Some questions for Pagans

Weeping Raven · Apr 10, 2017

Hello everyone,

Last month I set out to discover more about my beliefs and build upon those I already had. This involved starting to read the bible and write down my own beliefs on paper, to better understand and build on them.

I've always held an interest in paganism, first Norse, then Greek, as well as Egyptian. However I've never felt much, if any, connection to these, they feel very foreign to me and it would feel odd to worship another cultures gods, as I'm British. I also have a bit of Irish in me and Western European (France & Low Countries) though that's only a small percentage.

I want to get to know the old gods of my people better, however I'm rather lost as to where to begin. I'm also lacking in much time to research, so I hope to compress it by utilising the large amount of knowledge from RF.

Also my own beliefs is that god is a sentient energy that is in everything, though there is far more of god in things close to nature or their original form. So for example, an Oak tree has much more than a wooden table made from it. Are there any existing pagan religions with a similar belief?

I'll sum up all my questions, for those not wanting to read through my long winded nonsense above.

Where to start, to learn more about the Pre-Christian religions of England and Ireland.
Are there any existing pagan religions with the same belief as me? (god is in everything).
Is it OK to worship another cultures gods? Do any of you here do that? What are your thoughts on it.

My apologies if I've misused any terms.

VioletVortex · Apr 10, 2017

1. Great Britain and Ireland were settled by various groups. The first were the Celts, who came from the Alps, were present day Switzerland is. The Celts had their own form of Paganism, unfortunately however, we do not know very much about it. The predominant form of Celtic reconstructionism is Druidry, which is sort of a nature worshipping philosophy with a rather blank slate regarding deities and morals. Wicca was inspired by Celtic Paganism as well. The Angles and Saxons from Germany also settled in the region, and they were Germanic Pagans, revering the same pantheon as the Norse, who arrived later, mainly in Ireland and Scotland. The main form of Paganism in ancient England was Anglo-Saxon Heathenry.

2. Pantheism is the name given to the belief that god is within everything, and that everything physical is just a manifestation of the divine. It is not inherently a form of Paganism, but some Pagans hold this belief.

3. Paganism in the strictest sense refers to Indo-European religion. Because all of these religions descend from the same cultural root, most of the gods are shared under different names. For example, Donar is the German name for Thor or Zeus. They are different names for the same deities. In some instances, two gods got merged into one, or one split into two, but for the most part, the different forms of Paganism are different paths to the same goal, therefore, if you find meaning in other Pagan deities, then you could use the two different names in different contexts.

Quintessence · Apr 10, 2017

You've picked a challenging historical Paganism to ground your practice in. The information scholars have to work with from the British Isles is scant - often in the form of third-party references or works that have been heavily Christianized. This makes it difficult if not impossible to tell where the "genuine" Pagan lore is in works like the Mabinogion. It's been lost to history. I would probably start with a book like this: The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles Hutton is one of the foremost historians and scholars of the Paganisms of the British Isles, and this is one of his works on the subject. His works are dense and intended more for scholarly audiences, but there is so much fakelore out there with Celtic stuff in particular it's good to at least know what the good historical/scholarly references are. That said, when it comes to inspiration for a religious path, historicity is, IMO, irrelevant. There's certainly a rich tradition of revisionism and inventiveness with the Pagan cultures of the Isles, such as the works of Iolo Morganwg and "Celtic Christianity" or explorations of Arthurian Legend.

With respect to the question of beliefs, beliefs are really less important to Paganisms than practices are. I would start more by asking what you do. And focus a lot on that. These are paths of doing things and directly experiencing the gods for yourself. Book research doesn't get you that. If your interest in Paganisms is solely academic, I would keep it that way.

And that question about is it okay to honor gods from other cultures? This is polytheism, not exclusivist monotheism that demands "one god and no others." Exclusivism like that was invented by the monotheists and it has no place in polytheistic religion. Limiting oneself to some cultural pantheon is a personal choice, never a dictum.

VioletVortex · Apr 10, 2017

Quintessence said:
You've picked a challenging historical Paganism to ground your practice in. The information scholars have to work with from the British Isles is scant - often in the form of third-party references or works that have been heavily Christianized. This makes it difficult if not impossible to tell where the "genuine" Pagan lore is in works like the Mabinogion. It's been lost to history. I would probably start with a book like this: The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles Hutton is one of the foremost historians and scholars of the Paganisms of the British Isles, and this is one of his works on the subject. His works are dense and intended more for scholarly audiences, but there is so much fakelore out there with Celtic stuff in particular it's good to at least know what the good historical/scholarly references are. That said, when it comes to inspiration for a religious path, historicity is, IMO, irrelevant. There's certainly a rich tradition of revisionism and inventiveness with the Pagan cultures of the Isles, such as the works of Iolo Morganwg and "Celtic Christianity" or explorations of Arthurian Legend.

With respect to the question of beliefs, beliefs are really less important to Paganisms than practices are. I would start more by asking what you do. And focus a lot on that. These are paths of doing things and directly experiencing the gods for yourself. Book research doesn't get you that. If your interest in Paganisms is solely academic, I would keep it that way.

And that question about is it okay to honor gods from other cultures? This is polytheism, not exclusivist monotheism that demands "one god and no others." Exclusivism like that was invented by the monotheists and it has no place in polytheistic religion. Limiting oneself to some cultural pantheon is a personal choice, never a dictum.

It's a huge shame that Celtic and Slavic forms of Paganism have been lost to Christianity. Though, we can assume that both revere the Indo-European pantheon. We just don't know what they called their gods. Being someone with close ancestral ties to Celtic culture, I've been considering looking in to Celtic Paganism, though I am currently unsure as to whether it resonates with me.

The Kilted Heathen · Apr 13, 2017

We've got several names for both Celtic (of varying regions) and Slavic deities. As well as many Slavic festivals. They were not entirely lost to history.

lovesong · Apr 15, 2017

Weeping Raven said:
Is it OK to worship another cultures gods? Do any of you here do that? What are your thoughts on it.

Absolutely! I honor all pantheons (you could say I'm a bit of a non-Abrahamic omnist of sorts), and have never encountered any problems when working with gods to which I have no ancestral ties.

Quintessence said:
With respect to the question of beliefs, beliefs are really less important to Paganisms than practices are. I would start more by asking what you do. And focus a lot on that. These are paths of doing things and directly experiencing the gods for yourself. Book research doesn't get you that. If your interest in Paganisms is solely academic, I would keep it that way.

I would really disagree with this. Practices are important to some groups, but it isn't a necessity for Paganism as a whole, and saying that one is more important overall is a big generalization. A person can get by as a Pagan just fine by having firm beliefs and doing their research and reading. A person is no less of one if they don't practice some form of ritual, and actively having a practice does not make one person a better Pagan than another. The importance of belief versus practice is a personal thing, and every individual will have their own opinion on which is more valuable. For me personally, they are both important but I look more towards what a person actually believes before I look at what they do. Beliefs set the worldview, and practices express it. For me, the worldview a person has is much more important than how they choose to act on it. There are so many situational factors that can determine if and how a person practices, whereas beliefs reveal a level of personal information about a person that transcends situational circumstances (such as space to practice, money for tools, resources, etc.).

Weeping Raven · Apr 16, 2017

Hammerheart said:
1. Great Britain and Ireland were settled by various groups. The first were the Celts, who came from the Alps, were present day Switzerland is. The Celts had their own form of Paganism, unfortunately however, we do not know very much about it. The predominant form of Celtic reconstructionism is Druidry, which is sort of a nature worshipping philosophy with a rather blank slate regarding deities and morals. Wicca was inspired by Celtic Paganism as well. The Angles and Saxons from Germany also settled in the region, and they were Germanic Pagans, revering the same pantheon as the Norse, who arrived later, mainly in Ireland and Scotland. The main form of Paganism in ancient England was Anglo-Saxon Heathenry.

2. Pantheism is the name given to the belief that god is within everything, and that everything physical is just a manifestation of the divine. It is not inherently a form of Paganism, but some Pagans hold this belief.

3. Paganism in the strictest sense refers to Indo-European religion. Because all of these religions descend from the same cultural root, most of the gods are shared under different names. For example, Donar is the German name for Thor or Zeus. They are different names for the same deities. In some instances, two gods got merged into one, or one split into two, but for the most part, the different forms of Paganism are different paths to the same goal, therefore, if you find meaning in other Pagan deities, then you could use the two different names in different contexts.

Thank you! Much appreciated, you've been helpful as ever. I find pantheism to be a confusing term and I've seen several different definitions.

Quintessence said:
You've picked a challenging historical Paganism to ground your practice in. The information scholars have to work with from the British Isles is scant - often in the form of third-party references or works that have been heavily Christianized. This makes it difficult if not impossible to tell where the "genuine" Pagan lore is in works like the Mabinogion. It's been lost to history. I would probably start with a book like this: The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles Hutton is one of the foremost historians and scholars of the Paganisms of the British Isles, and this is one of his works on the subject. His works are dense and intended more for scholarly audiences, but there is so much fakelore out there with Celtic stuff in particular it's good to at least know what the good historical/scholarly references are. That said, when it comes to inspiration for a religious path, historicity is, IMO, irrelevant. There's certainly a rich tradition of revisionism and inventiveness with the Pagan cultures of the Isles, such as the works of Iolo Morganwg and "Celtic Christianity" or explorations of Arthurian Legend.

With respect to the question of beliefs, beliefs are really less important to Paganisms than practices are. I would start more by asking what you do. And focus a lot on that. These are paths of doing things and directly experiencing the gods for yourself. Book research doesn't get you that. If your interest in Paganisms is solely academic, I would keep it that way.

And that question about is it okay to honor gods from other cultures? This is polytheism, not exclusivist monotheism that demands "one god and no others." Exclusivism like that was invented by the monotheists and it has no place in polytheistic religion. Limiting oneself to some cultural pantheon is a personal choice, never a dictum.

I'll look into getting that book, I've seen it recommended a few times now. Thank you for the reply, you've been very helpful.

lovesong said:
Absolutely! I honor all pantheons (you could say I'm a bit of a non-Abrahamic omnist of sorts), and have never encountered any problems when working with gods to which I have no ancestral ties.

I would really disagree with this. Practices are important to some groups, but it isn't a necessity for Paganism as a whole, and saying that one is more important overall is a big generalization. A person can get by as a Pagan just fine by having firm beliefs and doing their research and reading. A person is no less of one if they don't practice some form of ritual, and actively having a practice does not make one person a better Pagan than another. The importance of belief versus practice is a personal thing, and every individual will have their own opinion on which is more valuable. For me personally, they are both important but I look more towards what a person actually believes before I look at what they do. Beliefs set the worldview, and practices express it. For me, the worldview a person has is much more important than how they choose to act on it. There are so many situational factors that can determine if and how a person practices, whereas beliefs reveal a level of personal information about a person that transcends situational circumstances (such as space to practice, money for tools, resources, etc.).

Thanks very much for the response. Currently I haven't much time for practicing, so what you said is very true.

Quintessence · Apr 17, 2017

Keep in mind that when I say "practicing" I do not necessarily mean formal ritual. Practicing also means embodying one's religion as a way of life, which often extends from things like beliefs/values as well. I'll still stand by that if you aren't practicing a religion - either as an integral part of your way of life and/or through rituals - one is not an adherent of that religion. It can often be small practices, like paying attention to the gods around you as you walk in to work in the morning. It doesn't have to be some elaborate five hour rite, but practice and doing stuff is key.

Some questions for Pagans

Weeping Raven

One lost Raven

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member

Quintessence

Consults with Trees

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR

lovesong

:D

Weeping Raven

One lost Raven

Quintessence

Consults with Trees