Who does God want the Antichrist to be?

whirlingmerc · Dec 29, 2016

There is an assumption in the thread that because God intended something, it is for immediate good not overall good.

Joseph's brothers selling him to slavery, Pharaoh opposing Israel, Babylon conquering the nations, Romans crucifying Jesus all led to a greater good by design of God but was not as an end in itself good. God sometimes does something to set up to demonstrate it is unworthy or trust, a false god, or sometimes to judged, punish or correct a situation. Sometimes God uses a bad situation for a greater good and Joseph told his brothers

'you meant it for evil being [i.e. sold to slavery] but God meant it for good in sending me ahead that many people might be preserved alive from G

Janet Waters said:
I know nothing about what man has deemed as the "Christian gap" theory....I speak of Biblical Doctrine....not theories.

The book of Genesis was originally written by Moses and rewritten over time by scribes and translated by other actors. The information about the creation of the earth (ect) was known by earlier prophets who also wrote these things down. Moses apparently had possession of these writings (in some form) and included them with his writings.

Moses also was instructed by God and he wrote the things according to God's will. Other prophets and apostles spoke as they were moved upon by the Holy Spirit and these things were written down (by themselves, by scribes, or written down afterwards through oral tradition).

But generally speaking----holy men wrote the Bible under the direction of the Spirit of God and these things were copied by scribes over thousands of years and then translated into our present text by those who were (or not) authorized to do so. The natural order of translation was to be done by prophets and apostles (not even scribes) who were authorized by God to do so.

However, there were good men who worked on the translation of the Bible who received some inspiration as well as did the best according their own genius (for their day and time).

The Gap theory suggests there is a gap between genesis 1:1 and 1:2 which I think is a misunderstanding and doesn't help. It used to be more popular and seems on the way out.
"The earth was formless and void' is better that 'the earth became formless and void'

In the end Moses spoke to God over 40 years so I would believe God would have Moses 'get the story straight' better than any editor and have high confidence in the renderings in the scriptures.
Moses had possession of other things like the book of Adam but since he spoke with God over 40 years could save the essentials and what was approved by God

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

wizanda said:
Let start of with what prophecies define it, and what are Anti-Christ's teachings to begin with.....

John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros) contradict Yeshua's teachings completely; thus when the church is heading in the wrong way to begin, that is a start to recognizing their jesus is the false messiah prophesied.

John made many of the literal 'Anti-Christ' worded statements.

Paul creates the idea of a lawless one that shall come, called 'the son of perdition'.

The rest of the real prophets, say it is a false religion where they're teachings are the same as Christianity is teaching.

Revelation's 3 false teacher frogs are John the dragon, that tried to speak like the Lamb, which gives its power to the beast (Pauline Christianity).

The name jesus is an insult, which can be translated as Lord of the beasts, the name Jehovah means lord of Mischief...

The name Yeshua means salvation, and the name Yah-Avah means Lord To Be.

Everything the church has established is built upon lies, and against God; thus when the fire comes, all that follow it will be removed.

Some reasons not to follow it, they make a covenant with death, that life is here to suffer, that they're to be hated by everyone, and rejoice in it, that you're to become self-righteous, and unquestionable, the list is endless why you wouldn't want to be an Anti-Christ's teachings follower.

As for someone coming along to convince the whole world of another lie, one is enough, most people haven't even noticed the gospel of John is made up in two thousand years, and no one has noticed Simon was called the stone (petros) to fulfill prophecy.

While I agree with you---about the whole idea about the eventual Apostasy of the primitive Church of Jesus Christ (which thing the apostles prophesied would happen before Christ's Second Coming). And I agree about some inaccuracy of Biblical translation which was made over time (but mostly because the plain and precious parts which were taken out of the text by The Great Abominable Church to confuse the people).

However, I still recognize the authenticity of the Bible and the value it still brings mankind. As well as saying....that the apostles themselves were authorized and ordained ministers who did their job well and sealed their witness with their own blood. Peter, James, John, and Paul (ect) were men of God and they were true messengers to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Great Apostasy from truth.....came after their deaths....through the Roman preoccupation.....which was used to control the mind and will of the people.

jeager106 · Dec 29, 2016

Welcome Janet and please add more posts to this forum.
I liked your post and it made sense.

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

whirlingmerc said:
The Gap theory suggests there is a gap between genesis 1:1 and 1:2 which I think is a misunderstanding and doesn't help. It used to be more popular and seems on the way out.
"The earth was formless and void' is better that 'the earth became formless and void'

In the end Moses spoke to God over 40 years so I would believe God would have Moses 'get the story straight' better than any editor and have high confidence in the renderings in the scriptures.

Moses had possession of other things like the book of Adam but since he spoke with God over 40 years could save the essentials and what was approved by God

Thank you for the information. I see what you mean. I don't know if you noticed, but I am LDS and this discrepancy was further elaborated on by The Book of Abraham (which is part of our cannon). Here are the differences between these two records:

Genesis 1:1-4
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Abraham 4:1-4
1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

Notice the different choice of words (created vs organized and then formed) between the two contexts. One word "create" supports a later Christian theory that was believed about the earth (that it was created out of nothing). But Abraham's earlier writing supports the idea that heavenly matter was organized together to create the formation of the earth. So we knowing that the Genesis account was edited and simplified (and that over-simplification may cause some confusion). But we didn't stop at that "over-simplification" because this other account broke it down (the two parts of creation---organizing matter which causes the form to emerge) and so it was more clear in our thinking.

whirlingmerc · Dec 29, 2016

Janet Waters said:
Thank you for the information. I see what you mean. I don't know if you noticed, but I am LDS and this discrepancy was further elaborated on by The Book of Abraham (which is part of our cannon). Here are the differences between these two records:

Genesis 1:1-4
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Abraham 4:1-4
1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

Notice the different choice of words (created vs organized and then formed) between the two contexts. One word "create" supports a later Christian theory that was believed about the earth (that it was created out of nothing). But Abraham's earlier writing supports the idea that heavenly matter was organized together to create the formation of the earth. So we knowing that the Genesis account was edited and simplified (and that over-simplification may cause some confusion). But we didn't stop at that "over-simplification" because this other account broke it down (the two parts of creation---organizing matter which causes the form to emerge) and so it was more clear in our thinking.

Yes, there is a view that God made the world like one might make a bed out of things that are. I think some places support speaking out of nothing and some support making out of something... clearly making man out of the dust is the latter The people were made 'tofu bofu' out of nothing in Egypt from slaves to Pharaoh to be free to serve God and the 'tofu bofu' phrase for made out of nothing of Genesis is used in Exodus but of a people

Not sure about the book of Abraham, but the Bible mentions a book of Adam
and it appears Moses may have obtained the book of Job from somewhere and brought to the Jews in Egypt as a comfort.

I don't run into allot of LDS people for some reason. I have a high view of the scriptures and probably not seeing eye to eye with the corruption views but good to explain your point of view.

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

jeager106 said:
Welcome Janet and please add more posts to this forum.
I liked your post and it made sense.

Thank you!!

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

whirlingmerc said:
Yes, there is a view that God made the world like one might make a bed out of things that are. I think some places support speaking out of nothing and some support making out of something... clearly making man out of the dust is the latter The people were made 'tofu bofu' out of nothing in Egypt from slaves to Pharaoh to be free to serve God and the 'tofu bofu' phrase for made out of nothing of Genesis is used in Exodus but of a people

Not sure about the book of Abraham, but the Bible mentions a book of Adam
and it appears Moses may have obtained the book of Job from somewhere and brought to the Jews in Egypt as a comfort.

I don't run into allot of LDS people for some reason. I have a high view of the scriptures and probably not seeing eye to eye with the corruption views but good to explain your point of view.

LDS Doctrine teaches that ALL things were organized from spirit matter (eternal mater) before it was physically formed. Not only the earth, but all beings were spiritually created before it was physically born/created.

Here is Joseph Smith's translation of Genesis 1:1-4:

Moses 2:1-4
1 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and I caused darkness to come up upon the face of the deep; and my Spirit moved upon the face of the water; for I am God.

3 And I, God, said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And I, God, saw the light; and that light was good. And I, God, divided the light from the darkness.

I think that Jews and Christians alike would have difficulty with this interpretation....thinking that Moses knew nothing of God's Only Begotten Son (referring to Jesus Christ before his physical birth). But the spirit of Jesus Christ existed before he was physicaly born on the earth....he was the God of Isreal....known as Jehovah/ Yehovah. It was Jehovah/Jesus Christ (Only Begotten Son) under the direction of God the Father-----who created (organized and formed) the heaven and the earth. Notice that we are neither Trinitarian nor Unitarian---to come to this conclusion.

Spiderman · Dec 29, 2016

If the Antichrist conquers the world or a big chunk of it, I don't think it isn't without the help of Divine Providence

AlexandertheGreat · Dec 29, 2016

The Koran best sums up the Antichrist. He will be an alien god who will come here from space and claim to be Allah. He will have god like power/s and he will be able to blow up cities. He will not be a man born on planet earth but he will be the devil.

hatonn is already claiming to be Allah and claiming he will come down to rule us all. He is in charge of the alien faction the Tall Whites. I have talked to Allah and he told me hatonn is the Antichrist, however Jesus will kill him but until that point we need to put up a good fight so he doesnt blow up too many cities

Allah willed the Zamasu arc in DBS to give us an insight into hatonns character and what he will do.

The end time battle and dialogue between Jesus and hatonn will be something like this.

jeager106 · Dec 29, 2016

AlexandertheGreat said:
The Koran best sums up the Antichrist. He will be an alien god who will come here from space and claim to be Allah. He will have god like power/s and he will be able to blow up cities. He will not be a man born on planet earth but he will be the devil.

hatonn is already claiming to be Allah and claiming he will come down to rule us all. He is in charge of the alien faction the Tall Whites.

Ah, a great beginning for a science fiction novel.

Shadow Wolf · Dec 29, 2016

loverofhumanity said:
The spirit of the age on a whole is irreligious or anti-Christ.

Some of us do see that as a good thing.

savagewind said:
New I think I can safely say that scripture has always been used to mark people.

That would be accurate as far as I know. I mean, I can't say it has literally always been used that way, but there are more than enough examples of it happening over the last ~2000 years to estimate it probably is correct.

Shadow Wolf · Dec 29, 2016

jeager106 said:
Ah, a great beginning for a science fiction novel.

So is a giant tower reaching for the heavens and suddenly everyone speaks a different language.

omega2xx · Dec 29, 2016

savagewind said:
Do you think men despise religion because it is wrong? If they hate it because it is wrong then they are right.

That is what Pascal said, but I believe it to be true. Religion is wrong, Christianity is not.

Please look up anti yourself and do not forget that it is warned the wolves shall look like sheep.

Anti mean to oppose. It is written Jesus is for freedom, but people have set their heart on obeying what they believe the Bible says. To obey is to oppose freedom. Isn't it? [

Anti basically means "against" something. The anti-christ is against Jesus and what He stands for. To obey is just the opposite. Doing what is right is what makes us free. Biblically speaking it means we are no longer under the law as a means of becoming righteousness.

Why not let's define freedom? "The right to think as one will without hindrance."

Freedom---Doing what is right.

Hindrance:

Please accept facts and be on your way.........

If you ever present any, I will consider it.

It is a FACT that people who use the Bible to live by are not free.

It is a FACT that those who live by the Bible are the only ones who Are free.

The problem, of course, is that the goal of freedom is actually in the Bible.
@PopeADope might be right.

If you believe anything he says, you are worse off than I thought.

People follow what the Bible says. Is this not a fact?
What if something in the Bible that they follow is wrong? Can they still be following the Christ?
I think not. Am I wrong?

People try to follow the Bible. No one follows it 100% of the time.

If the Bible says something that is wrong, it is not from God.

Sleeppy · Dec 29, 2016

The lies are overwhelmingly received before the truths, in any interpretation.

But, everything happens according to God. God is God. It sounds redundant, but that redundancy serves to illustrate what is overlooked.

Wayofthespirit · Dec 29, 2016

Janet Waters said:
Thank you for the information. I see what you mean. I don't know if you noticed, but I am LDS .

Yes, I had noticed and I see nothing more wrong in that than I see in every other of man's attempts to create God in their own image.
I'm sure it's right for you, just as is everyone else's religious inclination.
Hold fast to what is right for you....in the words of St Francis of Assisi "Preach your Gospel by all means, BUT ONLY USE WORDS AS A LAST RESORT".
LDS is at it's best when it reaches out in practical help to those in need without telling people what it thinks God to have said and to have meant by it.

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

whirlingmerc said:
Yes, there is a view that God made the world like one might make a bed out of things that are. I think some places support speaking out of nothing and some support making out of something... clearly making man out of the dust is the latter The people were made 'tofu bofu' out of nothing in Egypt from slaves to Pharaoh to be free to serve God and the 'tofu bofu' phrase for made out of nothing of Genesis is used in Exodus but of a people

Not sure about the book of Abraham, but the Bible mentions a book of Adam
and it appears Moses may have obtained the book of Job from somewhere and brought to the Jews in Egypt as a comfort.

I don't run into allot of LDS people for some reason. I have a high view of the scriptures and probably not seeing eye to eye with the corruption views but good to explain your point of view.

Oh I definately have always had a high opinion and devotion to the Bible. But I also recognize that over time, that there were unintentional errors by scribes and unauthorized translations, as well as intentional subtractions of many plain and simple doctrines taken out of from text (for political reasons).

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

PopeADope said:
If the Antichrist conquers the world or a big chunk of it, I don't think it isn't without the help of Divine Providence

Personally I would not say that God HELPS Satan do anything, but rather, I would say, that God is All-Knowing (able to see in the future) and in the day He created The Plan of Salvation He already knew how Satan would try to overturn it, and because of this, there were already provisions in the Plan to undermine Satan's attempts to overturn it. God has His Plan and He works that Plan, Satan on the other hand, tries to "out-smart" God but in the final analysis Satan is not successful in doing so. God's plan counters Satan's objectives all along the way and does not allow Satan to overstep certain boundaries.

It is all about the stradegy of the Battle. It may appear that Satan is winning individual wars---but he will not win the over-all battle. God's objective is to win the Battle. So no, God is not HELPING Satan do anything.

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

Sleeppy said:
The lies are overwhelmingly received before the truths, in any interpretation.

But, everything happens according to God. God is God. It sounds redundant, but that redundancy serves to illustrate what is overlooked.

We have Agency---the freedom of choice, but we do not have the freedom to choose the consequences of those choices. People are allowed to make bad choices, however that should not imply that God is implicit in those bad choices. God knows what we are going to do before we do it. But if our bad choices stand in the way of God's purposes (that must be fulfilled)----God can turn that negative situation and turn it into a positive, which He then can use to accomplish His will (instead of our will).

Janet Waters · Dec 29, 2016

Wayofthespirit said:
Yes, I had noticed and I see nothing more wrong in that than I see in every other of man's attempts to create God in their own image.
I'm sure it's right for you, just as is everyone else's religious inclination.

My desire is not to create God in my own image. Especially when I am a imperfect person---I do not desire God to be imperfect like I am. I would rather allow God to change me, my imperfections, and my misunderstandings, so that I could be more like Him (as I learn of His perfect ways) and I attempt to emulate Him and His ways (with my limited abilities).

Wayofthespirit said:
Hold fast to what is right for you....in the words of St Francis of Assisi "Preach your Gospel by all means, BUT ONLY USE WORDS AS A LAST RESORT".
LDS is at it's best when it reaches out in practical help to those in need without telling people what it thinks God to have said and to have meant by it.

Similarly....the purpose of my spiritual journey is not about holding fast to what "is right for me." This would suggest that I limit my commitment to God and that I am only comfortable in doing that which is easy (or requires "less effort" on my part). But rather, the trials I am asked to travel cause me to stretch daily in my commitment towards becoming a better person than I was the day before.

loverofhumanity · Dec 29, 2016

Shadow Wolf said:
Some of us do see that as a good thing.

That would be accurate as far as I know. I mean, I can't say it has literally always been used that way, but there are more than enough examples of it happening over the last ~2000 years to estimate it probably is correct.

The Holy Books all call man to shun evil and do that which is good. To be of good character, to be just and noble. It is man's turning away from these noble teachings of the Holy Books and only following priests and blind dogma that is irreligion.

But we should discriminate and have a discerning eye between what the Holy Books teach and what the leaders of religion teach. We should refrain from designating the baby and the bath water as one and the same because they are not.

True religion exalts man whereas blindly following dogma causes him to become evil. Dogma is not religion.

Who does God want the Antichrist to be?

Well-Known Member

Member

Learning more about Jehovah.

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Learning more about Jehovah.

Certified People sTabber

Certified People sTabber

Well-Known Member

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

I am a Monotheistic Deist

Member

Member

Member

Member

We are all the leaves of one tree