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Myths in the Judeo-Christian scripture.

Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
Many, if not most of the Genesis deniers like to scoff and ridicule Scriptures as nothing more than myths and fairy tales. I suppose that is understandable coming from those that are ignorant, willing or not, of scripture. As an example of the Scriptures validity, there are over 100 prophecies that have been fulfilled in history exactly as it was foretold in scripture, below is just one example.

"Tyre's Stones, Timber and Soil Will Be Cast Into the Sea
In a remarkable prediction, the prophet writes in Ezekiel 26:12 (written between 587-586 BC) that the stone, timber and soil of Tyre will be thrown into the sea! This was fulfilled in 333-332 BC.

Ezekiel 26:12
They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

The prophet said that Tyre's stones, timber and soil would be thrown into the sea. That's probably a fitting description of how Alexander the Great built a land bridge from the mainland to the island of Tyre when he attacked in 333-332 BC. It is believed that he took the rubble from Tyre's mainland ruins and tossed it - stones, timber and soil - into the sea, to build the land bridge (which is still there)."

Tyre is mentioned 57 times in scripture. Care to examine archeological evidence and secular history records and then explain how Scriptures are not historical? Then we can try a few dozen more.
 
Muslim-UK

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
"Tyre's Stones, Timber and Soil Will Be Cast Into the Sea
In a remarkable prediction, the prophet writes in Ezekiel 26:12 (written between 587-586 BC) that the stone, timber and soil of Tyre will be thrown into the sea! This was fulfilled in 333-332 BC.
Click to expand...
Problem of course being the earliest Manuscripts of Ezekiel no doubt post date 333-332 BC, thus sceptics could easily point out, the Prophecy could have been written after the events.
 
Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
"Nearly 150 years before Cyrus was born, the prophet Isaiah foretold his birth, his name, and the tasks that the Creator God had predetermined for him to accomplish. The Bible records that certain people are foreordained to be born and carry out specific tasks for God during their lifetime and a few of these individuals are even named before their birth. Cyrus the Great was one of these individuals whom God had predestined to play a pivotal roll in his awesome plan for humanity."

"Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages, King of the Medes. He was born in the province of Persis, in southwest Iran in 590 BC and died in battle in 530 B.C.. He founded the Archaemenian dynasty and the Persian Empire. He overthrew three great empires: the Medes, Lydians, and Babylonians. He also united most of the ancient Middle East into a single state stretching from India to the Mediterranean Sea, which meant that he possessed the largest empire in the world at that time."

You can read all about it in Isaiah, Ezra and Daniel written about the seventh-sixth century BC and in secular history
 
Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
Muslim-UK said:
sceptics could easily point out, the Prophecy could have been written after the events.
Click to expand...

Sure, they can point out anything, the problem is, proving what they point out, that is a little more difficult for them. Why not just claim it could have been written in 1611? Which I have seen some claim, believe it or not.
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
Many, if not most of the Genesis deniers like to scoff and ridicule Scriptures as nothing more than myths and fairy tales. I suppose that is understandable coming from those that are ignorant, willing or not, of scripture. As an example of the Scriptures validity, there are over 100 prophecies that have been fulfilled in history exactly as it was foretold in scripture, below is just one example.

"Tyre's Stones, Timber and Soil Will Be Cast Into the Sea
In a remarkable prediction, the prophet writes in Ezekiel 26:12 (written between 587-586 BC) that the stone, timber and soil of Tyre will be thrown into the sea! This was fulfilled in 333-332 BC.

Ezekiel 26:12
They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

The prophet said that Tyre's stones, timber and soil would be thrown into the sea. That's probably a fitting description of how Alexander the Great built a land bridge from the mainland to the island of Tyre when he attacked in 333-332 BC. It is believed that he took the rubble from Tyre's mainland ruins and tossed it - stones, timber and soil - into the sea, to build the land bridge (which is still there)."

Tyre is mentioned 57 times in scripture. Care to examine archeological evidence and secular history records and then explain how Scriptures are not historical? Then we can try a few dozen more.
Click to expand...
Could you name a single ancient city of importance that has not been sieged, sacked or looted multiple times? It's like "there will be fire" or "there will be floods". Duh. Despite all the curses in the Bible Tyre remained, and remains a big living city.

Tyre, Lebanon - Wikipedia
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
Tyre is mentioned 57 times in scripture. Care to examine archeological evidence and secular history records and then explain how Scriptures are not historical?
Click to expand...
There are tornadoes and farms and dogs and aunties in Kansas. Care to read the Wizard of Oz and tell me that it's not historical?

Your arguments are simply ... what's the right word here? ... stupid.
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
"Nearly 150 years before Cyrus was born, the prophet Isaiah foretold his birth, his name, and the tasks that the Creator God had predetermined for him to accomplish. The Bible records that certain people are foreordained to be born and carry out specific tasks for God during their lifetime and a few of these individuals are even named before their birth. Cyrus the Great was one of these individuals whom God had predestined to play a pivotal roll in his awesome plan for humanity."

"Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages, King of the Medes. He was born in the province of Persis, in southwest Iran in 590 BC and died in battle in 530 B.C.. He founded the Archaemenian dynasty and the Persian Empire. He overthrew three great empires: the Medes, Lydians, and Babylonians. He also united most of the ancient Middle East into a single state stretching from India to the Mediterranean Sea, which meant that he possessed the largest empire in the world at that time."

You can read all about it in Isaiah, Ezra and Daniel written about the seventh-sixth century BC and in secular history
Click to expand...
No. Daniel was written in the 3
nd century BC. After the fact.

Book of Daniel - Wikipedia
Though the book is traditionally ascribed to Daniel himself, modern scholarly consensus considers it pseudonymous, the stories of the first half legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BC).[4]
 
Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
The Coming of the Messiah
In 538 B.C. Daniel wrote the following prediction:

Daniel 9:25
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks of years and sixty-two weeks of years"

This is a very condensed version of the prophecy without going into detail but the prophecy came true just as it was written and to the exact day as proven by Sir Robert Anderson with the help of the London Royal Observatory.
 
Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
sayak83 said:
No. Daniel was written in the 3
nd century BC. After the fact.
Click to expand...
People can make any claim they wish, as is evidenced every day by the posts in this group. But there is a huge difference in making accusations and proving them to be fact.

"The idea that the book of Daniel is of the same genre as the other inter-testament writings is totally FALSE! In fact, Daniel is the prototype! Daniel is the first (and the only) genuine apocalypse in the Hebrew Bible. All later apocalyptic writers subsequently model themselves on the original prophet Daniel of the Babylonian exile! Daniel is a genuine eye witness to the historical events listed in the book that bears his name."

WHEN Was the Book of Daniel Written?
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
People can make any claim they wish, as is evidenced every day by the posts in this group. But there is a huge difference in making accusations and proving them to be fact.

"The idea that the book of Daniel is of the same genre as the other inter-testament writings is totally FALSE! In fact, Daniel is the prototype! Daniel is the first (and the only) genuine apocalypse in the Hebrew Bible. All later apocalyptic writers subsequently model themselves on the original prophet Daniel of the Babylonian exile! Daniel is a genuine eye witness to the historical events listed in the book that bears his name."

WHEN Was the Book of Daniel Written?
Click to expand...
We don't have to prove anything. You have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your Bible contains true prophesies and not after the fact writings of religious fundamentalists of ancient times trying to propagate their faith through false claims.

The crisis which the author of Daniel addresses is the destruction of the altar in Jerusalem in 167 BC (first introduced in chapter 8:11): the daily offering which used to take place twice a day, at morning and evening, stopped, and the phrase "evenings and mornings" recurs through the following chapters as a reminder of the missed sacrifices.[27] But whereas the events leading up to the sacking of the Temple in 167 and the immediate aftermath are remarkably accurate (chapter 11:21–29), the predicted war between the Syrians and the Egyptians (11:40–43) never took place, and the prophecy that Antiochus would die in Palestine (11:44–45) was inaccurate (he died in Persia).[28] The conclusion is that the account must have been completed near the end of the reign of Antiochus but before his death in December 164, or at least before news of it reached Jerusalem.[29]

DatingEdit
The prophecies of Daniel are accurate down to the career of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and oppressor of the Jews, but not in its prediction of his death: the author seems to know about Antiochus' two campaigns in Egypt (169 and 167 BC), the desecration of the Temple (the "abomination of desolation"), and the fortification of the Akra (a fortress built inside Jerusalem), but he seems to know nothing about the reconstruction of the Temple or about the actual circumstances of Antiochus' death in late 164. Chapters 10–12 must therefore have been written between 167 and 164 BC. There is no evidence of a significant time lapse between those chapters and chapters 8 and 9, and chapter 7 may have been written just a few months earlier again.[40]

Further evidence of the book's date is in the fact that Daniel is excluded from the Hebrew Bible's canon of the prophets, which was closed around 200 BC, and the Wisdom of Sirach, a work dating from around 180 BC, draws on almost every book of the Old Testament except Daniel, leading scholars to suppose that its author was unaware of it. Daniel is, however, quoted in a section of the Sibylline Oracles commonly dated to the middle of the 2nd century BC, and was popular at Qumran at much the same time, suggesting that it was known and revered from the middle of that century.[41]


Find me a manuscript of Daniel from 6th century BC, and then we shall have something to discuss.
 
Ted Evans

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
““I will scatter you among the nations and I will disperse you through the lands, and I will consume your uncleanness from you.” (Ezekiel 22:15, NASB95)

“‘Thus says the Lord God, “When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and will manifest My holiness in them in the sight of the nations, then they will live in their land which I gave to My servant Jacob.” (Ezekiel 28:25, NASB95)

May 14, 1948, Israel once more became a Jewish nation after almost 2k years and still speaking their original language. No other people in history has ever done that.

Now tell me again how this was written “after the fact”, can you do that with any evidence to corroborate your answer?
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
Many, if not most of the Genesis deniers like to scoff and ridicule Scriptures as nothing more than myths and fairy tales.
Click to expand...

Anyone who scoffs at myths and fairy tales has a very poor understanding of both. Mythic narratives are central to all human cultures, whether these narratives are couched in a religious context or not. I'd start by getting them to understand the power of myth and story instead of foolishly dismissing its significance and value.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Ted Evans said:
Too bad you have no clue why Daniel is not included in the Hebrew Bible.
Click to expand...
From Wikipedia: Book of Daniel

The Book of Daniel is a biblical apocalypse, combining a prophecy of history with an eschatology (the study of last things) which is both cosmic in scope and political in its focus.[1] In more mundane language, it is "an account of the activities and visions of Daniel, a noble Jew exiled at Babylon."[2] In the Hebrew Bible it is found in the Ketuvim (writings), while in Christian Bibles it is grouped with the Major Prophets.[3]​

See also The Complete Jewish Bible With Rashi Commentary: Daniel

Stop embarrassing yourself.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
By the standard that was set in the OP, the Quran also counts because of what is written in 17:104 (depending on translation)

And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when
the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the
descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall
bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).
[Tafsir Al-Qurtub, Vol. 10, Page 338]
 
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