taught wrong!


All men are imperfect and make errors. Correction is done by the wise who keep looking. Peter had to make corrections in his books. Titus was left behind to correct error teachings that got in. Paul corrected Peter on an occasion. Jesus encouraged the Pharisees to make correction to their errors that Got in. 0 doubt they were Gods chosen until this-Matt 23:37-39)-- they were unwise and thought for sure they were standing strong. Satan beat the majority on earth today, centuries ago.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (ESV Strong's) Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 7:23-24 (ESV Strong's) You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 24 So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

Every Christian is bought! Did Jesus pay the ransom for you? You were bought from the earth too!



I agree every Christian( true follower) were bought with Jesus blood. But only 144,000 are promised heaven.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
First I must call out your (@kjw47) canard that all trinity translations are from Catholic origins. The KJV has its origin from the Textus Receptus translated by the Catholic monk Erasmus who had only 6 Greek manuscripts and the Vulgate for references. Nearly all modern versions utilize the Nestle-Aland and USB Alexandrian text with over 5840 manuscripts available. Two different text types with an enormous difference of quantity of sources and translator's religious affiliation i.e. Protestant.

An honest man will not continue to misrepresent truth once he has been corrected and accurately informed.

Next , after several attempts to encourage you over a long period of time, you have refused to directly engage these texts which identify Jesus as YHWH in the O.T.. Your own version is quoted. The reason you divert is because you cannot reconcile the heretical teaching of the JW's rejection of the deity of Christ and the affirmation of the deity of Christ written in these verses of your NWT.

Your avoiding/hiding/ignoring any attempt to address them shows beyond the shadow of doubt that you know the slippery-slope you are on and promote the lie even in the face of your own version of the Bible's opposite teaching. And what does that say about you and your attachment to this sect?

I predict that, in view of this self-defeating dilemma, it won't be long before the JW's will correct (read mistranslate God's truth) their version again to accommodate their errant theology.


The only works left by the time protestants translated--only Catholicism works , and Hebrew works remained, at minimum 1000 years after the councils were held( protestants translated).--They contradict one another. The protestants could clearly see that Catholicism is far removed from God and his son. They had 0 clue as to the translating errors, they did not fix them, The New world translation fixed them.
I know for sure--Facts and the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
What does the blood of Christ do for you kjw47?


God willing, Proverbs 2:21-22--Matt 24:22--being brought through Har-mageddon on earth into Gods kingdom( new earth)( post Har-mageddon)-- Gods kingdom rule--the only power ever to rule again( Dan 2:44)( post satans short release before he is destroyed in the lake of fire.)
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
The Bible does not say that! It says that when they died they did not go to Heaven.

You believe Jehovah by Jesus Christ can and will resurrect people to the Earth.
You are being taught that Jehovah and Jesus won't resurrect some people to Heaven!

Please prove to yourself and to us that the Bible really teaches that no one who died before Jesus died can be resurrected to Heaven.

I understand that it is written that they didn't get resurrected to Heaven when they died. Now you have the task to prove that Jehovah will not resurrect anyone who died before Jesus died to Heaven.


One has to know many points to understand that truth. One needs to learn milk first. Real truth--it is Gods will-John 4:22-24--it is now abundant here in these last days( Daniel 12:4)--
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
What you are being taught is that a bought one can be lost.
You are also being taught like the Catholics were taught for many years that the Bible is not for the average person.


Truth proves the bible is not understood by the average person.= 33,000 religions claim to be Christian, ONE is. 1Cor 1:10)-- one truth, one faith, one God-- a worldwide brotherhood, unified in Love and peace) who became one with God and his son now by living to do Jesus' Fathers will, and disowning themselves to follow Jesus-( Matt 16:24-- Luke 10--Acts 20:20-- taught by the faithful and discreet slave( Jesus' real teachers) who give food( spiritual) at the proper time( When God wills)
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
@kjw47 You are being taught that Judas was one of the 144,000 before even a way was made to Heaven.
Do you not understand that all of the 144,000 are creatures of The Heaven?


They are mortals bought from the earth. Who become spirit beings. They will rule as kings and priests on thrones beside Jesus, Even judging the fallen angels. Rev 20-- Rev 1:5,6
Judas was picked by Jesus, he would have been one of them if he stood. Not all stand. The bible clearly teaches---Many will be called, Few will be chosen.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
My word, you are so deceived, you don't even know what the Bible really teaches. Please look things up before you go and make a fool of yourself!

Matthew 8:11-12 (ESV Strong's) 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Did Abraham, Issac and Jacob die before Jesus? And please don't say that verse is not talking about actual heaven, because it says, "in the kingdom of HEAVEN", not the kingdom of God.


The kingdom is in heaven. After the resurrection, no matter where one stands they will be under the kingdom of heavens rule. Revelation says it will be like a tent over mankind Rev 21:3)--meaning full protection always. On the earth that occurs.
The faithful of old will be resurrected--alive and well, on earth.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I agree every Christian( true follower) were bought with Jesus blood. But only 144,000 are promised heaven.
You don't believe that they are promised heaven because you say someone of the 144,00 can lose it.
A promise from Jehovah is sure. Do you not know that?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One has to know many points to understand that truth. One needs to learn milk first. Real truth--it is Gods will-John 4:22-24--it is now abundant here in these last days( Daniel 12:4)--
Can you think of any reasons why the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses might not want you to believe that ancient people will ever go to Heaven? I shall give you one clue. They believe that the number 144,000 is an actual number. No more than 144,000 and no less.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes I know how. Prayer, discussion of facts. Holy spirit guiding truth at the proper time( When God wills)
Tell us why you think God wills people to be in the dark about some things even if they can know it they must wait until your teachers know it first.
 
Top