Eating With Sinners

MHz said:

You keep saying divorce is a sin, just which one of the 10 Commandments does divorce break?

Click to expand...

That is an interesting take you gave. I don't really have a problem with divorce, its just an example I through out there (knowing better too), that kinda side tracked the conversation.

MHz said:

Since I have been replying I would have to go with that I'm not afraid to talk about anything the Bible covers and straight answers vary in length because each topic varies in how many passages mention that particular subject.
If you are a believer and you happen to be hanging with sinners on the day the 7th trump sounds I can assure you the book says you will be withem them for the next 1,000 years (in hell) rather than being alive with the believers who were not hanging around sinners. Your choice.

Re:9:20:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship devils,
and idols of gold,
and silver,
and brass,
and stone,
and of wood:
which neither can see,
nor hear,
nor walk:
Re:9:21:
Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries,
nor of their fornication,
nor of their thefts.

Having Daniel around won't save you if you are a sinner, it doesn't gate any plainer than that.

Eze:14:20:
Though Noah,
Daniel,
and Job,
were in it,
as I live,
saith the Lord GOD,
they shall deliver neither son nor daughter;
they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

You can eat with a stranger in public, in your home that is more likely to be somebody that is considered to be a friend. The passage that the not eating comes from uses adultery but the same result would apply to anybody that is breaking any of the 10 Commandments.

What you are suggestion is intentionally sinning with the expectation that grace will cover it. That is not the way grace works so those sins would not be forgiven.

Ro:5:19-21:
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered,
that the offence might abound.
But where sin abounded,
grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro:6:1:
What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin,
that grace may abound?
Ro:6:2:
God forbid.
How shall we,
that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?

The worst that can happen is you make your home outside of New Jerusalem rather than living inside New Jerusalem for the eternity that is the time the new earth exists.

Why worry about a 3rd marriage, the 2nd marriage is the one that puts you into sin if the first divorce is for any reason other than adultery. You keep saying divorce is a sin, just which one of the 10 Commandments does divorce break?

Click to expand...

According to Luke it really doesn't matter the company you keep, even in the end days.
Luke 17
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

idav said:

According to Luke it really doesn't matter the company you keep, even in the end days.
Luke 17
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Click to expand...

Yet Peter is pretty clear that during the 3 1/2 years that are the first two 'woes on the inhabitants of the earth' you conduct is quite important.

1Pe:4:12-19:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing,
as unto a faithful Creator.

Matthew:25 seems to be about that specific period of time also, examples where being prepared and being found doing what you are supposed to be doing and that is during the trumps as it is that generation that will be killed by Christ's sword and be sent to hell as in Isaiah:65 and other places.

idav said:

Is it OK to eat with sinners according to scripture? Does Paul contradict Jesus regarding eating with sinners?

Mark 2
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators; 10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world: 11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat. 12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

Click to expand...

Paul did not contradict the Lord Jesus Christ with respect to "eating" The scenarios are different from each other.

With regards to the Lord Jesus Christ (in reference to Mark 5), he also said this:

Matthew 9:13 New International Version (NIV)

But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

With regards to Apostle Paul (1 Cor 5) it is a different kind of eating:

1 Corinthians 5:6-11 Good News Translation (GNT)

It is not right for you to be proud! You know the saying, “A little bit of yeast makes the whole batch of dough rise.” You must remove the old yeast of sin so that you will be entirely pure. Then you will be like a new batch of dough without any yeast, as indeed I know you actually are. For our Passover Festival is ready, now that Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us celebrate our Passover, then, not with bread having the old yeast of sin and wickedness, but with the bread that has no yeast, the bread of purity and truth.

In the letter that I wrote you I told you not to associate with immoral people. Now I did not mean pagans who are immoral or greedy or are thieves, or who worship idols. To avoid them you would have to get out of the world completely. What I meant was that you should not associate with a person who calls himself a believer but is immoral or greedy or worships idols or is a slanderer or a drunkard or a thief. Don't even sit down to eat with such a person.

What is the difference? Paul's eating is about the commemoration of the Lord's Supper not some ordinary meal (like the one Jesus had dinner at Levi’s house).

1 Corinthians 10:14-20 New International Version (NIV)

Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

Apostle Paul addressed that people who are very sinful should not eat the Lord's Supper otherwise they will only bring swift Judgment on themselves.

1 Corinthians 11:29-31 New International Version (NIV)

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

This is not a simple dinner, this one is much much more sacred - the Holy Supper of the Lord Jesus Christ being done by the Church of Christ in the first century and in the last days.

idav said:

Is it OK to eat with sinners according to scripture? Does Paul contradict Jesus regarding eating with sinners?

Mark 2
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators; 10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world: 11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat. 12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

Click to expand...

Even when you think you're alone at the dinner table, you're sitting with a sinner who will perish soon. Only the spirit of man remains in the spirit of God as the flesh perishes.

MHz said:

Yet Peter is pretty clear that during the 3 1/2 years that are the first two 'woes on the inhabitants of the earth' you conduct is quite important.

1Pe:4:12-19:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing,
as unto a faithful Creator.

Matthew:25 seems to be about that specific period of time also, examples where being prepared and being found doing what you are supposed to be doing and that is during the trumps as it is that generation that will be killed by Christ's sword and be sent to hell as in Isaiah:65 and other places.

Click to expand...

The scripture I quoted doesn't contradict that and shows it isn't that simple. The verse shows that one can be saved of two "sinners".

MJFlores said:

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Click to expand...

...which means cutting other people off from communion is drinking judgment upon oneself. That's the whole point if what he's talking about. "Let the little children come unto me, for such is the kingdom of God." You are welcome to disagree, but... please don't. I have found through personal experience that God does not respect the divisions people make, and if you divide the body of Christ by judging who is part and who isn't you are only judging yourself. It is a pointless and harmful exercise I say. Instead go over to another church where there are people who disagree and maybe even who seem to have no sense and no Bible training, and invite them to communion. Throw them a party. Love them and pray for God to overlook any sins in doctrines from all present without pointing fingers, and you will have the best most productive communion ever. Do an experiment ... try it for a month or two if you think I'm wrong.

MJFlores said:

Apostle Paul addressed that people who are very sinful should not eat the Lord's Supper otherwise they will only bring swift Judgment on themselves.

Click to expand...

Huge disagreement here. Its like you are stabbing your self and sayings its fine as long as you drink up the blood. What can I say to make you consider communing with people who disagree. What do you think of First Corinthians and Paul's comments extending into his discussion of the benefits of communing with people you disagree with? "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."(I Corinthians 9:22) Become weak I suggest. Become a fool. I suggest you consider whether I Corinthians 11:17 might not be fairly leveled at you. He says he does not like that there are divisions among them, and I really think this is related to your refusal to commune with other Christians who you see as less fortunate. It is your own misfortune I think to withhold all that you have to offer and in turn not to receive. Let your compassion replace your circumspection, and you will not go wrong.

MJFlores said:

It is not right for you to be proud! You know the saying, “A little bit of yeast makes the whole batch of dough rise.” You must remove the old yeast of sin so that you will be entirely pure. Then you will be like a new batch of dough without any yeast, as indeed I know you actually are. For our Passover Festival is ready, now that Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us celebrate our Passover, then, not with bread having the old yeast of sin and wickedness, but with the bread that has no yeast, the bread of purity and truth.

Click to expand...

Bread without yeast will never "rise" to the occasion.

Brickjectivity said:

I have found through personal experience that God does not respect the divisions people make, and if you divide the body of Christ by judging who is part and who isn't you are only judging yourself.

Click to expand...

God will judge as we judge others. Best to go the "benefit of the doubt" path wherever possible so as to not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Brickjectivity said:

"To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."(I Corinthians 9:22)

Click to expand...

So, a natural politician then.

Open letter to Aesop:

Yo, man:

Love your work. HUGELY. You get to the point a lot faster than those Grimm guys over in Germany. If I recall, you were just a slave, so with your logic, I should discount whatever you say because slaves are dumb per your masters, anyway. Thoughts?

From a Fan,
Kelly

idav said:

Is it OK to eat with sinners according to scripture? Does Paul contradict Jesus regarding eating with sinners?

Mark 2
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators; 10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world: 11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat. 12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

Click to expand...

Idav,
You answered your own question, about Jesus, and anyone called a sinner.
Notice 1Corinthians 5:11, where Paul said to stop keeping company with anyone called a BROTHER. That means anyone who was a baptized Christian, who followed The WAY, Acts 9:2.