Other Than "The Bible Tells Me So," Your Single Best Argument for Creationism

Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

Kemosloby said:
There is most likely a Creator otherwise some other life in the vast unifThey haven't found us either...

Correct, because God didn't put life on the other planets. Just here for some reason.

So are you saying that the creation account according to Genesis in the bible is correct?

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
That is all purely speculation.

So is God.

Sonofason · May 16, 2017

Skwim said:
And let's keep it to your single best argument. Don't want to be all over the map.

So, what ya got? Although be aware, non-creationists may take exception, but this should be expected. Shouldn't it?

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In the Bible Jesus promises the Holy Spirit to those who love and obey Him. I put this to the test and received the Holy Spirit...my proof of God's existence. There could be no better evidence of God, than knowing and experiencing Him.

Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

leibowde84 said:
So is God.

Well, look at it this way. The God of the Bible explains what He did and how He did it. No one was around to witness this event except Him, so He reveals how the universe, this planet and all life on this planet was created. I cant nor can anyone else prove that. But if you look at all the diversity of life and you see how all living things reproduce after their own kind in such amazing and unique ways, it makes better sense than the alternative because no one was there to witness that either. So what makes more sense as we look around us at all life today?

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Sonofason said:
In the Bible Jesus promises the Holy Spirit to those who love and obey Him. I put this to the test and received the Holy Spirit...my proof of God's existence. There could be no better evidence of God, than knowing and experiencing Him.

That's not a very good argument, as it is not useful for anyone other than yourself. I'd say it qualifies as personal evidence. But, it isn't a real argument, per se.

Skwim · May 16, 2017

Jose Fly said:
Don't we have a thread on this? And didn't it end up like all the other similar ones I've seen where it ends up being pages and pages of creationists regurgitating tired old arguments against evolution, but no actual arguments for creationism?

Don't like a thread, feel free to ignore it. It's just that simple.

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leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
Well, look at it this way. The God of the Bible explains what He did and how He did it. No one was around to witness this event except Him, so He reveals how the universe, this planet and all life on this planet was created. I cant nor can anyone else prove that. But if you look at all the diversity of life and you see how all living things reproduce after their own kind in such amazing and unique ways, it makes better sense than the alternative because no one was there to witness that either. So what makes more sense as we look around us at all life today?

Where does the Bible explain the method by which God created life?

Evolution makes perfect sense. As does life starting near underwater thermal vents.

Skwim · May 16, 2017

Sonofason said:
In the Bible Jesus promises the Holy Spirit to those who love and obey Him. I put this to the test and received the Holy Spirit...my proof of God's existence. There could be no better evidence of God, than knowing and experiencing Him.

So, *sigh* other than "The Bible Tells Me So," you have no argument for creationism. Fair enough.

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Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

leibowde84 said:
Where does the Bible explain the method by which God created life?

Evolution makes perfect sense. As does life starting near underwater thermal vents.

Most people don't understand the genesis of evolution. If they did, you would see that it makes no sense at all. Let me submit this to you. I'm going to send you a link of a thesis that will answer and educate anyone willing to seek truth in these matters. If you are willing, please read this and let me know what your best argument is for anything here that can be proven to be false. I realize that this may take a little time but it will be well worth your time. http://www.daylightorigins.com/wp-c...ort-history-of-evolution-and-its-problems.pdf

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
Most people don't understand the genesis of evolution. If they did, you would see that it makes no sense at all. Let me submit this to you. I'm going to send you a link of a thesis that will answer and educate anyone willing to seek truth in these matters. If you are willing, please read this and let me know what your best argument is for anything here that can be proven to be false. I realize that this may take a little time but it will be well worth your time. http://www.daylightorigins.com/wp-c...ort-history-of-evolution-and-its-problems.pdf

Can you answer my question first? Where does the Bible explain the method by which God created life?

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
Most people don't understand the genesis of evolution. If they did, you would see that it makes no sense at all. Let me submit this to you. I'm going to send you a link of a thesis that will answer and educate anyone willing to seek truth in these matters. If you are willing, please read this and let me know what your best argument is for anything here that can be proven to be false. I realize that this may take a little time but it will be well worth your time. http://www.daylightorigins.com/wp-c...ort-history-of-evolution-and-its-problems.pdf

Why don't you just pick out some specific points that we can discuss. It is 82 pages, so I'll take a look at it. But, I have studied evolution quite extensively for quite a long time. And, I have never found any aspect of it that doesn't make any sense.

So, what aspects of evolution trouble you. Maybe I can help you to understand them better.

Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

leibowde84 said:
Why don't you just pick out some specific points that we can discuss. It is 82 pages, so I'll take a look at it. But, I have studied evolution quite extensively for quite a long time. And, I have never found any aspect of it that doesn't make any sense.

So, what aspects of evolution trouble you. Maybe I can help you to understand them better.

Again I realize it is lengthy, but its not really 82 pages. It is but not reading, a lot of it is bibliography. It covers every specific point I would make. Yes I could pick one. Abiogenesis. Thats the best one to start with because everything else stems from that. Its also mention in this paper.

Daisies4me · May 16, 2017

Skwim said:
And let's keep it to your single best argument. Don't want to be all over the map.

So, what ya got? Although be aware, non-creationists may take exception, but this should be expected. Shouldn't it?

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(quote)

Hiya Skwim

I am still waiting for the building site materials, with all of the lumber, roofing shingles, etc. ., at the ready, to just jump up and become a house ...
<smile>

peace

Skwim · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
Yes I know it doesnt speak of the origins of life, only speciation. But think about this for a moment. How can speciation exist without understanding what preceeded it?

Tell us why it couldn't. Why is it necessary to understand how life arose in order to understand how speciation takes place? Is it necessary to understand how electricity is made to understand how it is used? Is it necessary to know how cars are manufactured to know how to drive one?

Eventually, you will have to address this critical problem.

Not that origins aren't now being investigated, but why will we have to address this critical problem?

Anyone who will be intellectually honest will realize there are no answers to how life started on this planet.

Not yet anyway. And it's foolish to assert, as you've done, that are no such answers.

Because they donot or will not infer God, they must come up with an answer and thats where for 160 years they have no answer.

They choose not to posit a god as the answer because god is not a concept open to the scientific method. And it's been far longer than 160 years since people thought that some forms of life arose through spontaneous generation from non-living matter. It goes back to Aristotle.

The problems are the chemical mechamisms for life are not there. Neither are the components. This is why scientists still have no answers.

Ever hear of the Dunning–Kruger effect?

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Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

leibowde84 said:
Can you answer my question first? Where does the Bible explain the method by which God created life?

The method? No I cannot. A Supernatural Being such as the biblical God can do whatever He pleases and doesn't need for me to fully understand His method. His method as described in the scriptures is, He spoke everything into existence. He is infinite, I am finite. Do I fully understand infinite? Not really. It would be like me explaining to a toddler how to do a brake job.

Darkstorn · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
The method? No I cannot. A Supernatural Being such as the biblical God can do whatever He pleases and doesn't need for me to fully understand His method. His method as described in the scriptures is, He spoke everything into existence. He is infinite, I am finite. Do I fully understand infinite? Not really. It would be like me explaining to a toddler how to do a brake job.

Then your argument isn't very good, and certainly not effective at convincing those who are specifically looking for an argument OTHER than "the bible tells me so".

Because your entire argument in this thread definitely amounts to exactly that. And since you are incapable of using an argument other than one based on the bible, why are you letting yourself get trapped willfully?

"No 'the bible tells me so' arguments"

"Bu... But the bible..."

Why do you even bother?

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
The method? No I cannot. A Supernatural Being such as the biblical God can do whatever He pleases and doesn't need for me to fully understand His method. His method as described in the scriptures is, He spoke everything into existence. He is infinite, I am finite. Do I fully understand infinite? Not really. It would be like me explaining to a toddler how to do a brake job.

So, creationism per genesis doesn't actually explain how God created everything. It merely suggests that God did it ... and it leaves it at that. Evolution, otoh, actually explains logically how, over billions of years, life evolved from a single source to what we see today.

leibowde84 · May 16, 2017

Rapture Era said:
The method? No I cannot. A Supernatural Being such as the biblical God can do whatever He pleases and doesn't need for me to fully understand His method. His method as described in the scriptures is, He spoke everything into existence. He is infinite, I am finite. Do I fully understand infinite? Not really. It would be like me explaining to a toddler how to do a brake job.

All in all, isn't your argument basically just that "the Bible says ..."

Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

Skwim said:
Tell us why it couldn't. Why is it necessary to understand how life arose in order to understand how speciation takes place? Is it necessary to understand how electricity is made to understand how it is used? Is it necessary to know how cars are manufactured to know how to drive one?
Dont you need electricity to be able to use it? Dont you need a car in the first place to be able to drive it? How can you have speciation without life to beget speciation?

Not that origins aren't now being investigated, but why will we have to address this critical problem?
Because if Darwinian origins are false, its a critical problem dont you think?

Not yet anyway. And it's foolish to assert, as you've done, that are no such answers.
Are there? Please support your truth by scientific method. What can you show me that will prove your point?

They choose not to posit a god as the answer because god is not a concept open to the scientific method. And it's been far longer than 160 years since people thought that some forms of life arose through spontaneous generation from non-living matter. It goes back to Aristotle.
Ok, tell me what has changed in the scientific method to support evolution from Aristotle to 160 years ago to today?

Ever hear of the Dunning–Kruger effect?
How is this relevant to evolution?

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Rapture Era · May 16, 2017

leibowde84 said:
So, creationism per genesis doesn't actually explain how God created everything. It merely suggests that God did it ... and it leaves it at that. Evolution, otoh, actually explains logically how, over billions of years, life evolved from a single source to what we see today.

What was the logical single source and how did it evolve to everything we see today? Please submit the details and method.

Other Than "The Bible Tells Me So," Your Single Best Argument for Creationism

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